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45s rushing low level dungeon bosses


Kugai

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I've noticed a problem recently in Blackram Narrows and Tomb of the Exiles, where costume farming 45s are rushing through and killing the final boss before the lower level party members can get into the last gate.  This results in the low level people, who actually need the equipment upgrades, getting screwed out of the boss rewards.  In the case of Tomb of Exiles, it also means they get caught in the hallway fires that pop when the boss is engaged even when they do make it into the last area.

 

Anyone know if the Eastern BnS versions have fixed this issue?  If not, I'd really like to see a party finder option to filter party by level range.  I don't know about anyone else, but max level players griefing the low level dungeons is starting to turn me off to the game, especially when arena PVP is nearly unplayable now due to bots.

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1. You don't have to "kill the boss yourself" to get the drops, and quest completion in both dungeons. (So even if they rush the bosses, and you fall behind you can get the stuff, and make bids, turn in quest, ect...)

 

2. I highly doubt all the high levels are doing it to grief lower levels. 

In fact most do BRN for the costume, and ToE for the costume/Daily to get soulstones. 

 

If you do not have to "fight" the mobs and the high level is, then how are you falling behind? 

 

Plus, I know I myself as a lvl 45, when I do BRN I try to keep the lowbies alive, and just wish they'd not attack anything really. I dont bid on the shields, gear, I leave it for the lowbies, and expect them to do no work. (100% fine for me.) Though most do hit things I try to turn non stop to prevent them from dying. 

 

In Inferno, the ONLY time I see where something might "grief" a player is going to the terracotta general, or the last boss, as those 2 do start fire. For terracotta general, watch your party if you see them at it, do NOT portal to the area till the fire is down, and then you can just sprint to catch up.  Most high levels wont bother with the spider, so if you do that its your fault for falling behind in the 1st place. 

 

It sounds more like you got into a party where the people were farming for the accessories to break down, rather than a party doing their daily/farming outfits. 

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I cant speak on blackram narrows as the only time I do it is to help others but as for Tomb of Exiles I agree there's a decent amount of people who do like to rush ahead. I've even died as a 45 in there to another 45 who wanted to set us all on fire lol. The only time I do start a boss (terracotta)  without the whole party is when I see one or two people in the treasure room then I know its safe-they're going to  be a minute anyway. So I go ahead and kill. Only thing that annoys me in that dungeon is when there are 45's trying to run ahead and SS doors or when some class is bidding on the wrong purple weapon X D  

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If you get a bunch of level 45 or even just 1 in low level dungeon, follow closely, don't attack mobs unnecessary, since they are running ahead they will have the agro so you can still sprint as long as you don't get into combat.


As for the hall of fire, don't release, stay dead till the boss died and you can still get the loots, if you release and the boss died at the same time you won't get it.

 

I do run these dungeon on my high level from time to time, and I do rush, but I will stop at each boss so that others can catch up and if I see them in trouble I will help them kill the mobs. If I really want to do it quickly I just solo run it, why join a party if your intention is to just rush through, you are level 45, soloing narrows and tombs are easy and you get all the loots for yourself too. I don't understand high level that goes into a low level dungeon with party of low level, then rush and leaving the low level behind and causing problem for them.

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18 minutes ago, Mishi said:

1. You don't have to "kill the boss yourself" to get the drops, and quest completion in both dungeons. (So even if they rush the bosses, and you fall behind you can get the stuff, and make bids, turn in quest, ect...)

 

Correct.  However, if they kill the boss before you even make it into the gate to the area where the boss is, then you get neither loot nor the boss quest.

 

23 minutes ago, Mishi said:

2. I highly doubt all the high levels are doing it to grief lower levels. 

In fact most do BRN for the costume, and ToE for the costume/Daily to get soulstones. 

 

Regardless of intent, if a 45 rushes a lower level dungeon and doesn't wait for party members before killing the boss, they have made the choice to kill party members in the zone but not at the boss yet, and to screw party members not in the zone yet out of loot and mission credit.  Thats pretty much the definition of griefing.  Note that they even have incentive to do it - If they can drop the boss before people get to the area, they have less (or no if they are fast enough) competition should a costume piece drop.  That being said, we even asked one of them to wait for the party and the response was, "I don't care".

