Ascendant seems rather underpowered?

[swpz]

So we have the following options, I'll be comparing tier 3 as I don't have raven 6 or dawn/rift 6.

 

Raven:

15-25k damage proc (depending on AP)

Massive RMB elemental skill boost

+5 elemental damage per stack for 30 seconds

+22 AP per stack for 30 seconds (no CD after triggering Raven)

Raven effect

 

Rift/Dawnforge:

15-25k damage proc (depending on AP)

+10% damage boost to major DPS skill (Dawn)

-30% CD for unresetable skill (Rift)

+20 damage per stack for 30 seconds (no CD after triggering Skyshatter)

Sky effect

 

Ascendant:

 

700 critical/critical defense, 1000 recovery

3400 lifedrain proc

-30% CD to skill

Ascendant effect:

120 AP

DD 1100

AD 650

10k HP, 3k Defense, Cheal regen 2500, CD 1000

CD reset when effect wears off.

-100% focus damage on targets for 6 hits

 

---

 

Seems to me that Ascendant gets the short end of the stick here, most of the stats are purely defensive but far too low for it to matter; 700 critical/critical defense is rather useless when the majority of damage one takes is from elemental sources. 1k recovery is well... useless to the point where one tends to wonder why it's there to begin with. Going from Ascendant 3 to 6 gives you nothing but 2 more seconds of buff and 2 less seconds of interval between buff. It also gives 200 more life drain on hit proc. Not sure what sort of upgrade that is supposed to be.

 

• No high damage procs  (classes with high APS benefit the most)
• No consistent maintainable damage boost from buff (Ascendent is basically 10 seconds of buff every 35 seconds where as the PVE weapon buffs are spammable, you're almost always guaranteed to have at least +40 AP from the buff)
• No consistent boost to skill damage (Dawn)
• No consistent boost to CR/CD (all PVE)
• CD reset doesn't reset certain skills like V and Z which are of utmost importance in PVP (Getting a 30% reduction on Z does help though, but nothing that game changing as it's still 40 seconds of CD)
• Benediction effect is useless against legendary souls

 

Compared to something like Raven that gains 50% elemental buff for certain skill going from 3-6 (not to mention the default stats are actually better), seems rather skewed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sendir]

It's a matter of cheaper upgrade paths. Sure you can go straight to raven for massive DPS boost or ya can think in to the future and go for the cheapest path by going along with Ascent to max to swap to Rift/Dawnforge and I think it's at stage 6 where you finally go raven, this way ya save resources

[Aztael]

I feel like Ascendant is really strong.

Sure it is not a nuke like Raven but. If the raven user get caught by a 100-0 combo he is dead . That's it dead. Need at least 1 more person nearby to either use party Iframe or interrupt opponent.

 

Ascendant on the other hand has benediction which completely drains focus and will break that 100-0 chain. Also if you happen to be inside a **** you will probably get 3 people to lose all their focus. Which in my opinion is really REALLY good. Sure Cosmic Soul tree will counter it but if someone has that soul you are basically dead anyway unless you can 100-0 them.

 

Bear in mind that some classes do seem to benefit way more of ascendant then others. i feel like people with tons of iframes are a real pain when having ascendant. Focus drain is stronger than you think especially if you already used some of your focus recovery skills

[Zae]

As far as I'm concerned (I play BM in 6v6) Ascendant is now my bread & butter. Raven beside raw modifiers on damage doesn't offer you any extra bonus. There is a no-match at least for most melee classes.

• Focus drain on retard spam classes is insane same goes for all spinning god damned annoying classes.
• When playing a single-escape class the reset of iFrames and TAB is just a MUST HAVE.
• When asc. weapon procs, hell, this is a firestorm and you litterally can destroy anyone.
• CD reduction (at least for BM) of  Soaring Falcon is a delight, get HM Z + 4, pull 4 ppl and kkthxbai you're near death babes.

Basically I'd say Asc. weapon is necessary for a handful of classes to perform at least average in 6v6, it is highly valuable to stalling and single escape classes and not necessary to most of pewpew classes. The weapon isn't go-to if you have raven already but will provide you with more comfort and possibilities when teamfighting, it's up to you. If you ppl have the resources to get both an asc weap and a raven then go ahead. If you have to choose between one or another go raven.

[RavTH]

time to queue to 6v6 let's see!
oh I got my cards let's see
an raven, an some balefuls and seraph, um not bad I got a raven! let's check the deck of the other team!
ascendent, ascendent, raven, and balefuls
well shii- looks like I am afking in this one!
 

