BestCatGirl

"it's only 40 copper"

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Asuka   

Of course, that's what I'm saying all along:) That's why I posted in this thread. People throw around the term with no basis whatsoever. Soon, something like dota 2 will be considered p2w because "hey, I play better with that blue skin because it rests my eyes and I have to pay for skins with real money".

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Xarteros   

People don't understand that Pay to Win is different than pay-related shortcutting.

A game is only P2W if you can literally achieve more than anyone else if you pay. If you have premium, you earn more money. Are you saying other people can't earn money? There is nothing you can get on the Hongmoon store or with any game package that is completely unobtainable to another player who hasn't paid a cent. If a non-paying player wants to work a bit harder, they can get to exactly the level of equipment and skill than a paying player, and often will actually be more skilled because they've spent more actual time playing.

Part of the entire purpose of premium bonuses is to provide a means of making the game fun for people who don't have a lot of time to play due to work. If you work a lot, you can easily afford premium subscription, and the bonuses help make up for the fact that you have considerably less time to play than normal players. It doesn't matter how much you complain, no company is going to want to remove bonuses for people who actually work, both because it's unfair to exclude them from the game, and because they're the only thing keeping the servers paid for and functional.

 

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"yes i can't say it's unfair that players who get their parents to buy them premium get more advantages"

 

Going to have to stop you there. Credit goes down when you say things like that because the wording makes it sound like you're assuming stuff. People can buy premium themselves, and if people follow ratings (I know some don't, but some do) then they would be able to get the money themselves.

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8 minutes ago, BestCatGirl said:

it's p2w because who has more money has more gear and the rest who don't have the chance to be as rich will just get *cricket*ed in pvp.

 

 

You guys really dont understand the concept of p2w but still the gold dont beat others players for you, this game is about skill. Thinking the premium user are kids who their parents buy the premium is quite childish XD.

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2 minutes ago, RaikaVernana said:

 

 

You guys really dont understand the concept of p2w but still the gold dont beat others players for you, this game is about skill. Thinking the premium user are kids who their parents buy the premium is quite childish XD.

 

propably the one who started this topic is a 14-year old girl who doesn't understand the concept of p2w, or concept of anything cos she has brains of a little kid.

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Shimetsu   
1 hour ago, BestCatGirl said:

you will get 4 silver from killing 10 monsters in quests that give you 4 silver for killing monsters and completing the quest that's already 8 silver. now do various quests that tell you to kill many monsters and you will get 1 gold in no time. once you finish all the quests you can still get money by farming monsters which is completely p2w since other players wont be able to make money as efficiently. yes i can't say it's unfair that players who get their parents to buy them premium get more advantages but getting completely *cricket*ed just because i don't pay is just bad. 

 

And before you say "lol stop playing" i'll probably do it soon since i'm already getting bored of this game.

 

btw the number of copper that i'm talking about that you get is for high level not low.

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1 hour ago, Kabraxis said:

For the price of two coffees you can reap the benefits you so highly complain about.

Or you could continue to whine about your free game experience, when literally nothing is going to be done about it.

I agree with this 100%. This game is rated M (means you must be 17+) If you are 17+ and cannot afford this that is sad. If you are not 17+ and jobless you should not be playing in the first place. If you are jobless but 17+ and can't afford it I'm sure you have more important things to be doing than complaining about a video game.

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Callback   

You make a hell of a lot more money playing the market than grinding mobs on a premium account.

 

The best path to riches is available to the f2pers.

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Shimetsu   
Just now, BigSmokeNSP said:

I agree with this 100%. This game is rated M (means you must be 17+) If you are 17+ and cannot afford this that is sad. If you are not 17+ and jobless you should not be playing in the first place. If you are jobless but 17+ and can't afford it I'm sure you have more important things to be doing than complaining about a video game.

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Sylla   
1 hour ago, jvalex said:

 

Getting more money is not p2w per say cause you can get money elsewhere, like daylies. Its only pay to go faster. BTW i dont know any monster that will give you 4 silver with premium. With premium you get like 50 yo 80 copper from monster in a dungeon.

 

You go faster, you *cricket* the ones who go slower= p2w.

I cant believe you even try to justify it.

 

Oh wait, you are special. Sorry, i didnt know.