 

28 minutes ago, Mishi said:

If you do not have to "fight" the mobs and the high level is, then how are you falling behind? 

 

Thats the problem - The people who are the appropriate level for the dungeon do have to fight the mobs, or get beat to death as we try to run by.  All it takes is 1 hit to cancel sprint, or the 45 engaging the boss to prevent you from sprinting.  However, the major delay is bidding on loot.  Costume farmers can care less about the breakthrough equipment and soul shards so they aren't waiting to bid. Making it to the zone 2 of ToE in time to bid on that bosses loot isn't a problem, but by the time the bidding is done the last boss has been dropped in zone 3 and I get nothing.

 

This isn't an isolated event for me - In the last two weeks I've had it happen multiple times per dungeon, across several different characters.  I appreciate that YOU may not do this, but other 45s do and its been getting worse as more people get up to max level.

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8 minutes ago, Kugai said:

snip

I've been stuck at the beginning of the dungeon and still obtained loot and quest credit. (From the dungeon boss kill.)

(Not just ToE, but it also works for many other dungeons, hence the complaints about AFK'ing people in Ogong/Skittering/Brightstone, ect..where bots/gold sellers afk for the loot/money at the spawn of the dungeon.)

 

As for "keeping up" If the high level is running ahead, then they should be the ones with the aggro correct? 

 

 

Edit:

Nvm, I just realized, the "bosses" you're speaking of, are the mini bosses, not the actual boss in the dungeon. The mini ones, are ones you kill to go to the next area. The dungeon boss is the last boss you kill to complete the dungeon.

 

Sorry I didn't realize you were speaking about the mini-bosses at first, I thought you were speaking about the actual dungeon boss. 

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52 minutes ago, vita said:

If you get a bunch of level 45 or even just 1 in low level dungeon, follow closely, don't attack mobs unnecessary, since they are running ahead they will have the agro so you can still sprint as long as you don't get into combat.

 

Thats not always possible.  Getting beat on aside, bidding on loot is the main delay.

 

52 minutes ago, vita said:

As for the hall of fire, don't release, stay dead till the boss died and you can still get the loots, if you release and the boss died at the same time you won't get it.

 

The hall of fire isn't a problem.  I could deal if it was just someone being inconsiderate (not like death has much of a downside in the game) since I still get loot and quest completion.

 

52 minutes ago, vita said:

I do run these dungeon on my high level from time to time, and I do rush, but I will stop at each boss so that others can catch up and if I see them in trouble I will help them kill the mobs. If I really want to do it quickly I just solo run it, why join a party if your intention is to just rush through, you are level 45, soloing narrows and tombs are easy and you get all the loots for yourself too. I don't understand high level that goes into a low level dungeon with party of low level, then rush and leaving the low level behind and causing problem for them.

 

You're a decent sort, but a lot of other people aren't.  If people who are able to handle it alone and just want to rush would solo instead of queuing for group, this wouldn't be a problem.

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26 minutes ago, Mishi said:

(Brilliant idea on the snip thing - easy to reply without the wall of text!)

 

I'm referring to the actual dungeon bosses in BN and ToE.  Those dungeons have multiple zone separations.  If you don't make it into the final zone before the boss is killed, you get nothing.  You don't have to be at the boss itself to get the quest and loot, but you do have to have passed the gate into their zone.  

 

Join a ToE and wait for the party to kill the boss before entering the last zone and you'll see what I mean.  Its happened to me so many times I've lost count now (EDIT: Ok, thats an exaggeration - probably around 10x in the last 2 weeks), and I know its not just my game bugging as other people in my PUGs have had the same result.

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27 minutes ago, Kugai said:

snip

Well sadly you can not control how everyone plays, but it does sound like you have very bad luck in finding a considerate party. Im not sure if a level filter will be put in or not, however do you know anyone else around your level that you can invite to run with? Or have you started a party and advertised it as being one for specific levels?

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I have a level 45 character, I do these low lvl dungeons but see to it that lowbies will not miss the experience going through.
I patiently wait etc etc. I even let them finish the final boss for experience sake and go in if they are having a hard time.

