Dailies and me.

[Taywen]

So maybe this is partly a QQ thread, and also partly just curiosity on my part. I've been playing MMORPGs for a very long time. So I'm old school in that sense. I'm used to the holy trinity where certain classes are designed for certain purposes. B&S is really not a whole lot different when you get down to the bare bones of it. Some classes have the ability to tank (KFM, BM, Summoner), and one class has the ability to provide some party healing (Summoner). Notice something here? Yes, one class has the ability to actually provide both functions for their party.

 

Here's what I've noticed while doing dailies in blackram supply, bloodshade harbor, and the blue 45 dungeons. VERY FEW SUMMONERS are specing their Q ability for the taunt. I asked about it last night and the response I got was "it hurts our deeps". I mean seriously, that was the response I got. I have Q sped'd for taunt and I have no problem pulling aggro off my cat or anybody else if I want and I don't even have upgrades beyond true profane on my weapon and true infernal on my accessories yet. So I call pure BS on that answer.

 

Let me give a little backstory. First off, I'd already run the dailies and tanked for all the other people trying to get their dailies done with my BM and Summoner, just like every day. Literally all day, tank tank tank so others don't have to spend their entire boss encounters running for their lives from the bosses. By evening, when I finally got around to getting the dailies done on my FM, every summoner (except one) doesn't have their Q specd for the taunt, and apparently the KFMs and BMs can't be bothered with putting points into their threat skills either because I have to spend all night with a red circle around my feet.

 

When did the MMORPG community become so selfish? Or is this just something unique to B&S? Does the game design promote selfish play? I hope somebody who isn't set to answer with the standard "QQ moar" answer will help me understand what's going on.

[CalamityCait]

I thought people get upset if you cat taunt on boss fights. I don't use it because I don't want to get yelled at.

[dking]

I completely agree with the OP here. I am one of the summoners that does have Q spec for taunt. But I am uncertain on when to use it. Or if it is working at all. Because most of the time the boss is being drug around the room but almost every member in the group.

[Taywen]

4 hours ago, CalamityCait said:

I thought people get upset if you cat taunt on boss fights. I don't use it because I don't want to get yelled at.

That's no problem at all. If I see a KFM or BM in the fight, I don't use Q unless the red circle appears under my own feet. If that happens, then I start using Q whenever the heck I feel I need to. I have a BM. I understand in order to keep aggro, I need to have it in the first place so that's why I wait and see before I start using the cat's taunt. However, in the situation I'm talking about above, there were literally two Summoners in the party that invited me when I was on my FM and neither one of them had it even spec'd for the taunt. Fortunately there was one summoner running around in our channel that did have the taunt spec'd because the BMs and KFMs that night were worthless as tanks. Tonight I actually ran into a few good ones so they do exist. Just rare.

[vita]

I don't trust any BM/KFM that I get in cross-server, never actually seen any that could tank hell they can't even CC properly. So yeah I always spec my Q to taunt, cause the boss will be coming at me when I dps. There was once me and another friend cross-server for Poh 4, got a KFM so we let him have 10s headstart to tank, but once we start attacking, total agro lost, boss going for me or my friend, so we had to tank with cat instead.

 

So nowadays, if pug, I will always taunt, I won't use it right at the start, I will only use it when I see either me or someone else that is not BM/KFM getting agro.

 

My friend told me the other day that pug expect summoner to use Seed shroud for Slashimi aoe, I was like I don't even have it spec, tell them to iframe the thing. I am already tanking, healing, cc-ing and dps-sing, don't expect me to save your ass when you could iframe it.

[Emya]

I have taunt spec-ed as well, except when doing BW.

I have yet to meet someone who'd forbid me to do so in any content except BW.

 

 

 

[Tsuchiryu]

5 hours ago, Emya said:

I have taunt spec-ed as well, except when doing BW.

I have yet to meet someone who'd forbid me to do so in any content except BW.

What's so different about Blackwyrm besides it being 3 lvls higher than our current lvl cap? Never tried to beat him, so that's something which is good to know in advance.

[Eckogen]

18 hours ago, CalamityCait said:

I thought people get upset if you cat taunt on boss fights. I don't use it because I don't want to get yelled at.

Pretty sure that issue is only related to BW.

[rocnogu]

actualy ppl cry how they are better in agro the boss . i do have taunt and i do use it . i just dont care for the ppl .

[Tsuchiryu]

I like this golden rule of 'do not use cat taunt unless you got aggro'. If there's a BM and/or a KFM, it basically means they didn't aggro well enough or the Summoner (or sometimes Force Master, apparently) is better geared, so there's a chance they would lose aggro either way. Or perhaps there's no other tanking class in the party.

 

Also, lack of proper CC is a constant issue in general if you can't do it on your own like, say, Destroyers can. Timing can be a bit strict to react in time, depending on the class/situation. BTW, is it just me or do Summoners not get the Joint Attack button to CC with the cat? Probably just me not paying attention, but I sometimes have a hard time to Joint daze/knockdown with the cat because of this.

[Emya]

@Tsuchiryu As per your question, summs shouldn't taunt at BW when there's someone tanking since it causes "reset" of aggro once taunt effect is lost, and cause mass wipes (see BW rotating around). Also disrupts main tank skill rotation. 

[vita]

 

10 hours ago, Tsuchiryu said:

I like this golden rule of 'do not use cat taunt unless you got aggro'. If there's a BM and/or a KFM, it basically means they didn't aggro well enough or the Summoner (or sometimes Force Master, apparently) is better geared, so there's a chance they would lose aggro either way. Or perhaps there's no other tanking class in the party.

