Remove firewalls and sentry orbs from dungeons.

[pingal1ty]

21 hours ago, DrowningEarth said:

 

 

Hypothetical situation. You are in a 4-man BSH/Poh group. You are right outside Poharan's or the Widow Twins' room and one of your team members, a FM, is 15-30 seconds behind due to getting hit/stunned by mobs along the way, or unable to windwalk due to being stuck in combat mode.

 

Do you press the attack or wait?

I wait, off course.

 

Anyway I don't know where you want to go with this question tbh. I can also be a moron and attack the boss and laugh seeing him die in the fire, but obviously is not the case, and I guess that's what mostly happens in 6mans, so the discussion turns back to what I said at the beginning, be faster next time and don't waste peoples time, you won't get killed by the fire that way.

[Riliane]

15 hours ago, Partholonian said:

 

It's his fault he's trolling, but it's also NC's fault they're giving him such great tools to troll with.  It couldn't happen without *both* the attitude of being willing to troll, *and* the game systems that allow the trolling to be successful.  And even if NC can't stop the one they certainly can stop the other; that's what this thread is about.

 

Read the entire message, please. That's why I said "a timer would be great" :)

[DrowningEarth]

1 hour ago, pingal1ty said:

I wait, off course.

 

Anyway I don't know where you want to go with this question tbh. I can also be a moron and attack the boss and laugh seeing him die in the fire, but obviously is not the case, and I guess that's what mostly happens in 6mans, so the discussion turns back to what I said at the beginning, be faster next time and don't waste peoples time, you won't get killed by the fire that way.

And what if someone else in your group doesn't wait?

 

My point is this: morons who rush the boss are the issue, not the "slow people." The slow people are only trying to get there to put in their share of the effort. There are a number of reasons people may not be in the room at the same time (mobs/stuck in combat, etc).

 

Often times people are only behind by a matter of seconds. Freaking seconds. I can't imagine how these morons would make it through real life, especially sitting through a useless 2-hour office meeting or being in the army and standing in formation waiting an hour for the company commander to arrive (which I've had plenty of).

 

There are a number of better mechanics to prevent people from resurrecting and zerging the boss. The firewall is not one of them. A timed wall works, or simply disabling #4 respawn/resurrect when the boss is being engaged.

[NueHoujuu]

I guess the airlock idea where you can't engage boss until everyone is in a pre-room, and you can't get back in if you die, might be worth noting.

 

But if people don't get into the airlock fast enough, then the people waiting can go in ahead of whoever is straggling. Then it still works like the initial suggestion on op.

[Hrefna]

Just ran into a troll tonight who used the firewall to kill most of the rest of the party in Tomb of the Exiles.   She/he did it on purpose, then proceeded to laugh and insult the rest of the party.   It's just too precious a griefing tool for these tools to use--their sociopathic little minds just can't resist it, apparently.  And since it's capable of doing preventable harm and any possible goals it serves could be met by less harsh methods, it should be changed.  In FFXIV, a force field shows up and gives you like 20 seconds to get in or out.  What's wrong with that?  You're achieving the goal of getting people to move or be left out, but not penalizing people who for whatever reason are a few seconds too slow.

 

For everyone saying that "it's been that way in Korea for four years, deal with it," I'm willing to bet it's much less of a problem over there where the culture and p2p model keep the shitbags more at arm's length.  We don't have that in our wonderful laissez faire "individual is king put up or shut up stop whining and suck it up society," so we need some more protection here to save us from the worst angels of our nature. 

 

My own preference would be for the firewall to kill the ADHD *cricket* rusher, but that's probably asking too much.

[Morcra]

wait are people actually against this? why would u be against this. I mean its fine. i was late, maybe that was their fault or my fault, either way, dont effing kill me for not being able to fight. all that does is break my weapon more and start me allll over. its bs. just put a door preventing u from going inside.

 

jesus 

[vasilisd]

My life wont be wasted if I wait a couple of seconds or even a minute for the whole group to enter the room...doing a low lvl dungeon with  a high level char firstly helps low lvl players that struggle in it and secondly is for the daily rewards..