Coincidentally, I also have a lowbie character and I always hope that a high level character would join the run for fast clear up of dgn.

Hope you get more lucky next time. And if ever you met another impatient party high level character, communicate with him and warn to report. It works 90% of the time he will behave properly I bet.

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1 minute ago, Mishi said:

Report on what basis though?

(I'm curious as to what you'd be reporting for?)

 

Running to fast? Killing to quickly? (I don't know.)

High Level player going through low level dungeons zerging through boss making all the party members repeatedly die.

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when i run those instances i always make sure that nobodys gonna get killed if i pull something and always let people make it to the boss before i smash it. 

 

i do move on and clear without the party though, and will pull the small no drop bosses if nobody is near where the fire spawns.

 

ive flown thorough that gate before into the fire. i know how that feels lol. i have just made it a habit to walk in and stop just in case. look at the map if the blimp is moving don't move just wait lol. it pisses me off when im running to that boss and i get flamed but i can honestly say i alway check the map before i pull that. because it bugs me so i wouldn't do it to anyone else.

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4 minutes ago, Bumlife said:

High Level player going through low level dungeons zerging through boss making all the party members repeatedly die.

Somehow I doubt that'd be something to get a high level player banned or in trouble for. 

Unless the high level waits for you to hit the "fire zone" then attacks, repeatedly, every time the low level respawns and runs back. Losing aggro of the boss each time, to re-aggro once the low level is back in range. (Though with that you'd be better off sending a ticket and including video evidence, as the higher level could also state you were running into the fire repeatedly to get them in trouble, so NCsoft would want proof of the report to validate it.)

 

Speed running a dungeon isn't bannable, being high level in a low level dungeon isn't bannable, and rushing to bosses without killing all mobs isn't bannable. 

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6 minutes ago, Mishi said:

Somehow I doubt that'd be something to get a high level player banned or in trouble for. 

Unless the high level waits for you to hit the "fire zone" then attacks, repeatedly, every time the low level respawns and runs back. Losing aggro of the boss each time, to re-aggro once the low level is back in range. (Though with that you'd be better off sending a ticket and including video evidence, as the higher level could also state you were running into the fire repeatedly to get them in trouble, so NCsoft would want proof of the report to validate it.)

 

Speed running a dungeon isn't bannable, being high level in a low level dungeon isn't bannable, and rushing to bosses without killing all mobs isn't bannable. 

 

By doing that in the two mention dungeon above, the high level can potentially cause the low level players not getting any loots due do the dungeon having different areas that you need to load into. This can be considered as griefing.

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11 minutes ago, vita said:

 

By doing that in the two mention dungeon above, the high level can potentially cause the low level players not getting any loots due do the dungeon having different areas that you need to load into. This can be considered as griefing.

Maybe if it is the same high level every time and purposely causing all they ever run dungeons to loose all loot. 

Though chances are slim for getting a high level into trouble, as many would have to report the same high level over and over, and it be from different instances, not 5 people reporting from the same run. :/

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I never had a problem with higher levels in a dungeon, almost everyone I meet on infernal lord and blackram are nice people that waits lmao. The only people that dont wait are douchebag assassins, I tend to hold back on my assassin when i spam the dungeon. Just make sure to bid on loot fast and keep track of where the highlevel are in the dungeon. I normally only take the nessasary items from there, if i dont get the rest I just go cross-server again either, the weapon box is the highest prio for me so i always make myself the way to the last boss with the high level peps. (some assassins are annoying for skipping some mobs, but meh, atleast we dont have people staying outside and bidding on loot)

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44 minutes ago, Bumlife said:

I have a level 45 character, I do these low lvl dungeons but see to it that lowbies will not miss the experience going through.
I patiently wait etc etc. I even let them finish the final boss for experience sake and go in if they are having a hard time.

Coincidentally, I also have a lowbie character and I always hope that a high level character would join the run for fast clear up of dgn.

Hope you get more lucky next time. And if ever you met another impatient party high level character, communicate with him and warn to report. It works 90% of the time he will behave properly I bet.

Thats a wild assumption, you really cant report for this and it shouldnt be reported. the cross server are fast to find parties anyway so just follow the wave.

