Zanzatora

NC Soft and Cheating... A new approach !

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AttacKat   
3 hours ago, JoannaRamira said:

anyway to do ani cancel at 250-260 ms for destroyer ? would be appreciated :3

Usually, no.

 

I played KFM during CBT and tested one on TW, you can do about 1/4 of the cancels and combos, if you ever even get to see the combo icons. My ping to NA is ~45ms and to TW was around 200~210ms.

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2 minutes ago, AttacKat said:

Usually, no.

 

I played KFM during CBT and tested one on TW, you can do about 1/4 of the cancels and combos, if you ever even get to see the combo icons. My ping to NA is ~45ms and to TW was around 200~210ms.

Then it's locked out for me.

 

I really need to resort on stat upping for Junghado.. 

 

Thanks for the info.

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AttacKat   
3 hours ago, MGT said:

If ani-cancel was to be removed damage of skills would have to be upped by quite a lot, Lets compare as (example) Two Destroyers: someone who can hit lets say 15 times in 9 seconds vs someone who can only hit 8-9 times, is losing SO much DPS it is not funny. Try doing timed floors in Mushins Tower where  your attack speed can be 50-60% slower than (one who can ani-cancel) as you try to time every skill just right so it isn't cancelled or just goes "nope try again kappa".

Just now, JoannaRamira said:

I really need to resort on stat upping for Junghado.. 

Here is a video showing the explanation above, where your 600AP pretty much becomes 400AP due to sh*ty ping.

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ARC-1276   

Well, everyone for animation canceling have never been on the wrong end of it before it seems. It does not feel good, it looks stupid, and it feels stupid. The destroyer's macro hammer bros sheez they got going on freaking ROFLSTOMPs everything! And the friggin animation canceling on KFM is completely unnecessary, (having played one before, I know exactly why).

 

Destroyers and summoners are already the most broken classes in the game, but adding on a macro or two, and they're unkillable. And yes, I'm calling it a macro, I don't care what you think, it's using multiple skills within like 1 second! This BS was annoying from before and it's one of the determining factors that led to my closest friend quitting. So yes, animation canceling to me is basically using macros, which is cheating and why I support the OP. It's an unfair advantage that discourages PVP. 

Edited by ARC-1276

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1 hour ago, ARC-1276 said:

Well, everyone for animation canceling have never been on the wrong end of it before it seems. It does not feel good, it looks stupid, and it feels stupid. The destroyer's macro hammer bros sheez they got going on freaking ROFLSTOMPs everything! And the friggin animation canceling on KFM is completely unnecessary, (having played one before, I know exactly why).

 

Destroyers and summoners are already the most broken classes in the game, but adding on a macro or two, and they're unkillable. And yes, I'm calling it a macro, I don't care what you think, it's using multiple skills within like 1 second! This BS was annoying from before and it's one of the determining factors that led to my closest friend quitting. So yes, animation canceling to me is basically using macros, which is cheating and why I support the OP. It's an unfair advantage that discourages PVP. 

Almost every class has an ani cancel outside of Destro/KFM.

 

Not our fault you cant figure it out. You do realize the swing time on a destros axe is almost an entire second? The class isnt even viable for the damage it does but rather the CC chaining it brings to PVE. Look at dps charts and youll see destros at the very bottom, why dont you guys complain about FM/Summoner/Sin ani cancelling cause they are at the top of the dps charts. 

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Let's take this in context :

- Why bother create animations if they are intended to be cancelled ? Complete nonsense

- Please provide a link to whatever official NCSoft statement which says ani-cancel is intentionnal.

- How do you know that they didn't simply FAIL while developping the game then thought "oh well, we'll just act as if it was intentionnal". Some of you may actually remember a certain flop about a certain MMO which also went along this strange line of developpement.

 

Based, on this, everyone says "ani cancel is ok", simply because they see it everyday and they consider it normal (you know the story about the 3 armed people and the 2 armed person right ? He was the weird one...).

Like some of you virulently argue, removing ani-cancel would klll some classes. Wrong, they would just need to be tweaked so that they would work normally and become normally balanced.

 

I personnaly feel dirty using anim cancel. I know it's an abuse of system mechanics. I don't use it though I could. Some seem to share this opinion and some people seem to have become so dependent on it, they believe it's natural and defend it teeth and claws...