 If i enter a room and wait for others and someone else rushes and kills those still outside,i think i can make his life harder for a while by not helping him with the boss...just hit 1,2 times and then fall back and watch him solo the boss..

if he thinks he can gain some few seconds of his life by leaving the rest behind let him spend them by soloing the boss...

 

I dont expect from the devs to change something in game...i find my ways to make a difference and cooperate as much as i can in a situation that requires cooperation...thats why its called a group dungeon...

[Prototypemind]

This is just one of the many things in this game that makes people hostile/less than friendly towards each other. No pulses to quick travel inside the instances plus instant kills for those arriving late cause people to be less and less patient.

 

Had a group earlier where one person dc'd. We'd already cleared 3/4 bosses, but part of the group tried to vote kick. She reconnected, but it was literally a close to 10 min run from the entrance back to where we were so some of the group went ahead and pulled. If she'd gotten in range she still would have gotten the loot and daily, but it can be a near thing, Regardless, the flame walls and orbs are a very bad mechanic when it comes to encouraging group play.

[NueHoujuu]

I was doing poh6 and we were running to mak sobo, everyone was pretty much on my tail as the door opened so I ran in and jumped the boss.

 

And for some damn reason everyone who was running right behind me stops right outside the door and catches on fire, so I have to go kill myself and let everyone in.

[GenesisAria]

If someone dies and is stuck outside the instance portal, then they get no credit for the fight.

[Kadirra]

+1

 

I support this idea. The fire wall of death is so unnecessary and can be used to grief people because 'it's funny' to some.

[AgentX]

On ‎2‎/‎17‎/‎2016 at 8:45 AM, NueHoujuu said:

Just bloating up one of the suggestions from the megathread in my signature...

 

But those firewalls are annoying and pointless. Why do we have to be insta killed for not getting into the room if someone rushes ahead of all of us, or if we just happen to lag, or if we eat a dumpling to heal at the wrong place?

 

Please replace the firewalls with this type of door.

 

Don't forget to make the door appear different for each player. The door should allow everyone to pass it once. If you die and respawn outside of it, it becomes the red door and you can't go back in until all party members have beaten the boss or died to the boss.

 

If one player dies and respawns, he should see the red door - while another player who hasn't even gotten into the boss room once, should see a different open version of the door.

 

This is to prevent players from telling someone to wait outside the door so they can "keep the door open for people who died to come back in for infinite lives". Must be on a player to player basis.

 

Edit: Another good suggestion that has been brought up is to start with an open door that everyone can see, and once the boss fight is initiated by anyone, it says "Boss Fight Started - The gate will close in 1 minute." and then becomes the red door after that time. Only once everyone dies and respawns will it become a normal door again.

 

Edit 2: 

Also just to note, I am all for boss fights on plateaus with no safety guards on the side, or the thing Darkglimpse did with enemies that spawn in a dark chi kill zone.

 

I am also all for having some kind of death pit or fire wall inside the boss room itself that the boss can throw you into as long as that isn't the official way the game is trying to lock you out of re-entering the room again and again. Like if the Tomb of Exiles's final boss, if it roar also pushed you back and were able to knock you into lava, I'd be totally cool with it.

 

Not for mouse traps that are only there for rushing players to spring on you.

 

Sometimes I'm a few meters behind someone and we're both sprinting, so I have no way to catch up to him, and while I'd love for every player in the game to be nice and wait for me, the person rushes and gets me killed when I'm only a few meters behind him.

Simple: NO.

[khynnea]

On 2/23/2016 at 8:50 PM, pingal1ty said:

As said in previous post, how about no? The fire is there for a reason, why change it to something that should alert you?

 

A 12 year old boy also can tell you that if whoever invented this mechanic didn't think about it when designing it then its because it was ment to be like this.