Edited by Sylla

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6 minutes ago, Sylla said:

You go faster, you *cricket* the ones who go slower= p2w.

I cant believe you even try to justify it.

 

Oh wait, you are special. Sorry, i didnt know.

 

wtf is this logic. xD

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Advin   
Just now, Unskilled banana said:

 

wtf is this logic. xD

There isn't any. Its just like the OP. They don't understand the term P2W. 

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1 hour ago, BestCatGirl said:

you will get 4 silver from killing 10 monsters in quests that give you 4 silver for killing monsters and completing the quest that's already 8 silver. now do various quests that tell you to kill many monsters and you will get 1 gold in no time. once you finish all the quests you can still get money by farming monsters which is completely p2w since other players wont be able to make money as efficiently. yes i can't say it's unfair that players who get their parents to buy them premium get more advantages but getting completely *cricket*ed just because i don't pay is just bad. 

 

And before you say "lol stop playing" i'll probably do it soon since i'm already getting bored of this game.

 

btw the number of copper that i'm talking about that you get is for high level not low.

Wait what did I just read?

 

I'm a premium player , lv 45, so please tell me where mobs drop 4 silver so I can farm them. The highest I've seen is 80 copper. Hell even bosses don't drop that kind of cash lol.

Edited by rapatpamp

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Desc   
38 minutes ago, Asuka said:

Of course, that's what I'm saying all along:) That's why I posted in this thread. People throw around the term with no basis whatsoever. Soon, something like dota 2 will be considered p2w because "hey, I play better with that blue skin because it rests my eyes and I have to pay for skins with real money".

? that is a hilariously bad comparison

 

try this for a dota 2 example, "a premium member will gain 3 gold per sec instead of 1.5", and yeah that is P2W and won't ever get implemented by Valve.

 

I'm not saying this thing made BnS pay-to-win because by definition it's not (not yet anyway) but NCSoft honestly strike me as a company that will definitely do it if chances arrives

 

I mean the game forum has a stupid high amount of white knight and fanboy compared to ANY game forum I play before, It's actually kinda hilarious and refreshing experience lmao

26 minutes ago, Callback said:

You make a hell of a lot more money playing the market than grinding mobs on a premium account.

 

The best path to riches is available to the f2pers.

actually no you can hardly "play with the market" as a f2p user as the game limit the item you sell at AH at 10 items/day.

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22 minutes ago, Desc said:

actually no you can hardly "play with the market" as a f2p user as the game limit the item you sell at AH at 10 items/day.

 

I wonder if you can sell 10 item at the same time, not 10 items in total...

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Asuka   
14 minutes ago, Desc said:

? that is a hilariously bad comparison

 

try this for a dota 2 example, "a premium member will gain 3 gold per sec instead of 1.5", and yeah that is P2W and won't ever get implemented by Valve.

 

I'm not saying this thing made BnS pay-to-win because by definition it's not (not yet anyway) but NCSoft honestly strike me as a company that will definitely do it if chances arrives

 

I mean the game forum has a stupid high amount of white knight and fanboy compared to ANY game forum I play before, It's actually kinda hilarious and refreshing experience lmao

actually no you can hardly "play with the market" as a f2p user as the game limit the item you sell at AH at 10 items/day.

It wasn't a comparison, it was an example. Everything can be seen through the p2w glasses if you want to. I've seen people brand heroes of the storm as pay to win.

 

You made a comparison - but you can't make a comparison with such different games, or at least, a comparison of that kind. For one-shot games that have a clear separation between the action and the "menu" and are played through "matches" which last for 10-60 minutes (I am counting here games like wot, moba's, map-based match fps's etc), anything that affects the mechanics IN BATTLE is very destructive to the balance. Whether it's a +1 rocket launcher of doom or faster gold or +10% character speed.

MMORPG's are consistent, ongoing settings where the game takes place continuously, as opposed to match-based instanced games that last for several minutes. And in instances where this is the case, premium members don't get benefits - once you step into the 1v1/3v3 arena, everything is erased and your character is standardized to provide a blitz matchup.