[KurooSakura]

Are you blind? As soon as you even go near someone with ascendant you lose all focus and cant even attack, that makes raven and dawn useless. 

[swpz]

On 10/17/2017 at 1:39 AM, Aztael said:

I feel like Ascendant is really strong.

Sure it is not a nuke like Raven but. If the raven user get caught by a 100-0 combo he is dead . That's it dead. Need at least 1 more person nearby to either use party Iframe or interrupt opponent.

 

Ascendant on the other hand has benediction which completely drains focus and will break that 100-0 chain. Also if you happen to be inside a **** you will probably get 3 people to lose all their focus. Which in my opinion is really REALLY good. Sure Cosmic Soul tree will counter it but if someone has that soul you are basically dead anyway unless you can 100-0 them.

 

Bear in mind that some classes do seem to benefit way more of ascendant then others. i feel like people with tons of iframes are a real pain when having ascendant. Focus drain is stronger than you think especially if you already used some of your focus recovery skills

Just Awakened energy is enough to offset the Benediction effect. Also, unlike Galaxy (10), benediction is only for 6 attacks in a row. So against spam classes, even if you drain all their focus, they can burn your buff off nearly instantly - and then regain what they lost like it never happened.

 

It's not a nuke indeed, in fact it's pathetically weak off the buff. With the buff it's competitive with Raven, but as I said, the buff is 12 seconds every 35 seconds where as Raven stays on as long as RNG favors you. Those random RNG 20k damage procs are pretty ridiculous as well. That's basically a free RMB skill hit with Ascendant buff up at 140% elemental.

18 hours ago, KurooSakura said:

Are you blind? As soon as you even go near someone with ascendant you lose all focus and cant even attack, that makes raven and dawn useless. 

If you have Dawn/Raven you will also have awakened+ energy; if you don't you're doing it wrong. Rendering the benediction effect useless. If you're not horribly outgeared and can't somehow survive 12 seconds of the Ascendant buff, you're doing something wrong. Without the buff Ascendant hits like a wet noodle, that's  a full 23 seconds where you can goto town on him.

 

--

 

I'm of the mind Ascendant should have some offensive stats as opposed to the utterly useless +1k recovery (why is that even there?!)
 

[KurooSakura]

I have cosmic soul and my focus still gets drained, that 1 second without focus is the difference between being one shot or one shotting them :^) 

[FrozenB]

Ascendant is powerful in PVP, that's why it is listed as PVP weapon. In PVP, when raven vs ascendant, ascendant win. That's why in battlegrounds, all the whales or top pvpers switched from raven to ascendant weapon.

 

In term of pure dps, raven is slightly better than ascendant because the bosses/mobs don't have a thing call "focus point". That's the power of ascendant weapon by draining enemies' life force and focus point so that the enemies can't constantly damage you non-stop.

[swpz]

On 10/20/2017 at 3:05 AM, FrozenB said:

Ascendant is powerful in PVP, that's why it is listed as PVP weapon. In PVP, when raven vs ascendant, ascendant win. That's why in battlegrounds, all the whales or top pvpers switched from raven to ascendant weapon.

 

In term of pure dps, raven is slightly better than ascendant because the bosses/mobs don't have a thing call "focus point". That's the power of ascendant weapon by draining enemies' life force and focus point so that the enemies can't constantly damage you non-stop.

It being listed as a PVP weapon need not mean it is more powerful in PVP. Galaxy 12 was no match for Raven 1/2 or Dawn/Rift 1/2 and still is no match for it despite being a dedicated PVP weapon on the same tree tier as either of the PVE weapons.

 

A raven summoner is far more lethal than an ascendant summoner for example. Same goes for gunners or any class with range. Ascendant is nearly a must have for melee classes (or classes without too many iframes) if only for the focus drain defense buff. Any fast attacking class would be better off with Raven/Dawn/Rift for the 1500-1800% weapon damage procs where as Ascendant gives 12 seconds of buff every 23 seconds at max without random RNG hits that amount of higher than any usual possible max hit due to defense and critical defense.

 

Personally I tend to think that that 1k recovery is garbage and should be replaced by something like 1k pierce/defense just like how it gives 700 critical and critical defense. That would actually make Ascendant give a meaningful passive stat that is extremely useful in PVP over the PVE weapons which are purely offensive. 700/700 has existed since Galaxy 5 which is pretty absurd as even at Ascendant 6, you've still got the passive effects of something 11 tiers lower.

