Intruethere

Remove Failure From Premium Transformation Stones!

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Nattia   
23 minutes ago, JatoJato said:

Or just introduce a way to craft them that costs more but has no chance of failure. Problem solved - all in all players are more happy then. Besides it might even be better because players that got lucky earn less money ;-).

that could be another approach, extreme cost to craft it, but get a guaranteed super costly item. either way works, but I like buying them off the MP. maybe they don't want to fix a price for them.

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JatoJato   
13 minutes ago, Charas Blade said:

Ok, yeti - 10 min - 1 run  (btw by now most of people have it for ages), Asura6 doesnt counted which means all <560 ap will not be able to upgrade (fail), I have around 80 runs (thx to merchant event) and I bet most of people do that also plus just by doing dailies it's takes 3 months. Which is doesnt make any difference , well it'll you guys will complain even more :D

You do understand the difference between a draft and actual plan/implementation. Beacuse neither you nor i have the exact numbers Ncsoft are the ones that should decide the acutal number that is needed and/or acceptable. :-) 

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MoeGod   
14 minutes ago, Charas Blade said:

go play tetris seriously but even there you will complain that figures dropping too fast :DDDDDD

You are holding on your invalid argument which doesn't make any sense. One of your argument was "Removing rng will make progress much faster and people can progress without effort". We've already provided solutions: increasing the cost to make SPTS and/or requiring a certain achivement unlocked to be able to upgrade your gear. Learn how to read.

Another argument of yours is:

Quote

But then everyone will complain like "I need 1000 stingers to do upgrade for  10ap"

Ooookay, you want to go back in time and search top topic "Why I quit this game" , 99% of reason are that upgrades are too costly, so they make discounts, now people complain PSTS failing, you just bunch of toxic people, who are never happy.

You are directing the discussion away from the original topic, which is totally nonsense and invalid. You are the one who are being toxic. Let me reply to you in terms of this matter: I do agree that there were a lot of crying threads about having to grind too much, etc., where there were toxics here and there, BUT if you have a brain and use it properly, you can see they made sense in some ways AND even NCSoft had to agree and reduce the cost of upgrading weapon + accessories.

26 minutes ago, Charas Blade said:

Ok, yeti - 10 min - 1 run  (btw by now most of people have it for ages), Asura6 doesnt counted which means all <560 ap will not be able to upgrade (fail), I have around 80 runs (thx to merchant event) and I bet most of people do that also plus just by doing dailies it's takes 3 months. Which is doesnt make any difference , well it'll you guys will complain even more :D

If the time it takes you to get legendaries is the same as it is now, that's actually good. The pace at this moment is acceptable. You seem to fail to recognize the difference between 2 systems: Let's say we need 3 months to have enough gold to upgrade to legendaries; with rng system, someone may only need 1 month because he gets lucky while some others may need 4-5 months because they decide to try the transmute and fail; however, without rng system, EVERYONE needs 3 months, no more no less, to get to legendaries, which is THE SAME AS previous stages such as true scorpion, awaken scorpion, etc.

In other words, the CURRENT SYSTEM is based on the fact that lucky people take advantage of unlucky people, which is UNFAIR.

The weapon system has been totally fine (without rng) up until True Scoprion, where we are blocked behind the "RNG Wall". So tell me, why is it necessary to have that wall for legendaries?

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I didnt directed anything from topic 

 

You say remove RNG, I say RNG good gold sink (or market will be over flooded)

You say then instead RNG make thing more costly, I point out that so many quited because they need to farm that much

Someone propose achievements, I explained why it wont that way

 

Now correct there exactly did I turn away from topic?

 

P.S. 

You are holding on your invalid argument which doesn't make any sense.

 

This is isn't argument you got lost in thread already :)

Edited by Charas Blade

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United17   

Shhhh the white knights will hear you! You know because for some odd reason they think a slot machine is equivalent to "challenge".

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MoeGod   
20 minutes ago, Charas Blade said:

I didnt directed anything from topic 

 

You say remove RNG, I say RNG good gold sink (or market will be over flooded)

You say then instead RNG make thing more costly, I point out that so many quited because they need to farm that much

Someone propose achievements, I explained why it wont that way

 

Now correct there exactly did I turn away from topic?

 

P.S. 

