Ember Detonation

[Alilah]

Alright. 

 

So, throughout my career as a FM, I have seen arguments for and against this build. Here's a little about me.

I am level 50 with True Breeze Bangle Stage 5. My AP is 539. 

 

Currently, my build looks like this for PvE.

 

https://bnstree.com/FM?build=5007000255412564126533238342503338041106342513323533300211202124132263212494123932237322432141011

 

Now, what I will do in PvP is start off with Burn, Inferno>BB>Left Click>Right Click>Repeat
Then
Short Fuse>Meteor Storm>BB>Left Click>Right Click>Wildfire>BB>Left Click>Right Click>Repeat
 

For the Ice Phase, I will

Frost Fury>Right Click>Left Click>Focus Blast>Left Click>Right Click>Focus Blast>Repeat until fire phase.

 

My Blazing Beam's will normally hit around 10.9 - 12.1k and my Focus Blast's will normally hit 10.5-11k. 

 

The reason why I use Focus Blast Specc'd is because none of my abilities take away Freeze, and it's easier to keep up on a boss than Burn is, AND using the Focus Blast I'm specc'd into doesn't get rid of it, so it's basically burn, just frozen. Plus it does 2.5k-2.7k more damage on a Freezing enemy. 

 

I've found that detonating the embers does more literal DPS (damage per second), but FM's, even some well known ones such as Red have tried to tell me otherwise by linking me a video where a Korean streamer said "Auto-Det sucks *for this boss*", and that's only because the boss reset the debuffs (much like Mushin does). 

 

The problem with this is they never gave me a legitimate answer as to not use it. It's always just "becuase it sucks" or "because you hit harder in burn" or just because people like seeing bigger numbers all the time.

 

However, I am open to a counter argument. I am very serious about DPSing and I'm very open to suggestions. I'd like some constructional feedback on my build as well, if that's okay. Please, no "BECAUSE IT'S BETTER" or "AUTO-DET SUCKS". I understand that for bosses that reset debuffs it isn't ideal, but for everyone else, I feel like my build is the best. At least, in my opinion. 

 

P.S, I used to be a huge hater of Auto-Det. I normally would just use the regular ol' burning build until a very good FM (sandwichlord) and I got into a heated discussion about it, and then I tried it out for myself, and I haven't gone back since. 

 

I realize that BnS tree (incorrectly) says that Focus Blast only does 78 or so more DMG on Frozen Enemies. So I took SS's of my damage doing Focus Blast without Freeze

 

And with Freeze. 

 

[th4d]

Auto detonate is better when you solo or when you're the only FM in the party.

Your output DPS will be greater.

 

But in party if 2 FM use auto detonate both of them will be screw cause there wont be enough stack for both of them.

 

Usually, auto detonate FM dont reapply burn debuff that screw a burn build FM.

 

So to sum up :

in solo party use whatever you want.

in party use classic burn build it more convenient

[Rasky]

What the guy above said ^

 

I personally have met 2 kinds of Auto-detonate FMs. The ones that use inferno/short-fuse/impact to re-apply the burn, and the ones that don't give a crap about any other FMs. I don't mind Auto-detonate if it's the first kind, the second one really drags the fight longer.

[Dlacik]

Do we rly need to talk about auto-detonate now when there is HM LMB? If you are frost FM and there is a second FM with burn build you will get more dmg with T5S2 LMB thanks to burn he keeps up than you can get from auto-detonate.

[PCComet]

haven't tried this myself, i truly do love burn build because 2 easily hits like a truck and it just seems much easier then waiting for the enemy to get frozen when i can apply the burn myself. Keeping burn up seems faster and neater and attacks like meteor do benefit a lot from it.

 

https://bnstree.com/FM?build=500800025552256323813126533394312503238011106332513323533300322412211033263212494123922237322431141011

 

That's mine, but with the more basic burn build added with fire palm hm because i had the extra points. It can be essentially the same thing with burn but you would definitely need HM impact for it which can be costly and tedious because it isn't a necessity. i seen auto burn FMs and yes they can be tedious when we aren't on the same page and fighting for ember stacks, but i always outdps them as well, but this can also be up for debate as well.

 

BTW, i do recommend you put points into dual dragons or try it out if you haven't, it can easily beat the damage that insta inferno does.

[Alilah]

Just now, PCComet said:

haven't tried this myself, i truly do love burn build because 2 easily hits like a truck and it just seems much easier then waiting for the enemy to get frozen when i can apply the burn myself. Keeping burn up seems faster and neater and attacks like meteor do benefit a lot from it.

 

https://bnstree.com/FM?build=500800025552256423813126533394312503238011106332513323533300222412211033263212494123922237322431141011

 

That's mine, but with the more basic burn build added with fire palm hm because i had the extra points. It can be essentially the same thing with burn but you would definitely need HM impact for it which can be costly and tedious because it isn't a necessity. i seen auto burn FMs and yes they can be tedious when we aren't on the same page and fighting for ember stacks, but i always outdps them as well, but this can also be up for debate as well.

 

BTW, i do recommend you put points into dual dragons or try it out if you haven't, it can easily beat the damage that insta inferno does.

What are you talking about? As a FM, you are constantly using your right click, if you're specc'd correctly, Freeze should be up on an enemy 100% of the time. 