[FrozenB]

9 hours ago, swpz said:

It being listed as a PVP weapon need not mean it is more powerful in PVP. Galaxy 12 was no match for Raven 1/2 or Dawn/Rift 1/2 and still is no match for it despite being a dedicated PVP weapon on the same tree tier as either of the PVE weapons.

 

A raven summoner is far more lethal than an ascendant summoner for example. Same goes for gunners or any class with range. Ascendant is nearly a must have for melee classes (or classes without too many iframes) if only for the focus drain defense buff. Any fast attacking class would be better off with Raven/Dawn/Rift for the 1500-1800% weapon damage procs where as Ascendant gives 12 seconds of buff every 23 seconds at max without random RNG hits that amount of higher than any usual possible max hit due to defense and critical defense.

 

Personally I tend to think that that 1k recovery is garbage and should be replaced by something like 1k pierce/defense just like how it gives 700 critical and critical defense. That would actually make Ascendant give a meaningful passive stat that is extremely useful in PVP over the PVE weapons which are purely offensive. 700/700 has existed since Galaxy 5 which is pretty absurd as even at Ascendant 6, you've still got the passive effects of something 11 tiers lower.

It is because galaxy weapon is on the level of seraph/baleful. Ascendant weapon is on the level of raven/dawn/rift. 

 

In PVP, Galaxy vs seraph/baleful = galaxy win. Ascendant vs raven/dawn/rift = ascendant win. Obviously, galaxy and raven is on different weapon level where raven will win 100%.

[swpz]

On 10/25/2017 at 1:17 AM, FrozenB said:

It is because galaxy weapon is on the level of seraph/baleful. Ascendant weapon is on the level of raven/dawn/rift. 

 

In PVP, Galaxy vs seraph/baleful = galaxy win. Ascendant vs raven/dawn/rift = ascendant win. Obviously, galaxy and raven is on different weapon level where raven will win 100%.

This is incorrect.

 

Baleful or Seraph on a ranged class will destroy Galaxy on a melee class. Galaxy isn't that good as until you build enough stacks or proc benediction, it's just another weapon. 1k recovery is crap; and the 700/700 critical/critical defense is easily bypassed by having proper soulshields. Baleful/Seraph give damage/CD reductions which bar multiple Galaxy procs, are far more useful. If the Baleful/Seraph user has the EC ring, Galaxy becomes utterly useless.

 

Raven will beat Ascendant on equal gear. Ascendant doesn't have the burst to kill Raven if the stats are completely equal; surviving 10-12 seconds of Ascendant is easy if tab isn't wasted early on. Most classes have enough iframes, evade skills and what not to wait the buff out. After the buff is off, it's GG. Raven on the other hand gives enough burst to kill the Ascendant user. Raven bonuses are still there regardless of whether or not the 5 stack buff activates, namely the disgusting 250+% elemental damage to RMB skills. For example: having a BM with Raven and 1100+ elemental hit 25k non critical DTs is utterly absurd when without that elemental, the base hit is only 10k or so when mitigated by 4k/3k defense/critical defense. Gunners with Raven have managed to hit 80k bullet storms at 900 elemental damage, it's quite ridiculous. Thus far I haven't seen a gunner bother with Ascendant as it doesn't seem to be necessary.

 

Class of course matters even more but for ranged, Raven/Dawn/Rift beats Ascendant hands down. For melee classes that have to close in to take hits, Ascendant is nearly a must have.

[Shuchin]

Sort of agree, though I prefer facing ranged with Raven compared to those with Ascendant as they will be more squishy. But maybe that's 'cause my soul is medium tier.

 

Debuff damage should definitely be mentioned more here. It goes directly to skill damage and that dwarves any elemental procs, especially with Aransu/Dynasty badges.

 

Higher tier 6v6 does not have 10-12 second combos any more, it's 3-4 seconds at most. Ascendant is helpful here because it can get you back up to 100% faster before next engage. that's also where the recovery helps, boosting your potions.

 

Oh and Ascendant has 700 pierce, not crit. That's a lot of solid extra base damage (around 5-10% depending on enemy def stat)

[Hirukaru]

Dont call it a tier 3. You probably mean stage 3 ;) 

Tier 3 weapon you currently mean Aransu 
(Tier 1 - bale/seraph, tier 2 -Rift and raven, tier 3 aransu and the follow up from rift)

In the future raven will be a tier 1 weapon and you can even buy it from store.


Raven is for high damage okay, but ascendant is a true pvp weapon thanks to its buffs.