 

Just get over it, the fire is like it is, deal or quit, and not being rude with you or something, but I am really surprised that people come into the forum to whine for something that is really stupid, you guys have time to complain for this thing better complain for the bots, the scammers, the marketplace being sabotaged by few very rich players and other stuff that I do believe its 100x more important than a fire that just killed you, for freak sake.

A 12 year old boy is going to *remind* you how school yard etiquette works, and that bullies are going to exploit the system ... period.

 

If the firewall can be exploited to grief other players, it will be. Same as the way looting worked initially.

 

"Get over it or quit" is a toxic response that will ultimately kill a game that has a lot of positives, a good game, with a good story and that brings enough innovation to the market that a lot of people are on the forums passionately arguing for the things that they think will help the game in one way or another.

 

Yes, we all know that fire is still hot. Hopefully it will be for a really long time. It's for that very reason that it shouldn't be used for a mechanic to control access to boss fights.

 

If it isn't clear, I wholeheartedly agree that a more sensible mechanic should be implemented, one that isn't going to be used to grief players, but I'm fine with one that doesn't facilitate exploiting. If something else can't be implemented then maybe they can implement a way to report people for griefing.

 

 

[AgentX]

19 minutes ago, khynnea said:

A 12 year old boy is going to *remind* you how school yard etiquette works, and that bullies are going to exploit the system ... period.

 

If the firewall can be exploited to grief other players, it will be. Same as the way looting worked initially.

 

"Get over it or quit" is a toxic response that will ultimately kill a game that has a lot of positives, a good game, with a good story and that brings enough innovation to the market that a lot of people are on the forums passionately arguing for the things that they think will help the game in one way or another.

 

Yes, we all know that fire is still hot. Hopefully it will be for a really long time. It's for that very reason that it shouldn't be used for a mechanic to control access to boss fights.

 

If it isn't clear, I wholeheartedly agree that a more sensible mechanic should be implemented, one that isn't going to be used to grief players, but I'm fine with one that doesn't facilitate exploiting. If something else can't be implemented then maybe they can implement a way to report people for griefing.

 

 

U fight bullies with a bull.

Term toxic is modern age coined term and therefore means nothing, or more like not even exist in this contest.

This game is: Bots & Dailies, so I don't see what's good, positive.... good story? I hope for your mental health you don't really think story here is good.

Market is controlled by ncsoft bots.

Fire Is used to prevent people who didn't contribute to entire run to just come at the end for loot.

I wonder why people like this even try: "more sensible mechanic should be implemented"... like you really have huge confidence if you think that you could do better

then someone at least half experienced as people who work for NCsoft.

 

 

[DrowningEarth]

13 minutes ago, AgentX said:

U fight bullies with a bull.

Term toxic is modern age coined term and therefore means nothing, or more like not even exist in this contest.

This game is: Bots & Dailies, so I don't see what's good, positive.... good story? I hope for your mental health you don't really think story here is good.

Market is controlled by ncsoft bots.

Fire Is used to prevent people who didn't contribute to entire run to just come at the end for loot.

I wonder why people like this even try: "more sensible mechanic should be implemented"... like you really have huge confidence if you think that you could do better

then someone at least half experienced as people who work for NCsoft.

 

 

Incorrect. Fire doesn't stop Bots/AFK's from joining Brightstone/Dokumo/Ogong/Pigsty - which is why some are doing semi-organized groups for these instead of using the auto-search.

 

Fire does NOT prevent non-contributors from getting loot. They still have access to bids/dynamic rewards, as well as the proportionate share of gold from auction bids.

[Oxygen]

Idk if someone else already suggested that but I think a good idea instead of fire wall would be:

 

First change:Instantly teleporting (moving) all players inside boss room once boss fight is initiated and no player will be able to release after dying till the boss dies or reset but can only be revived by other party members.(Or making players able to windstride there once)

 

Second change:someone said that they should make only those who did a certain % of damage on boss have access to loot and bid (it can be little % so it wont be unfair for lower geared players).This change is nice but first change (or something alike) is required in order to make second change fair and prevent a more harmful type of trolling.