 

This is isn't argument you got lost in thread already :)

You want gold sink? aren't legendary pets + soul enough? You have that much gold, aren't you? Unsatisfied even with legendaries + soul. How does removing rng even change the market price if we increase the cost to make SPTS? I would say 2.5x cost to produce the same price as they are in Market atm. And since when you don't have to farm to make SPTS??? With the current system, you STILL have to farm for gold and mats to make them. People who can't deal with farming already quitted long ago. About the achivement matter, how doesn't it work? NCSoft is the one who decides which achivements are required. Don't just limit it to achivement from dungeons, there can be many ways to implement this to ensure that people will have to play the game, as you wish.

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19 minutes ago, MoeGod said:

aren't legendary pets + soul enough?

add to this list psts, I just fine with it 

 

19 minutes ago, MoeGod said:

I would say 2.5x cost to produce the same price as they are in Market atm.

I see you bragging just after patch about this

 

 

By the of days go buy it from market stop whine or I'll send you back in time again now far away to 2006 to Lineage2 game(NC Soft game also). I wonder will be able even to get max level :D

 

19 minutes ago, MoeGod said:

About the achivement matter, how doesn't it work? NCSoft is the one who decides which achivements are required. Don't just limit it to achivement from dungeons, there can be many ways to implement this to ensure that people will have to play the game, as you wish.

All you wish be as those who there farming insensately to get theirs gear and now you're salty and toxic about it. So it's simple

 

1. Learn to farm correct stuff

2. Don't whine about lottery, just because it's silly

3. I don't think you'll find proper MMO there end game gear would be a part of RNG

4. Don't like RNG - don't play MMO

 

 

Edited by Charas Blade

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MoeGod   
8 minutes ago, Charas Blade said:

add to this list psts, I just fine with it 

 

I see you bragging just after patch about this

 

 

By the of days go buy it from market stop whine or I'll send you back in time again now far away to 2006 to Lineage2 game(NC Soft game also). I wonder will be able even to get max level :D

 

All you wish be as those who there farming insensately to get theirs gear and now you're salty and toxic about it. So it's simple

 

1. Learn to farm correct stuff

2. Don't whine about lottery, just because it's silly

3. I don't think you'll find proper MMO there end game gear would be a part of RNG

4. Don't like RNG - don't play MMO

 

 

1. Just because you are fine with it, it doesn't mean the system is fine. Respect others' opinions.

2. What did I brag? Can you please tell me?

3. Why do I have to play in a game that I don't like? Since when playing is a job instead of having fun? Instead of Lineage 2, I was spending my time on Dota & League & Dragon Nest, all of which are much more fun and better.

4. Why are you allowed to insult me? Whining is crying and complaining without any reasonable arguments. I'm not whining. I'm providing arguments + solutions to the problems that I'm complaining about. You are trying to insult me because you can't defend your arguments and/or understand mine. Or your definitions about "salty" and "toxic" are totally different from common sense.

5. Again, I'm not complaining about grinding. I even said that the current pace of the game is acceptable. Stop lying about my argument.

6. You even admitted that rng is silly. Why do we have to keep silly things in our game instead of improving it?

7. You are telling me to not play MMO. Sorry but that's not a contribution to this discussion. I love this game and that's why I want to improve it. If human just ignore things and don't want to improve anything, we would still be Stone Age now. That's not how things work.

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18 minutes ago, MoeGod said:

1. Just because you are fine with it, it doesn't mean the system is fine. Respect others' opinions.

2. What did I brag? Can you please tell me?

3. Why do I have to play in a game that I don't like? Since when playing is a job instead of having fun? Instead of Lineage 2, I was spending my time on Dota & League & Dragon Nest, all of which are much more fun and better.

4. Why are you allowed to insult me? Whining is crying and complaining without any reasonable arguments. I'm not whining. I'm providing arguments + solutions to the problems that I'm complaining about. You are trying to insult me because you can't defend your arguments and/or understand mine. Or your definitions about "salty" and "toxic" are totally different from common sense.

5. Again, I'm not complaining about grinding. I even said that the current pace of the game is acceptable. Stop lying about my argument.

6. You even admitted that rng is silly. Why do we have to keep silly things in our game instead of improving it?

7. You are telling me to not play MMO. Sorry but that's not a contribution to this discussion. I love this game and that's why I want to improve it. If human just ignore things and don't want to improve anything, we would still be Stone Age now. That's not how things work.