 

As a reminder, there are countless cheating involved with game mechanics that can be abused through anim-cancel. There is none when it comes to games that doesn't allow this weakness. Cheats will always be there, but they can be swarm or totally isolated incidents...

 

 

Edited by Zanzatora

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Mortys   
7 hours ago, Zanzatora said:

Let's take this in context :

- Why bother create animations if they are intended to be cancelled ? Complete nonsense

- Please provide a link to whatever official NCSoft statement which says ani-cancel is intentionnal.

- How do you know that they didn't simply FAIL while developping the game then thought "oh well, we'll just act as if it was intentionnal". Some of you may actually remember a certain flop about a certain MMO which also went along this strange line of developpement.

 

Based, on this, everyone says "ani cancel is ok", simply because they see it everyday and they consider it normal (you know the story about the 3 armed people and the 2 armed person right ? He was the weird one...).

Like some of you virulently argue, removing ani-cancel would klll some classes. Wrong, they would just need to be tweaked so that they would work normally and become normally balanced.

 

I personnaly feel dirty using anim cancel. I know it's an abuse of system mechanics. I don't use it though I could. Some seem to share this opinion and some people seem to have become so dependent on it, they believe it's natural and defend it teeth and claws...

 

As a reminder, there are countless cheating involved with game mechanics that can be abused through anim-cancel. There is none when it comes to games that doesn't allow this weakness. Cheats will always be there, but they can be swarm or totally isolated incidents...

 

 

And as a reminder, you still have no clue how animations are programmed into the game. Even if the developers don't want them to be cancelled, it's not easy to do so, unless you actually prevent every action while an animation is ongoing. Which means : no jumps and no moving while performing a skill. Would you want your character to be static while performing an auto-attack ? I don't think so. Do you want your character to perform a long animation while you're trying to block or dodge an attack ? I don't think so.

Even if you think you don't use the animation cancelling, you are still doing it for few things, without even noticing it. Does it break the game ? Actually no, it makes the game less rigid in the actions.

 

If you really want to have no animation cancelling, go play a turn based game as it exists in every other game. Even on games that aren't multiplayer.

 

And also, it won't not only kill some classes, but the gameplay will be completely different. And the truth is : if it was something that wasn't part of the game, it would've been removed long time ago. Guess what ? It wasn't, and like other people said, it's a mechanic that is used even in tournaments. If it wasn't allowed, why aren't those players banned ?

You should learn few things before trying to argue that it's some kind of cheat, like try to figure out how games are developed and why it is difficult to prevent that kind of behavior without making your game too rigid.

 

Anyway, this topic is pointless as there will be no changes about it as the game is out for 5 years in KR, so basically, whatever you think about it, they probably have already got complaints in that way.

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You sound so sure of yourself, yet you have 0 official NCSoft proof of what you say...

 

Did you work on developping the game, that you know how it went to create animations ? I didn't think so.

Do you have any statement of NcSoft saying animation cancel is intentionnal ? I didn't think so.

You believe you cannot perform actions while moving without animation cancel ? That is soooooo wrong. You just need to put some actions on the same GCD as it is done in soooo many games (just in case it means : global cooldown, also called sometimes universal cooldown).

 

Everything you say is... baseless, conjuncture and your own wishes.

 

The only, sadly, true thing about what you say it that NCSoft will probably never fix it, which means Blade and Soul will forever stay a broken game... Which is so sad given its potential... =)

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ARC-1276   
20 hours ago, 876605_1452550437 said:

Almost every class has an ani cancel outside of Destro/KFM.

 

Not our fault you cant figure it out. You do realize the swing time on a destros axe is almost an entire second? The class isnt even viable for the damage it does but rather the CC chaining it brings to PVE. Look at dps charts and youll see destros at the very bottom, why dont you guys complain about FM/Summoner/Sin ani cancelling cause they are at the top of the dps charts. 

It's not that I don't know how to do it. It's that I refuse to. I think it's cheating and unfair. Plus I never heard of ranged classes animation cancel or even seen it happen, so idk dafaqu you're talking about.

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Shukran   

im not angry at silly reason OP posting here.

im angry at pre-copypasted answer he got about his "issue".

 

if there were a real dev answering his ticket he probably have told him that ani-cancel is allowed since age of times.