While the gameplay of arena-based games with no surrounding gameplay can't be tampered with as that would cause a p2w imbalance, the whole thing is taken to the "out of game menu". So you can reap the benefits there. It's very similar with MMORPGS if we look at the setting as the "menu". When direct mechanics are involved (you and me go into the arena or do combos etc), there are no benefits. When we leave the arena, a f2p player will have problems with outfit placement, will have slower leveling, longer queue times and such.

 

If we are going to dabble in a "non-direct pay to win", well, while it's not a clear subject, the very notion of it is moot as well. Also, if we are to go into the specifics regarding bns western release, I play the game as a non-premium and as a premium and the impact is insignificant and there where it has the most impact, it's usually in completely out of game (as in out of the whole game, not just mechanics) things, such as queue times.

If queue times remain like this, I'd be more inclined to call this game a p2p - but still not p2w.

 

As for ncsoft and how trustworthy they seem, I don't see them as trustworthy at all. But that's beside the point, the OP is about the current state of the game, which they see as p2w. That simply isn't true. UNLESS, unless - we stretch the terminology to the max and go by the maxim that every advantage and benefit is p2w because every advantage brings you closer to the "win" (whatever "win" meant). And in that case, yes, I'd say that every game except maybe dota 2 (maybe) that is f2p is p2w. But that is awfully black and white and immature approach. Wouldn't you agree?

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Bacon21   
30 minutes ago, Desc said:

?

I mean the game forum has a stupid high amount of white knight and fanboy compared to ANY game forum I play before, It's actually kinda hilarious and refreshing experience lmao

 

I find it hilarious and refreshing when people throw around white knight and fanboy on a game port that is at most a week old.  Also invalidates any arguments you make in my opinion.  I wish kids (or kiddish adults) could come up with something better.

 

Also Asuka, I appauld your attempts but I think it's lost on some in here.

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Asuka   
32 minutes ago, Desc said:

I mean the game forum has a stupid high amount of white knight and fanboy compared to ANY game forum I play before, It's actually kinda hilarious and refreshing experience lmao

1 hour ago, Callback said:

Have you played... games?:)

I mean, have you played any of the blizzard games, for example? Any. If you see this forum as a white knight haven or something, I must be on some other forum, as the majority of topics are about bad servers, OP forcemasters, bad localization, refunds due to downtimes and launcher not working.

This quote of yours seems like a very emotionally fueled one for some reason. I mean, I am honestly surprised that you find this forum less "cancerous" than any other. I guess it depends on forums you were visiting, but still. I haven't seen the mandatory "thanks for the great game" topics that are abundant in any game forum there is and topics that aren't about queue times and such are rare as well. Actually, there are more complaint-based topics in "general discussion" than in majority of game forums. You need to look carefully to find a "which zone is the coolest" topic - if you succeed at all.

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Vade   
1 hour ago, Sylla said:

You go faster, you *cricket* the ones who go slower= p2w.

I cant believe you even try to justify it.

 

Oh wait, you are special. Sorry, i didnt know.

You and people like you need to learn what p2w actually means.

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Asuka   
6 minutes ago, Bacon21 said:

 

I find it hilarious and refreshing when people throw around white knight and fanboy on a game port that is at most a week old.  Also invalidates any arguments you make in my opinion.  I wish kids (or kiddish adults) could come up with something better.

 

Also Asuka, I appauld your attempts but I think it's lost on some in here.

 

I somehow didn't see the edgy paragraph when I replied, so I thought they were serious in wanting to discuss things. I still regard it as a possibility, as the paragraph was very emotionally constructed, maybe it's not the poster's standard disposition but they were frustrated at the time.

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HurbY   

I cant even....

 

People please understand, the IMPORTANT endgame gear to not get rekt in open world PvP is basically not tradeable, yes you might need to do some dailies to get gold and farm the transformation stones if you are unlucky with dungeon drops. But still, you will be on a comparable level to the point where skill matters and not if you get 40/50 or 30 copper for a fking mob.

 

And thats for open world PvP, we are not even talking about arena PvP where everything is totally equal. This game is probably one of the best environments to play in both as a paying or non-paying player. Hence the large amount of players which makes it interesting for paying players to invest money while non paying player can compete on even terms while they might (sometimes) have to farm a bit more to even it out.

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Rief   

*sigh* 

 

Play the market. That's where the real PVP is. each day your're only allowed limited amount of hits. But, if you figured it out, it's kinda rewarding.