1. I respect opinion, it's only reflect so far by maybe 10 ppl and it doesnt reflect by masses. So it's irrelevant.

2. You'll brag about "Now I need to farm X days to get it , before it was cheaper on a market"

3. Now I understand then person which played mostly MOBA complain (WE WANT BALANCE) :DDD

4. So salty and toxic is insult, so why I was farming hard to get and you want to change and get easier way may I ask? And yes you are salty because YOU DON'T HAVE IT! That's was simple :)

5. So why you play, to become a forum warrior. One of those who doesn't play but knows better that NC Soft need to do? :D

6. Where did I admitted that RNG is silly , quote please I don't see happen

7. You I like how thing were back in days, at least gaming community who played did created such topics, all stuff was about how to kill each other in game and farm stuff in game. No one complained............ Now however everyone just complains and hop between games and complains again :)

 

P.S. I don't see any suggestion of improvement, maybe another we want to catch up

P.P.S. As I stated before you don't like gamble sell mats and buy PSTS from market and whole this topic is unreasonable 

P.P.P.S. You by the way don't respect my opinion either

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MoeGod   
15 minutes ago, Charas Blade said:

1. I respect opinion, it's only reflect so far by maybe 10 ppl and it doesnt reflect by masses. So it's irrelevant.

2. You'll brag about "Now I need to farm X days to get it , before it was cheaper on a market"

3. Now I understand then person which played mostly MOBA complain (WE WANT BALANCE) :DDD

4. So salty and toxic is insult, so why I was farming hard to get and you want to change and get easier way may I ask? And yes you are salty because YOU DON'T HAVE IT! That's was simple :)

5. So why you play, to become a forum warrior. One of those who doesn't play but knows better that NC Soft need to do? :D

6. Where did I admitted that RNG is silly , quote please I don't see happen

7. You I like how thing were back in days, at least gaming community who played did created such topics, all stuff was about how to kill each other in game and farm stuff in game. No one complained............ Now however everyone just complains and hop between games and complains again :)

 

P.S. I don't see any suggestion of improvement, maybe another we want to catch up

P.P.S. As I stated before you don't like gamble sell mats and buy PSTS from market and whole this topic is unreasonable 

P.P.P.S. You by the way don't respect my opinion either

1. Then I can say that the amount of people who support rng is even less than that of ones who don't want rng so your opinion is irrelevant as well?

 

2. Why would I want to brag something like that? It's not even something to be proud of. How would you know that the price would be more expensive? It all depends on what cost NCSoft decides to be and it can be 200g, 300g, 400g, etc. or whatever. Even it's totally fine if they add some rare materials that are needed to transmute SPTS without failure but those materials can only be dropped from Desolate Tomb or whatever (with rng chance). I REPEAT ONE MORE TIME: I am NOT saying that ALL rng should be removed but ONLY rng during transmutation.

 

3. It's not wrong to demand balance and fair in a game, just saying.

 

4. Oh I see, so you are being salty because if the change is implemented, you would feel regretted wasting mats for 3 failed SPTS. Pitty you. But what's lost is lost, accept the fact that you already lost those mats forever even if no change is made. And since when it would be easier to make 100% sucess rate stones again? 100% sucess rate would cost, for instance, 2.5x or 3x more than rng sucess rate. Fair enough? I would have to grind 3 times more than you to earn something that is guaranteed. If you want to gamble, go ahead.

 

5. Rofl I have been playing this game since beta. Stop making assumptions because you only make fun of yourself.

 

6. You said "Don't whine about lottery, just because it's silly"

 

7. About suggestion of improvement, didn't I and some others talk about it already??? Increasing cost, achievement requirement, adding a 100% transmute (maybe require rare rng-drop materials), dividing failure rate into 3 tiers, etc. Do you have memory loss or something? If yes, tell me so we can work this out together.

 

8. You are avoiding the fact that the current system PUNISHES unlucky hard-working people. You probably failed only 3 stones so you feel like nothing. But I know some people failed like 8-10 stones in a row. I guess you can figure out how much gold + mats they lost. Do you really think they can save up that amount of gold + mats without playing and grinding??? Did they get anything out from their hard work??? Absolutely nothing. Not even a fragment. Hell if it's like I can get one fragment from a failure and 4 fragments can trade for one stone, I would feel much better. But nope, 2 months worth of farming just got wasted.

