Bots are killing this game let's talk about removing them

[Ebrietaz]

6 minutes ago, Phorni said:

Too costly in the running of the company,  the capitalist owner boards will nvr agree if the price paid to mods expected exceeds 35% of their gains from eliminating bots by mods

Actually, moderators don't have to be paid.

A lot of moderators I have seen in other games and forums recruit moderators as volunteers.

[Shiroaka]

@Hime A  captcha after changing region ( windstride, going to arena, cross serv ), not on some random or time set demand, would be a very annoying but i think really usefull. It can be even your acc ping window, or to not use it too often, new, secound pin with same random numbers tab.

[Phorni]

2 minutes ago, Ebrietaz said:

Actually, moderators don't have to be paid.

A lot of moderators I have seen in other games and forums recruit moderators as volunteers.

So err the volunteer also can access server control powers in game? :O

[Phorni]

5 minutes ago, Meerkat said:

 

What, no, it's easy.

 

NCSoft owns the game.  If they setup the infrastructure, they can track every single transaction.  Every single person you've traded with, every single person you've bought from or sold to via the marketplace.  You don't even have to have advanced algorithms to attempt to discover fraudulent or suspicious transactions.  Just trace every single transaction.

The idea of suspicious transactions usually turn to haunt players who doesn't pay money for the game lol. As free players tend to buy cheap items which is also sourced by bots normally and in the end free players bought it from some random player who turned out to be a bot  lol at that rate do you delete the item or not? If you do then off the player cannot prove they bought it from a player not a bot  so at that point do they get their money back if you delete the item?  If they do bots can still abuse it, if you don't might as well make the game pay to play XD 

[Ebrietaz]

2 minutes ago, Phorni said:

So err the volunteer also can access server control powers in game? :O

I do not know how it works, honestly.

I am sure they can limit the control moderators have. (Having a few extra buttons in-game to mute players, ban them, etc.)

[Hime]

As you all are aware, the bots in game is one of our top priorities. Bots will continue to evolve their tactics (as you have seen) and we also have to adjust to that as well and we are/are in the process.

 

5 minutes ago, Shiroaka said:

@Hime A  captcha after changing region ( windstride, going to arena, cross serv ), not on some random or time set demand, would be a very annoying but i think really usefull. It can be even your acc ping window, or to not use it too often, new, secound pin with same random numbers tab.

 

It isn't a bad idea, but I also think it has some pain points for legitimate players as well.

[DarkShirou]

I play on my alt now (destroyer) and I just won 8 matches in a row against bot destroyers. Now I'm in gold rank and I don't even know how to play my class yet. It's like way from silver to gold is completely swarmed with bots. I wrote a ticket to the support, and they responded that they are "aware of the problem".  But I don't know how much aware they are when I see bots lvl 45 HM 3 in dungeons, 1v1, 3v3 stealing off quartz and abusing the market on a daily basis.

[Phorni]

1 minute ago, Ebrietaz said:

I do not know how it works, honestly.

I am sure they can limit the control moderators have. (Having a few extra buttons in-game to mute players, ban them, etc.)

I don't think volunteer mods can ban accounts I think they are only allowed to report them directly to an employee of the game company who will check it up and follow up with a decision.  

 

Because if volunteer mods can ban people then it might get abused 

[Zel]

Just now, Phorni said:

I don't think volunteer mods can ban accounts I think they are only allowed to report them directly to an employee of the game company who will check it up and follow up with a decision.  

 

Because if volunteer mods can ban people then it might get abused 

 

An in game VFM basically gets priority reports, if they flag a player as a Bot/Spammer etc. that report goes right to the top of the list. They (typically) do not have outright ban/kill privileges. Muting is available usually though. Forum VFM's are a different matter, their control is everything except a lifetime ban.

[Ebrietaz]

Just now, Phorni said:

I don't think volunteer mods can ban accounts I think they are only allowed to report them directly to an employee of the game company who will check it up and follow up with a decision.  

 

Because if volunteer mods can ban people then it might get abused 

Like I mentioned, I have no idea how it works. ):

 

That seems reasonable, and I guess for a temp fix after reporting to staff is to have an option in-game to disconnect the bots from the game. o:

[OmniBlade]

2 minutes ago, Hime said:

As you all are aware, the bots in game is one of our top priorities. Bots will continue to evolve their tactics (as you have seen) and we also have to adjust to that as well and we are/are in the process.

 

 

It isn't a bad idea, but I also think it has some pain points for legitimate players as well.

It may be a minor irritation but I think many would agree to this rather than let the bot's ruin the game Hime.....

[Meerkat]

13 minutes ago, Phorni said:

The idea of suspicious transactions usually turn to haunt players who doesn't pay money for the game lol. As free players tend to buy cheap items which is also sourced by bots normally and in the end free players bought it from some random player who turned out to be a bot  lol at that rate do you delete the item or not? If you do then off the player cannot prove they bought it from a player not a bot  so at that point do they get their money back if you delete the item?  If they do bots can still abuse it, if you don't might as well make the game pay to play XD 

 

Cheap items sourced by bots still exist ultimately to generate ingame currency to eventually be sold for real money.  Nobody cares if a bot is selling ten unsealing charms at 12 s profit total.  That's no different at all from a legitimate transaction.

 

But where are all those profits going?  Is the bot constantly mailing that gold out without receiving anything in return?  What if that bot is being supplied by a bot that was recently caught by a GM and banned?  Or regularly makes transactions with other known bots?  Hmm, suspicious, suspicious, citrus suspicious.

