How viable will FM be post lvl-50 patch?

[Truce]

No speculations please, like "FM will be so op/weak because I had hamburger for dinner" type of deal. Just facts that I can look up and confirm please. 

 

I'm looking at korea's arena rank and there are only 7 FM's in top 100, and 45 diamonds, the fewest of all classes I believe. This is a red flag. 

 

Things like how FM has done in recent tournaments in regions with the latest patch (not latest NA patch. latest BnS patch) would be considered good evidence of how viable the class is. 

[Boscodash]

a class is only as good as the players skill. 

[Boscodash]

np fam

[Truce]

1 minute ago, Boscodash said:

a class is only as good as the players skill. 

 

k thx. very informative and factual. 

[Truce]

bump in hope of a non-autistic reply

[fruitie]

FM will be so op because I had hamburger for dinner

[dmoe33]

Fm will be op cause i had a hamburger for dinner. Actually though ur talkin pvp or Pve? cause pve i believe they one of the top ons out there and with chi bomb/ multiple blaze fms will be able to blow up everything. For pvp its really dependent on your skill as stated before (and your ping Kappa) theres jaesung which is like god tier FM for KR and theres madoshi for NA as basically top fm, EU im not sure maybe bevv is top? if u wanna see how they perform in hands of pros at lv  50 look up jaesung(youtube or twitch) if u wanna see now and then bevv/madoshi.

[Truce]

3 minutes ago, dmoe33 said:

Fm will be op cause i had a hamburger for dinner. Actually though ur talkin pvp or Pve? cause pve i believe they one of the top ons out there and with chi bomb/ multiple blaze fms will be able to blow up everything. For pvp its really dependent on your skill as stated before (and your ping Kappa) theres jaesung which is like god tier FM for KR and theres madoshi for NA as basically top fm, EU im not sure maybe bevv is top? if u wanna see how they perform in hands of pros at lv  50 look up jaesung(youtube or twitch) if u wanna see now and then bevv/madoshi.

 

are there sites with recent tournament results? 

[EvaRench]

after 50 in PvE , i think you gonna need BM, FM , WL combo in most of purple dungeons till you reach 50+10

reason ?

without BM , your team will get crushed by boss random attack , Anger Yeti will be impossible to fight against

FM save your team from massive aoe and being main dps

WL is great dps supporter and their lvl 45 skills turn your whole team to beast or they just can activate time distortion near FM (only need to not up 2 skill point in their thrall that aggro mob)

 

[Justsomeone]

34 minutes ago, EvaRench said:

after 50 in PvE , i think you gonna need BM, FM , WL combo in most of purple dungeons till you reach 50+10

reason ?

without BM , your team will get crushed by boss random attack , Anger Yeti will be impossible to fight against

FM save your team from massive aoe and being main dps

WL is great dps supporter and their lvl 45 skills turn your whole team to beast or they just can activate time distortion near FM (only need to not up 2 skill point in their thrall that aggro mob)

 

if the boss random attack how the bm will know when to block? and how time distortion will give your party a huge damage boost with a cooldown of 3min?

[EvaRench]

29 minutes ago, Justsomeone said:

if the boss random attack how the bm will know when to block? and how time distortion will give your party a huge damage boost with a cooldown of 3min?

...

because there is someone to hold the aggro , there will be no random attack like suddenly jump your FM to die , or cast a massive AoE right after finish one

Cat cant do that ... and i saw alot BD failed to hold boss aggro pretending to be BM

WL lvl 45 skills 

- Kamikaze Thrall

- SoulBurn => turn whole team to beast => improved DPS of whole team

- Time Distortion => reset cd of all friendly units around Thrall 3 times in 5 seconds => huge dps buff in 5 seconds , that will be alot for FM and WL

suggest , if there are 2 WL in team , stronger one build TD and weaker one build SB

and Thrall can buff their nearby allies with increase dps (specially ranged attack speed)

WL skill C can help team stand still even in enraged mode 

 

back to the topic 

why FM is main dps , not the freaking OP WL or SUM

- WL can do huge damage in short time , however in a long time fight FM is better, you can up dragon helix instead of dragon call but WL will hardly catch up FM dps

- BURN BURN !!!

- SUM's cat is useless against strong boss , more than useless , bad SUM = team killer , 

- There are some AoE ... very hard to iframe , FM can save team from being wiped out

 

[dmoe33]

19 hours ago, EvaRench said:

...

because there is someone to hold the aggro , there will be no random attack like suddenly jump your FM to die , or cast a massive AoE right after finish one

Cat cant do that ... and i saw alot BD failed to hold boss aggro pretending to be BM

WL lvl 45 skills 

- Kamikaze Thrall

- SoulBurn => turn whole team to beast => improved DPS of whole team

- Time Distortion => reset cd of all friendly units around Thrall 3 times in 5 seconds => huge dps buff in 5 seconds , that will be alot for FM and WL

suggest , if there are 2 WL in team , stronger one build TD and weaker one build SB

and Thrall can buff their nearby allies with increase dps (specially ranged attack speed)

WL skill C can help team stand still even in enraged mode 

 

back to the topic 

why FM is main dps , not the freaking OP WL or SUM

- WL can do huge damage in short time , however in a long time fight FM is better, you can up dragon helix instead of dragon call but WL will hardly catch up FM dps

- BURN BURN !!!

- SUM's cat is useless against strong boss , more than useless , bad SUM = team killer , 

- There are some AoE ... very hard to iframe , FM can save team from being wiped out

 

Ermmm how often are these huge aoes done? cause if they projectile then min downtime of veil is 8s and cd of sheath is 30s....... This is kinda scaring me lol

[Vittora]

17 minutes ago, dmoe33 said:

Ermmm how often are these huge aoes done? cause if they projectile then min downtime of veil is 8s and cd of sheath is 30s....... This is kinda scaring me lol

 

Most will not be too often where FM's sheath isn't reliable. Also FM have double cc skills.