[PCComet]

i specc for the orbs for chill so even if enemy does get frozen maybe i'm oblivious to it since i pay attention to burn buff only. 

[Alilah]

3 minutes ago, PCComet said:

i specc for the orbs for chill so even if enemy does get frozen maybe i'm oblivious to it since i pay attention to burn buff only. 

In PvE, I see no reason to spec for orbs. o.O

[Dlacik]

22 minutes ago, Alilah said:

In PvE, I see no reason to spec for orbs. o.O

Have you seen dual dragons dmg?

[Alilah]

18 minutes ago, Dlacik said:

Have you seen dual dragons dmg?

My dual dragons doesn't hit as hard as my inferno.
My inferno (which I use mostly anyway for the flame orbs) does a max of 21k.

[Dlacik]

@Alilah Try putting three points into dual dragons and test them after that.

[PCComet]

1 hour ago, Dlacik said:

@Alilah Try putting three points into dual dragons and test them after that.

this

 

my 2 hits like 10k -12k

My inferno can get up to 21k

dual dragons gets up to 26k 

 

3 points in dual dragons is really worth it imo

[Rasky]

Not to mention it gives 5 stacks of burn, recovers focus and can hit multiple targets. And well, it looks cool.

[Skaitavi]

You need to spec your RMB to give you a frost orbit on crit, so when you do get 3 stacks, you can Fire Fury F to get 3 stacks of flame orbits, and with those, you can use Dual Dragons. Always have 3 points spec'd into DD. My 2 on a burning enemy hits between 15-17k on crit, while DD crits for around 31k or so.

 

Also, once you have a WL in party, you'll want those orbits to generate so you can constantly cast Awakened Dual Dragons for really massive DPS (Awk DD applies burn, gives 5 focus, and does more damage than regular DD). Weave in T5S2 LMB and your frost-orb-on-crit RMB, and Fire Fury F every 3 Awk DD casts and you should be able to cast it 8 times during a Soulburn. Each Awakened Dual Dragons I cast crits for 38k, or 45k with a KFM/Sin blue buff.

 

As others said, auto det is better if you're solo or the only auto det FM in party. If there is another FM in the party, make sure they're burn. 2 auto det FMs won't work in a party since embers only detonate once, so you'll lose out on DPS overall. The main thing is having burn up 100% of the time. I'm a burn FM, but more often than not, I run into auto det FMs that don't reapply burn, and there's a huge disconnect on burn up time due to them constantly detonating embers.

[Tsuchiryu]

4 hours ago, Alilah said:

In PvE, I see no reason to spec for orbs. o.O

You'd have a point only for the case of you lvling and not having Dual Dragons yet. Otherwise, Dual Dragons benefit from Warlock's Soulburn effect making the skill cost only 1 of each orb for its duration instead of 3, so you'd defintely like to make the most of that skill by generating orbs more often.

[Alilah]

Perhaps when I level and actually have the points to spec into Dual Dragons, I will.

 

However, for right now, my rotation does do the most damage (for me), and I rather not depend on a skill that has a 16 second cooldown, but I definitely will spec into it when I an. Thanks for the advice, guys!

[dmoe33]

Auto detonate is vastly inferior to blazing beam burn, if there was another reliable way to apply burn and keep it up 100% of the time then auto detonate wouldent be so bad but there isnt so it hurts ur dps a lot. Auto detonate annoys me greatly not only does it near half my dps but its also mental torture trying to get a burn off on the 5 stacks. Reason why is blaze beam hits so hard on burn target that it prt much outclasses everything else and now we have hm lb it just improves ur dps output buy so much. Basically 2 main reasons why auto detonate is bad: 1. it halves the potential dmg of blaze beam and hm lb which both have very high dmg especially on burn target and 2. detonations with auto detonate cant crit which honestly even if they could it still wouldent be as good u could also add a 3. that it pisses off every fm in ur pt using burn.

11 hours ago, Alilah said:

My dual dragons doesn't hit as hard as my inferno.
My inferno (which I use mostly anyway for the flame orbs) does a max of 21k.

Depends if ur using insta cast or left, but yea it dosent hit as hard but its an AOE b urn stack bleed effect that hits pretty much the same as insta cast inferno + lower CD. Think of it as just what i said an aoe,instacast,bleed,burnstack, focus regen inferno on a much lower cd(even lower with HM 2) so yea its pretty worth it but the pain is if ur using HM lb u gotta use fire fury.... basically its a lot stronger then u give it credit for mainly for the bleed and aoe

[Kyserzose]

I don't mind an Auto detonate FM also in the party, as long they can "KEEP" burn up!, a fire spec FM without burn buff, the dps is lowered for both burn and auto detonate spec.

 

Two FM in the party should be easy enough to keep burn buff on nonstop by rotating burn buff skills (short fuse, Inferno, Wildfire), unfortunately, too many auto detonate don't bother to timely use those burn skills to keep burn up, leave the burn build loss their dps during burn buff skill cool downs.

 

Auto detonate also counter efficiency of Impact T5S3, which is a dps lost for those burn spec FM with T5S3 Impact.

 

[Tsunakai]

Auto detonate is never alright in any group content situation, and never superior to burn build dps wise. It's only for pvp.