 

disappointed

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MGT   

The issue is quite simple.

 

1: I can ani-cancel so everything is fine for me, why complain over something allowed in (game)?.

2: I can't ani-cancel and everything is a struggle to do damage needed (in time), do enough damage fast enough on dungeon boss or required damage check for drops, like GHS/SSP.

 

 

 

 

 

2 simple video's showing how much this MATTERS.

And note junghado HP in this version, and it becomes even more crucial.

Edited by MGT

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Zeykes   

First of all, as stated by numerous people here already, animation cancelling is NOT a form of cheating or abuse of game mechanics. It is INTENDED.

Whether or not it was intended from the start at KR launch, or if it was found out later is irrelevant. What matters is that the developers consider this a feature, and as such the game is balanced around it. The game is balanced with animation cancelling in mind. Not using it means not utilizing your class' full potential.

 

Secondly, calling out NC West for poor balance and development decisions is quite silly. They do not develop the game for our regions, they manage it. The developers, who are the ones creating the base content for each region, are a team called Team Bloodlust and they're over in Korea. NC West gathers reports, makes suggestions and forwards them to the development team in Korea who will (if approved) create a patch implementing said suggestions for us.

 

Thirdly, for those of you that think of animation cancelling is unfair due to ping-reliance, I'm sorry. I'm sorry that not everyone has decent internet and/or decent connection to the game server, but most of us do. You cannot balance a game around bad ping.

 

And lastly, to finalize my first point:

20 hours ago, Zanzatora said:

- Please provide a link to whatever official NCSoft statement which says ani-cancel is intentionnal.

Here you go, my good sir. The official response from NCSOFT in one of the million threads already created on this topic. In fact, this dates all the way back to CBT.

(The link should take you directly to the reply, but if it for some reason doesn't, scroll down untill you see the reply from Babbletr0n).

 

TL;DR; Animation cancelling is LEGAL and INTENDED. There is no need to feel "dirty" for utilizing your class' potential to its fullest, it is encouraged.

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ARC-1276   

Being in a p*** video is legal, but does it benefit the whole, and is it moral? No.

 

Does it benefit you? In some cases, yes. 

 

Just because it's allowed, and just because it benefits yourself, it doesn't make it right. I personally would never use it, merely because it's cheap, lousy, stupid, and odds are spawned from a bug. There's also a lack of necessity, so far I can win almost ever duel I'm in as a KFM, without use of animation canceling (well, ever duel I take seriously), with the only reason for me loosing being my extremely low level.

 

I know it's allowed, but I don't think it should be. That's my stance. If you got a problem with it, I don't care. You're not changing my opinion, that's for me to do.

Edited by ARC-1276
Clarification

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On 5/9/2016 at 3:34 PM, AttacKat said:

Here is a video showing the explanation above, where your 600AP pretty much becomes 400AP due to sh*ty ping.

This is bullshit :) , if you mash your attack , you bypass ping. I explain : mash the button 10 times very fast , like in 2 sec, it does 200Ms for the 1st input  so first hit really apply 0.2sec later .

BUT ! the 9 other time you send info to server is still in 2 sec , so 10 hit =/= 200ms x 10 + 2sec, but more  200ms + 2sec. 

So it does not affect anicancel unless you'r waiting a visual signal from the server.

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43 minutes ago, ARC-1276 said:

Being in a p*** video is legal, but does it benefit the whole, and is it moral? No.

 

Does it benefit you? In some cases, yes. 

 

Just because it's allowed, and just because it benefits yourself, it doesn't make it right. I personally would never use it, merely because it's cheap, lousy, stupid, and odds are spawned from a bug. There's also a lack of necessity, so far I can win almost ever duel I'm in as a KFM, without use of animation canceling (well, ever duel I take seriously), with the only reason for me loosing being my extremely low level.

 

I know it's allowed, but I don't think it should be. That's my stance. If you got a problem with it, I don't care. You're not changing my opinion, that's for me to do.

Let's analyze this shall we, your first argument is that being in a porn video is legal, but doesn not benefit the whole and is immoral, but can benefit individuals in some cases as that does not make it right, and this you compare with animation cancelling. 