[Phorni]

Just now, Meerkat said:

 

Cheap items sourced by bots still exist ultimately to generate ingame currency to eventually be sold for real money.  Those would be legitimate transactions regardless.

but when someone sells gold for real money yet the seller and buyer both argues that they know each other from Facebook or another source, how can you trace this because like myself some other games which I play with people I actually know I help them at times with free items amounts of gold etc one cannot really distinguish if the two knew each other previously or not as sometimes I've personally gave free stuff to online friend who I barely knew for more than a couple of days XD but that also depends on the person etc but you get my idea

[Meerkat]

1 hour ago, Phorni said:

but when someone sells gold for real money yet the seller and buyer both argues that they know each other from Facebook or another source, how can you trace this because like myself some other games which I play with people I actually know I help them at times with free items amounts of gold etc one cannot really distinguish if the two knew each other previously or not as sometimes I've personally gave free stuff to online friend who I barely knew for more than a couple of days XD but that also depends on the person etc but you get my idea

 

Friends help each other out a few times a year.  If "your friend" seems awfully generous and has ties to a few other "players" who were caught and banned by a GM patrolling for bots... hmm, suspicious, suspicious, citrus suspicious.

 

The key thing here you have to remember is this is not an entirely automated system.  Algorithms will work, but having GM's patrol for bots, but not immediately banning those bots ( letting the bots build up their networks ) is very important.

 

If it sounds like a bot, if it smells like a bot... it's probably a bot.

[Phorni]

8 minutes ago, Hime said:

As you all are aware, the bots in game is one of our top priorities. Bots will continue to evolve their tactics (as you have seen) and we also have to adjust to that as well and we are/are in the process.

 

 

It isn't a bad idea, but I also think it has some pain points for legitimate players as well.

I would rather having to type some random number outside of combat flow than seeing bots swarming the market and then the game falls apart due to bots : 3

[Phorni]

1 minute ago, Meerkat said:

 

You help out your friends a few times a year.  If "your friend" seems awfully generous and has ties to a few other "players" who were caught and banned by a GM patrolling for bots... hmm, suspicious, suspicious, citrus suspicious.

 

If it sounds like a bot, if it smells like a bot... it's probably a bot.

I understand this concept of one person giving stuff freely to a mass a mount of dif players then ya most likely its a bot, but bots don't give gold to players on same account 

[Hime]

2 minutes ago, Phorni said:

I would rather having to type some random number outside of combat flow than seeing bots swarming the market and then the game falls apart due to bots : 3

 

10 minutes ago, OmniBlade said:

It may be a minor irritation but I think many would agree to this rather than let the bot's ruin the game Hime.....

 

Understandable. To be clear, I'm not saying we're not taking this issue seriously. I'm just throwing out more details for your consideration. We completely understand our players are passionate and want to see the game continue to be successful. We share the same sentiment and again, one of our top priorities in addressing and improving as well.

[Phorni]

2 minutes ago, Hime said:

 

 

Understandable. To be clear, I'm not saying we're not taking this issue seriously. I'm just throwing out more details for your consideration. We completely understand our players are passionate and want to see the game continue to be successful. We share the same sentiment and again, one of our top priorities in addressing and improving as well.

I only want to see if ideas from the player base of the game can offer help towards addressing this situation as I personally am not very inventive but I know there are plenty of people with ideas to help and are willing to help if given the chance be some ideas wild or not it might still make the process faster XD

 

Although I kept countering w.e. idea people come up with when they do I hope these cons will help make a better system XD 

[RuneYlva]

Bots have also learned to use Cross Server dungeon mode and know how to recruit and change loot options. Just look at this!!! 

 

Some of them are also beginning to use non-random names that seem to be done in a name generator. Notable they's random summoners that walk around in the exact same path and do the exact same combos while farming field bosses. Just look at the AH and you'll see how essences are in crazy listings of like 50 stacks for pages and pages. 

[angelcots]

I know there are a lot of posts about this already... but I want to help to send NCSoft the message. I didn't notice bots for the longest time in game play. The first time I really noticed them was in Moonwater Plains a few weeks ago. But now they are EVERYWHERE! PvE, arenas, dungeons, ugh! I can't avoid them. They are annoying. And now people are saying that they are the reason the marketplace's prices are so high! Apparently bots are the reason that crafting isn't worth it anymore. There must be some kind of barrier or report system or something for getting rid of these things. NCsoft should do something soon before there are more bots than there are players.

[Phorni]

@RuneYlva  the bots have been in cross server for a while already but yes they are becoming more and more trouble 

[Rawrzory]

5 minutes ago, RuneYlva said:

Bots have also learned to use Cross Server dungeon mode and know how to recruit and change loot options. Just look at this!!! 

 

Some of them are also beginning to use non-random names that seem to be done in a name generator. Notable they's random summoners that walk around in the exact same path and do the exact same combos while farming field bosses. Just look at the AH and you'll see how essences are in crazy listings of like 50 stacks for pages and pages. 

 

Well that does seem like it's getting slightly out of control ... 

[Phorni]

2 minutes ago, Rawrzory said:

 

Well that does seem like it's getting slightly out of control ... 

Wait until u switch 5 channel and all u find are bots in the region <3 that picture is more amusing than annoying XD

 

And orz I couldn't post this reply when I clicked it cos timer hahaha

[Rancub]

Just make gold untradeable and unmailable. Gold can only be used to buy from marketplace or merchants.

[Rawrzory]

2 minutes ago, Rancub said:

Just make gold untradeable and unmailable. Gold can only be used to buy from marketplace or merchants.

 

I'm thinking hard why this wouldn't be a good idea, but the only thing i can come up with is "but what if i want to give some gold to a friend". This might actually not be that bad.