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That answer was based on the question what makes it report-able, and intentionally causing one or more players not getting their loots should be report-able. I think as high level they should know by know that killing a boss while the other players are still in another area, those players would not get the loots that drop.

 

Here is the thing, you queue for a low level dungeon, but you run off on your own and leaving others behind, why? Since you clearly do not want to wait, why not just run it solo?

You get into a party with a bunch of low levels who clearly would fall behind if you do not help them with clearing thrash mobs, who clearly would fall behind if you rush ahead, killing mini bosses, causing fire hall to spawn, you clearly know all this but you still do it, is that not intentionally griefing?

 

I do not know how often somethings like this happens, as I do not run low level dungeons often, if I do I just solo it myself.

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4 hours ago, Mishi said:

1. You don't have to "kill the boss yourself" to get the drops, and quest completion in both dungeons. (So even if they rush the bosses, and you fall behind you can get the stuff, and make bids, turn in quest, ect...)

This is only true if you're in the same zone as the boss. Some people in ToE go for the side room while others zerg Infernal Lord to death. In one party I (a level 45 HM5) spammed party chat to stop attacking the boss because people were still in the side room and what do they do? Ignore me and continue rushing the boss. He dies, the person in the side room gets no loot nor the quest completion.

 

It's very, very rude to abandon party mates and essentially force them to rerun the dungeon, all because people have the mindset of "patience is for losers".

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I myself have two lv45s and sadly I've ran into other lv45s that just want to rush through ToE. I've seen them rushing to the first mini boss and just kill the guards by the door, waiting. Funny thing is that killing the guards don't open the door, you have to clear the mobs on the way. But no, these lv45s just want to standby at the door w/o helping out.

 

I really don't understand what is the point of rushing then? They just want to be lazy, they rush and rush, engage fights w/o minding the party members left behind and burn in fire. And you can't even kick these idiots, what is up with that?

 

Some of the game mechanics need work...

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On my main I never really experienced this since I started in January and only a few were 45.
But when I made my alt few weeks ago I was actually grateful that there are higher levels in blackram and ToE. Makes the run much much faster and it's easier to get the equips needed since they pretty much skip the bid for bopaes. 

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On 3/2/2016 at 7:31 AM, Kugai said:

 

Correct.  However, if they kill the boss before you even make it into the gate to the area where the boss is, then you get neither loot nor the boss quest.

 

 

The only way to not get  past the gate in time is if you spent way to much time on bids, I really hate when lowbies just  sit there and battle in copper over an item, I've seen it  they were 1 copper  waited 6s  bided 1 copper and so on, seriously   there is no  way to not pass in time the last gate, just because you  and the rest drag the party, I have seen  low lvls in my party that kept up until  the teracota boss  when everybody is at that damn spider ( you guys know that  triangulars are like 1-2 silver at most ?  and by that lvl you should have at least square gem on wep) ...    also if you don't want high lvl in your pt just go  to the totem near the dg  if you want high lvls just go to cross-server, no  high lvl will teleport to the dungeon.  

 

Also if they implement the  lvl filter I would be so glad  no more under lvl 45  in the last 4 blue dungeons leeching the drops xp and gold.

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The problem is that you can`t enter dungeon solo from dungeon lobby. Just make that possible and this problem will disappear. 45s go through lobby to avoid porting to dungeon and then going back where they were.

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21 minutes ago, Dlacik said:

The problem is that you can`t enter dungeon solo from dungeon lobby. Just make that possible and this problem will disappear. 45s go through lobby to avoid porting to dungeon and then going back where they were.

This is correct and is why I generally use the Cross Server when doing dungeons. It's much easier and cheaper than teleporting everywhere.

 

Though, if I am farming for an outfit somewhere when we all get inside the lobby area I will drop and then they can replace me right at the beginning. People will tend to stay especially if it's a run right at the beginning. Only time I stay for the run and just run through it is if I'm doing the daily, and typically only zerg if I see another high level in the party as well. That way more things can be handled if need be.

 

BRN I had ran recently during that White Rose event since BRN was one of the dungeons that gave it, which could be why you saw more lvl 45's there if on a lowbie. 

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