First things first, being legal it has already been deemed morally acceptable by the society it was made legal in to begin with. 
It doesn't benefit the whole. Well, most things do not. And just because someone has it better than you doesn't make it okay for you to wish them worse, you can wish for yourself to have it better, but wanting others to have it worse is just an evil thing to do. 
Speaking of morals, I think I just pointed out that your view was the one leaning towards evil. Also if you had any knowledge about morals at all you would know that they are subjective, albeit grealy affected by the society in which one live. To make an abundantly clear example, for eskimos it's completely normal to leave their elders to die/kill them off when they can no longer pull their own weight, because the harsh environment doesn't allow it. In any western country, this tradition would probably be shunned where taking care of elders is the common thing to do "...After they raised you". 

"Just because it's allowed, and because it benefits yourself, doesn't make it right." 
Well, it doesn't make it wrong either. You are wishing others benefits away, it's like saying because I don't have free health care in the US people in other countries shouldn't have it either. It's a hollow argument at best at does and not defend your position in any way. 

Its origin has no impact on the way it's used today. Even if it originally came from a 'bug' as you put it, it being taking into consideration for balancing purposes means it has been accepted as a feature instead. Judging something as good or bad from where it once came is a logical fallacy, but I don't reckon you're the type to care about those.

Lastly you argue that there's a lack of necessity, because your subjective experience indicates that playing against those specific players you've encountered indicates that, and IF you lose it's because you have a low level. This indicates to me that you firstly, have probably never seen anything above low gold ranking even after bot inflation, and secondly not being able to accept your losses with others playing better than you. Had you played any high end PvP in this game you'd know that you need to use every option you have to beat the best of the best. 

Finally I dare comment on your "it's allowed but I don't think it should be. That's my stance, if you got a problem with it, I don't care. You're not changing my opinion, that's for me to do". This kind of mentality is the absolutely trashiest the human kind has to offer, you are the type of person to ignore any and all evidence based on "but it doesn't fit my way of thinking", people with this mentality is the reason diseases prevented by vaccines are showing up again, and why *cricket* victims are not allowed to have an abortion. Absolutely disgusting. 

Edited by Ubercharge
Grammar

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OP are u dumb ?
Ani-cancel is a mechanics from the game, not a cheat. 

Until the player use macro to do this, its not a cheat.

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So if you cheat using your fingers it's not cheating.

But if you cheat using a program it's cheating.

 

I fail to see the difference... If there was no animation cancel bug, there would be no macros... problem solved ^^;...?

Edited by Zanzatora

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Shukran   
4 minutes ago, Zanzatora said:

So if you cheat using your fingers it's not cheating.

But if you cheat using a program it's cheating.

 

I fail to see the difference... If there was no animation cancel bug, there would be no macros... problem solved ^^;...?

acrtually no.

anicancel , even if seems so easy , is very ping-related and frame related.

 

for example 3rf KFM is not jsut spamming as fast as possible those 3 keys(and a swarm of other keys, but who care, no brain combo as other says), but timing those pressing at the right moment. 

 

anyway, anicancel or less, macro works for both

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Zetsuei   
23 hours ago, Zanzatora said:

You sound so sure of yourself, yet you have 0 official NCSoft proof of what you say...Did you work on developping the game, that you know how it went to create animations ? I didn't think so.Do you have any statement of NcSoft saying animation cancel is intentionnal ? I didn't think so.You believe you cannot perform actions while moving without animation cancel ? That is soooooo wrong. You just need to put some actions on the same GCD as it is done in soooo many games (just in case it means : global cooldown, also called sometimes universal cooldown).

Everything you say is... baseless, conjuncture and your own wishes.

The only, sadly, true thing about what you say it that NCSoft will probably never fix it, which means Blade and Soul will forever stay a broken game... Which is so sad given its potential... =)

k90rSqS.png - Moderated -. It's not going anywhere, and no one is getting banned for it. It's used in KOREA during tournaments. 

Edited by Ooneka
Content moderated

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1 hour ago, Zanzatora said:

So if you cheat using your fingers it's not cheating.

But if you cheat using a program it's cheating.

 

I fail to see the difference... If there was no animation cancel bug, there would be no macros... problem solved ^^;...?