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12 minutes ago, MoeGod said:

1. Then I can say that the amount of people who support rng is even less than that of ones who don't want rng so your opinion is irrelevant as well?

 

2. Why would I want to brag something like that? It's not even something to be proud of. How would you know that the price would be more expensive? It all depends on what cost NCSoft decides to be and it can be 200g, 300g, 400g, etc. or whatever. Even it's totally fine if they add some rare materials that are needed to transmute SPTS without failure but those materials can only be dropped from Desolate Tomb or whatever (with rng chance). I REPEAT ONE MORE TIME: I am NOT saying that ALL rng should be removed but ONLY rng during transmutation.

 

3. It's not wrong to demand balance and fair in a game, just saying.

 

4. Oh I see, so you are being salty because if the change is implemented, you would feel regretted wasting mats for 3 failed SPTS. Pitty you. But what's lost is lost, accept the fact that you already lost those mats forever even if no change is made. And since when it would be easier to make 100% sucess rate stones again? 100% sucess rate would cost, for instance, 2.5x or 3x more than rng sucess rate. Fair enough? I would have to grind 3 times more than you to earn something that is guaranteed. If you want to gamble, go ahead.

 

5. Rofl I have been playing this game since beta. Stop making assumptions because you only make fun of yourself.

 

6. You said "Don't whine about lottery, just because it's silly"

 

7. About suggestion of improvement, didn't I and some others talk about it already??? Increasing cost, achievement requirement, adding a 100% transmute (maybe require rare rng-drop materials), dividing failure rate into 3 tiers, etc. Do you have memory loss or something? If yes, tell me so we can work this out together.

 

8. You are avoiding the fact that the current system PUNISHES unlucky hard-working people. You probably failed only 3 stones so you feel like nothing. But I know some people failed like 8-10 stones in a row. I guess you can figure out how much gold + mats they lost. Do you really think they can save up that amount of gold + mats without playing and grinding??? Did they get anything out from their hard work??? Absolutely nothing. Not even a fragment. Hell if it's like I can get one fragment from a failure and 4 fragments can trade for one stone, I would feel much better. But nope, 2 months worth of farming just got wasted.

1. Source?:D

2. Oh NC Soft will do pricing (falling out from chair)

3. Discarded

4. You feel unlucky , don't gamble. You're gambler and unlucky don't blame Casino

5. Oh, then da heck you spinning around like a bee and trying not to be hit? :)

6. You took this out of context, you misunderstodd let put it that way

7. I don't that as suggestion, I see current rng as good gold sick 1 click - 50g and lost mats, and don't start about pets because it's not gold sink if you compare

8. Current system punishes no one, unless you want to be punished. It's you who decided it's not NC Soft forcing you to make that click. Just deal with it.

 

I don't see any point of further conversation, you trying to make an elephant from muse, nothing more, nothing else.

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MoeGod   
46 minutes ago, Charas Blade said:

1. Source?:D

2. Oh NC Soft will do pricing (falling out from chair)

3. Discarded

4. You feel unlucky , don't gamble. You're gambler and unlucky don't blame Casino

5. Oh, then da heck you spinning around like a bee and trying not to be hit? :)

6. You took this out of context, you misunderstodd let put it that way

7. I don't that as suggestion, I see current rng as good gold sick 1 click - 50g and lost mats, and don't start about pets because it's not gold sink if you compare

8. Current system punishes no one, unless you want to be punished. It's you who decided it's not NC Soft forcing you to make that click. Just deal with it.

 

I don't see any point of further conversation, you trying to make an elephant from muse, nothing more, nothing else.

1. I don't have time to play around for this. I could ask for your source as well, but that's just childish.

 

2. You are neglecting my suggestion again. And yes, NCSoft's price evaluation is bad, but that's off-topic for now.

 

4. My whole point here is not even about being unlucky and gambling. Have no idea what you are saying. I was talking about a fair transistion between 2 systems so that one is not significantly easier than the other.

 

5. Again, have no idea what you are talking about. I have been playing & researching this game enough to know why rng in transmutation is bad and what can be done to improve the system.