 

Also, lack of proper CC is a constant issue in general if you can't do it on your own like, say, Destroyers can. Timing can be a bit strict to react in time, depending on the class/situation. BTW, is it just me or do Summoners not get the Joint Attack button to CC with the cat? Probably just me not paying attention, but I sometimes have a hard time to Joint daze/knockdown with the cat because of this.

 

Now that you mention it, I don't think we do, not that I notice anyway, but I mostly ran with people from my clan so we all go the proper timing for cc

[Nutrient]

Quite frankly, the only time I spec Q Taunt is when:

- I am soloing Brightstone Ruin. My cat taunt is helpful in that situation.

- Be Ido (second boss in Naryu Labyrinth) so my cat can tank the adds for the party.

- I am in one of the harder dungeons (i.e. BSH4, POH4, LAB4) where the aggro is always on ME. It hinders my DPS so if the designated tank in my party fails to pull aggro off me despite their threat skills, I will have my cat tank for me.

 

Q Taunt is not needed for 24-man. Those bosses are easy enough already and some players in there (i.e. KFM) like to tank the boss themselves with a set rotation. Q Taunt shouldn't be used on Blackwyrm either.

 

BNS is not based on the trinity system. If that's what you're looking for, you're going to have to try a different game.

[Taywen]

11 hours ago, 900040_1452550654 said:

BNS is not based on the trinity system. If that's what you're looking for, you're going to have to try a different game.

Don't look now but B&S has three classes designed to be able to tank. Each one has skills available to increase their threat generation and/or taunt to hold aggro. One class designed so that it can provide party healing. And a few classes that don't do either but do massive amounts of dps. I'd call that the holy trinity. But you keep convincing yourself it isn't so if it makes you feel better.

[dascorp]

I have taunt on my cat for safety...  when oh shit... need to get hate off me moment....  i had two destroyers in naryu lab... neither were tanking... 

[Tsuchiryu]

4 hours ago, dascorp said:

I have taunt on my cat for safety...  when oh shit... need to get hate off me moment....  i had two destroyers in naryu lab... neither were tanking... 

Destroyers are less of tanks than KFM or BM, no? I mean, they got good assortment of CC skills (most notably stun and knockdown) and can restore their health like few other classes can, but aren't as good as the other two classes to generate threat/aggro without anicancel... and maybe not even with that. Especially when you remember they'll be trying to grab for others to DPS better more often than not.

 

So no, Destroyers not tanking is because they really aren't supposed to if I'm not mistaken. They assist with DPS and CC and have good survivability, but they don't tank as in keeping aggro on themselves.

[Pinwheel]

If you are queuing into runs, expect the people to be floorfodder at best, and play accordingly. On the (extremely) rare occasion that someone actually knows how to and is capable of tanking, let them. Otherwise, hold their hands and carry them through like a good summoner.The ones that don't spec taunt are also speccing out of all the utility they have, just to keep their rotation up so they can stand and turret and hope that something doesn't interrupt them or move out of range so they lose stacks and dps tanks. If you are running with friends/guildies, and someone else wants to tank, cool, let them, and you can spec for more dps. Queuing though? Expect to be tanking, and taunt that crap like your run depends on it (because it probably does).

[Nutrient]

You've obviously not played a game with a trinity system - one designated tank and one healer where without either, the run is impossible. But with BNS,you don't need a healer designated to HEAL and CLEANSE you from debuffs. Yes, there are classes that have skills that heal themselves and increase threat levels but that alone doesn't make this game trinity based.

[Aevri]

I use taunt whenever i see fit because i'm tired seeing minor bosses running around chasing people, and melee class best work when the target is stationary. I taunt whenever i see no one able to hold aggro and stand still. Usual results is more group dps on boss. AFAIK taunt is only bad for BW.

 

However it is hard to coordinate the placement of taunt, i do not want cat to roll to the boss back where most meleers are and set a taunt there just so the boss will immediate 180 degree to the back and do a full blast knock downs on everyone. Either that or people running around the boss is putting me in a hard position to set taunt.

[Sayk]

Its not hard to set cat infront of boss, place yourself where you want to taunt, use E so the cat jumps at you, than Q it. :)

[haniexid]

When I pug dungeons, I observe often to see if the other classes can hold aggro. Usually when their HP starts to sink intensely, then I know I have to step in and use cat to taunt. Honestly. sometimes I feel like people dont appreciate us. We heal party and not get noticed too. All we get is, we are scummoners (because of pvp, BW blames) 

[Tsuchiryu]

The impression I get is that Summoners can either be saviors when played right or potentially major contributors to an eventual wipe in especially difficult dungeons if played badly. Doesn't seem to have much middle ground.

 

There's definitely some lvl of 'easy to play, hard to master' to consider with the class, contrary to what some would believe.

[haniexid]

Wholeheartedly, I agree with you. As another person said to me "Easy to learn, lifetime to master" . I think one of the things I am still trying to get better at is pvp and stacking flowers for Super Flower. Don't want to hijack this thread but stacking flowers seems to be a hit or miss for me.

[Tsuchiryu]

I think the major thing that correlates to the point I've made is when to Taunt and when not to. Aggroing in general is likely what helps separate the good Summoners from the bad ones.

 

Rotation for best DPS seems minor compared to aggroing well, is what I'm saying.

[Mishi]

I normally have my cat taunt spec'd. However when it comes to BW, and Yeti, ect... I make sure to have no taunt.