Let's take a look at your argument then, for the sake of doing things properly. Your argument here is that cheating is cheating, you don't have to be a genius to understand why that's is a horrible argument, but for the sake of discussion let's look at the definition of a cheat, as you seem to love throwing the word around. The full definition given from Wikipedia is the following: 
" Cheating in video games involves a video game player using non-standard methods to create an advantage or disadvantage beyond normal gameplay, in order to make the game easier or harder. Cheats may be activated from within the game itself (a cheat code implemented by the original game developers), or created by third-party software (a game trainer) or hardware (a cheat cartridge). They can also be realised by exploiting software bugs; this may or may not be considered cheating based on whether the bug is considered common knowledge. Software bugs are very often considered software features and as long as they are common knowledge, it is questionable whether it is cheating. "

The only one of these you could possibly be insisting that animation cancelling falls into must be the "exploiting software bugs; this may or may not be considered cheating based on whether the bug is considered common knowledge. Software bugs are very often considered software features and as long as they are common knowledge, it is questionable whether it is cheating."   So let's look at what it says shall we "this may or may not be considered cheating based on whether the bug is considered common knowledge". I think there is absolutely no doubt that it's common knowledge, especially as both community managers and developers have spoken about it, and it's considered a part of every class, meaning that by definition it is now assumed a software feature, but let's keep going shall we. 

Further on, you try to imply that macros are exclusive to animation cancelling? Then you are sorely mistaken, the definition of a macro (in the current context) would be: " [...] a macro is a saved sequence of commands or keyboard strokes that can be stored and then recalled with a single command or keyboard stroke. "  The whole point here for why macros aren't allowed is that it is no longer you, the player that is doing the playing the way it's supposed to be done. You are using a script/bot/program whatever you wanna call it to automate your actions. This can be used for absolutely anything, it could be a loop so you don't have to press anything, or it can be more specific such as a cast sequence. Animation cancelling is only one of the areas macros are used in, but they are banned as a whole. 

I'll +1 the post above mine "now shut up about it", because your case is flawed, if you could even argue you had one to begin with. You are wasting people's time, most notably the support staff and you have absolutely no way to get anywhere with this as cheating, because as I and several others have mentioned, it's considered a feature and not a bug nor cheating. 

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raik7   
On 08/05/2016 at 5:56 AM, Zanzatora said:

So, as all of you know, the technique called "animation-cancel" is actually an abuse of system mechanics. In other words, it's a cheat.

 

Now of course, because NcSoft has been badly handling game balance, some classes simply cannot compete in PvP without resorting to this trick (destro, BD...). I'm not judging.

 

Because NcSoft is leaving the game to be openly abused, I though I would try an experiment on their staff, see where it went

 

 

First phase was to report every anim-cancel player I met in pvp, and since I did quite a lot before Exp event, that meant dozens of players a day. Rest assured, there were also some kfm, sin and sum, not only destros :). Anyways, I was 99% certain nothing would happend on the long run.

 

Second phase was verification. For long and arduous hours, I tracked the people I had reported. Except for 1 bot blinking summoner hack, none of the players were affected by the report. This phase took place 2,5 weeks after initial reports : plenty of time for their so-called " as these investigations take time  " I'm pretty sure anyone of you who has ever reported a player has seen this copy-paste xD. I wouldn't even be surprised it was the same copy-paste as other NC games........... but anyway.

 

Now that I had concrete evidence that NcSoft doesn't give a rat's fart about this kind of cheating, I though it may be time to ask them directly. So I wrote a simple ticket... The part about me representing a group of players is actually true, 2 of them even are destros, hoping for their class to be fixed... *lol*...

The answer from the staff speaks for itself, enjoy...

 


Blade and Soul is supposed to be such a great game, I waited expectantly for it ever since it was first announced in KR... Now I feel I should just leave, as with many cash-shop games, the ones who run the game aren't the developpers but the commercial staff, many of my friends shared that belief (they left the game T_T), and some do, but still have hope things can change (at least they had before I shared this post xD)...

 

So my fellow players... What do you think about NcSoft's answer and their attitude ?

Have you played ANY hack'n'slash game? ALL OF THEM have animation canceling. Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden, God of War and many others... 

I completely disagree with you about the ani-canceling being a cheat.

I agree with you about the cash grab this game become.

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10 hours ago, ARC-1276 said:

Plus I never heard of ranged classes animation cancel or even seen it happen, so idk dafaqu you're talking about.

Like I said, you dont know what youre talking about. 

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