 

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Desc   
11 minutes ago, Asuka said:

 

It wasn't a comparison, it was an example. Everything can be seen through the p2w glasses if you want to. I've seen people brand heroes of the storm as pay to win.

 

You made a comparison - but you can't make a comparison with such different games, or at least, a comparison of that kind. For one-shot games that have a clear separation between the action and the "menu" and are played through "matches" which last for 10-60 minutes (I am counting here games like wot, moba's, map-based match fps's etc), anything that affects the mechanics IN BATTLE is very destructive to the balance. Whether it's a +1 rocket launcher of doom or faster gold or +10% character speed.

MMORPG's are consistent, ongoing settings where the game takes place continuously, as opposed to match-based instanced games that last for several minutes. And in instances where this is the case, premium members don't get benefits - once you step into the 1v1/3v3 arena, everything is erased and your character is standardized to provide a blitz matchup.

While the gameplay of arena-based games with no surrounding gameplay can't be tampered with as that would cause a p2w imbalance, the whole thing is taken to the "out of game menu". So you can reap the benefits there. It's very similar with MMORPGS if we look at the setting as the "menu". When direct mechanics are involved (you and me go into the arena or do combos etc), there are no benefits. When we leave the arena, a f2p player will have problems with outfit placement, will have slower leveling, longer queue times and such.

 

If we are going to dabble in a "non-direct pay to win", well, while it's not a clear subject, the very notion of it is moot as well. Also, if we are to go into the specifics regarding bns western release, I play the game as a non-premium and as a premium and the impact is insignificant and there where it has the most impact, it's usually in completely out of game (as in out of the whole game, not just mechanics) things, such as queue times.

If queue times remain like this, I'd be more inclined to call this game a p2p - but still not p2w.

 

As for ncsoft and how trustworthy they seem, I don't see them as trustworthy at all. But that's beside the point, the OP is about the current state of the game, which they see as p2w. That simply isn't true. UNLESS, unless - we stretch the terminology to the max and go by the maxim that every advantage and benefit is p2w because every advantage brings you closer to the "win" (whatever "win" meant). And in that case, yes, I'd say that every game except maybe dota 2 (maybe) that is f2p is p2w. But that is awfully black and white and immature approach. Wouldn't you agree?

I mean I basically agree with you that the current state of the game is fine and not P2W as of now

 

but as you said some people's definition of P2W might be different and I don't see anything wrong with people complaining about it if their reasoning is valid

 

the reaction to such post were usually quite 'unpleasant' which I find unfortunate

6 minutes ago, Asuka said:

Have you played... games?:)

I mean, have you played any of the blizzard games, for example? Any. If you see this forum as a white knight haven or something, I must be on some other forum, as the majority of topics are about bad servers, OP forcemasters, bad localization, refunds due to downtimes and launcher not working.

This quote of yours seems like a very emotionally fueled one for some reason. I mean, I am honestly surprised that you find this forum less "cancerous" than any other. I guess it depends on forums you were visiting, but still. I haven't seen the mandatory "thanks for the great game" topics that are abundant in any game forum there is and topics that aren't about queue times and such are rare as well. Actually, there are more complaint-based topics in "general discussion" than in majority of game forums. You need to look carefully to find a "which zone is the coolest" topic - if you succeed at all.

ok maybe I didn't worded that correctly. But my point is this is my first time playing game published by NCSoft and a lot people in it is very supportive and more 'on the side' of the publisher especially about their F2P model and premium benefit (which I personally don't find much problem on, but It's definitely far from great).

 

and yes you're correct in that a lot of the topics people posted are complain thread, but look at it at another way, maybe if the game have less 'problems' people will start posting such thing as "which zone is the coolest". 

 

and nah I'm not emotional or anything, as I said it's a refreshing experience for me.

 

9 minutes ago, Bacon21 said:

 

I find it hilarious and refreshing when people throw around white knight and fanboy on a game port that is at most a week old.  Also invalidates any arguments you make in my opinion.  I wish kids (or kiddish adults) could come up with something better.

 

Also Asuka, I appauld your attempts but I think it's lost on some in here.

well uh I'm sorry i guess that my post offend you in some way

 

these "you are a kid" argument are seriously getting old though

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