 

7. Suggestion is "an idea or plan put forward for consideration" - a definition I pulled out from dictionary. If you don't count those as suggestions, I guess you don't have a common sense. And why do we need a gold sink? So you like to just waste your gold for nothing? Throw it out of the window? If that's the case, you can send your gold to me, I will put it into good use and you can have your "gold sink" as well. And why isn't pet gold sink? Try getting the Ultimate Legendary Pet. What about soul? Do you know that at later stages, soul is actually very strong and important?

 

8. Of course NCSoft doesn't force anyone. But the rng system results in a SPTS's price that's higher than it worth. That's ridiculous.

 

9. Your last sentence just proves that you are neglecting the discussion and being nonsense. You are saying that I'm suggesting something that is impossible to do and/or irrelevant to the game. But no, everything I've suggested until now is totally feasible and practical regarding to the game's system. So your statement is totally invalid.

Edited by MoeGod

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If you pulling off such stuff out of dictionary , well bad news. I have nothing too add in such case, maybe use economic books may help you. But here again If we consider first is a thing , then consequences of second may change you completely and I'm even afraid of that idea. 

 

I found this shout outs rather stupid , than being conversational in any point of view. But you can continue your battle for bright future, I'll just read :)

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MoeGod   

Oh dear, I do know a lot about economics, both micro and macro, and based on my knowledge, you don't have to look it up in an economics book. It just happens to appear in a "common sense" dictionary, and also in a normal dictionary as well. What a coincidence!

 

However, once again, I have no idea what you are talking about when you said:

16 minutes ago, Charas Blade said:

But here again If we consider first is a thing , then consequences of second may change you completely and I'm even afraid of that idea.

I guess I'm not too bright and/or you are totally out of my league. It would be a great help if you or maybe someone can elaborate these cryptic words.

 

Yes I do agree that the whole conversation is quite stupid because you keep avoiding my arguments + neglecting my points so I had to constantly remind you of many things, which is a waste of time and effort. But in the end, they may also help people who are reading this thread, making this conversation somewhat useful.

 

This is a discussion, not a battle nor a shout-out: I let people judge my and others' arguments themselves to see what make sense to them.

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Grimoir   
10 hours ago, Shadovvv said:

... Why did this get necroed from June?

It arose from the dead together with the Jighanshi to sink the world as we know it into terror and despair.

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12 hours ago, Shadovvv said:

... Why did this get necroed from June?

Maybe some people, like me, came back to the game after a while, failed a few stones, then went on the forum to check if there is any word on removing the rng, found out there isn't, then they quit again. Because nobody wants to waste their time in ssp grinding moonstones anymore and the prices for 6v6 packs are just ridiculous.

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JatoJato   
4 hours ago, 882184_1452550488 said:

@MoeGodif you had " researched more about the game " , you would find on some regions there is a fail rate on upgrading some of your gear too.. but they removed that from NA/EU..

 

 

Yeah other regions.

Hm, first afaik asians love rng (at least i heared so). And while we are talking about other regions lets discuss some other things for example:

- Ping and Server Stability

- Payable Stuff in F10

- Gold income

- Available Items/Weapons

- HM Level after finishing the story

As you can see other regions have many different things - so it is a little bit funny that ppl try to compare 1 single part and this is everytime the rng...

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MoeGod   
13 hours ago, 882184_1452550488 said:

@MoeGodif you had " researched more about the game " , you would find on some regions there is a fail rate on upgrading some of your gear too.. but they removed that from NA/EU..

 

 

It's IRRELEVANT to compare with other regions, why would I care about other regions if I live in NA and play in NA server??? Logic??? Besides, regarding this matter, you are dead wrong. There is ONLY ONE region that has rng on upgrading gear: CN client. AND it's easier to get materials + gold there because of heavy P2W elements. So, if you had "researched more about the game", you would know that CN client is by far the most different model out of F2P clients. Get your fact right.

 

3 hours ago, DannyMayCry said:

Download BnS Taiwan now

You can get Temptation outfit for free at HMCoin section of F10.

Have a nice day every one.

Inb4 removed.

But there are FEW costumes that you can buy at HMCoin section. I think the total amount of buyable costumes is less than 5? maybe less than 10? I don't remember. So if you consider getting ONLY the Temptation outfit and wearing it forever in TW better than being able to buy any new costumes as you wish like in NA, go ahead. Have a nice day and thank you for your insufficient advertisement. Oh, and did I mention that you can get it for free in NA too?

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