[dmoe33]

4 minutes ago, Vittora said:

 

Most will not be too often where FM's sheath isn't reliable. Also FM have double cc skills.

hmmm ok, also double cc skills which 1ns?

[Teffy]

Yeti at 30% or so start spamm 8 blue ice circles you have to either remove by stepping in them or killing mushrooms,taking an item and throw it into this circles.....or just you have good KFM / FM to make it easier...then he will suck the air in the cave and start slamming the floor,1 timer per ice circle,total 8.ice tab 5 then frost V and noone die,because then he jump in the air and when he hit the ground everyone that got caught from the slams will be 1 shot.

Or nightmare when the scorpion girl port middle and start hitting everyone with aoe...first 3 hits you resist with small scorpions buff,then ice V and noone die.Each hit hurt a lot.

 

Once FM unlock 1 to block approach skills from meles it get easier.And we unlock 1 at the initial 50 patch(part 1 of the book is yeti part 2 nightmare).

[Vittora]

16 minutes ago, dmoe33 said:

hmmm ok, also double cc skills which 1ns?

 

Fire stance Tab can spec into double knockdown or double daze. 3 Can spec into double stun.

[dmoe33]

7 minutes ago, Vittora said:

 

Fire stance Tab can spec into double knockdown or double daze. 3 Can spec into double stun.

The 3 is a givin but the tab isnt really worth the points imo as of right now although it is fun to run it although now i kinda wanna respec it to play around but even then its kinda nota s usefull without the ranged HM skill which will be a lotta points 

[LightningSora]

22 hours ago, Boscodash said:

a class is only as good as the players skill. 

and it's gear.

 

this a mmorpg, wake up *cricket*.

[Boscodash]

1 hour ago, LightningSora said:

and it's gear.

 

this a mmorpg, wake up *cricket*.

he was talking about arena pvp. hint hint 45 diamonds

[Vittora]

2 hours ago, dmoe33 said:

The 3 is a givin but the tab isnt really worth the points imo as of right now although it is fun to run it although now i kinda wanna respec it to play around but even then its kinda nota s usefull without the ranged HM skill which will be a lotta points 

 

I actually don't spec 3 into stun and use knockdown tab. I guess that's because of my build as well since 3 is my only freeze. I spec tab into knockdown for BSH/NSH Blood Mane and for ccing a lot of mobs to help my tank out. Also good for interrupting certain bosses. It's 18 sec cd so it's a lot quicker to use than 36s cd stun. I honestly don't have any other skill to use my points in either haha.

[SeroZeroes]

There wont be enough good BMs or KFMS to go around. So unless you have a fixed party you always run with that has that good BM/KFM, you will rather have a bad summoner more than a bad BM/KFM for public parties.

 

I played my FM to true pirate before switching to SMN as of WL patch because of this very factor. There are hardly any KFMs and BMs in my guild, so I can't count on having a good tank every game. As an FM that has to hold aggro more often than not, I find it a horror to fight bosses, without a block or resist, Q/E/SS iFrames + sheath + veil aint enough for FMs to tank the entire fight. 

 

Why I swapped out FM in view of post-50 patch:

1. You need a good tank, else no matter how great your DPS, you're pretty much dead if the boss gets on you due to FM's kit. You can only freeze yourself and hope aggro goes elsewhere~
2. If summoners get the legend gear + Rosethorn HM that gives free SF on crit, SMNers can pretty much maintain overflow for such long periods of time, you out dps the FM
3. FMs are great for advancing through 45 to 50 and some 50 content, but if you consider a skilled player on both classes, with pretty decent post-50 gear, SMNers bring more to the table, both dps/support/tanking.

Good SMNs are useful with:

1. Enhanced seed shroud (harder to time than FM's ice sheath)
2. Heal (Doom n bloom)
3. A cat to hold that aggro at times (I have not forgotten how many times I wished I had a SMN cat take the aggro off me when I'm FM and my defenses are on cd)
4. Overflow build is amazingly powerful with 5th tier, so DPS is great too
5. You get daze + knockdown + stun + cat-grapple for CCs and to combo with teammates
6. You can put points in Briar Patch to block approach skills
7. Get the cat to do chi-recovery or resurrect members that died.
    

I hate to admit it, but SMN's kit is really good.

 

BUT, to play SMN better than FM on a class level discussion, you will need even more effort/environment observation.

• FMs just focus on when to dodge/DPS rotation/freeze. Burn is easy to maintain compared to photosynthesis stacks.
• SMNers have a harder DPS rotation, chasing the boss to make sure SF lands + overflow is active + timing Nettles+DnB so you always get S.SF procs.
• SMNers have lesser iFrames, boss drops huge AoE? Good luck managing your SS and X.
• Enhanced seed shroud is harder to time than ice sheath for Team Defense
• Sunflower isn't a tracking range attack, you need to aim it well. Bosses that jump around (like poharan) = lost of DPS if you don't react fast enough
• Watch the cat, when to taunt + skill +  protect the cat from AoE (even though ur a range class, you have to notice AoE affecting melee class too)
• SMNers need to build CC with others for knockdown/stun/daze. FMs simply shoot = stun or daze since its 2 stacks.

Conclusion:

• Casual / less stressful gameplay = FM (Amazing DPS and defenses, min effort)
• Hardcore / maximum utility = SMN (Can achieve top DPS/utility, cost: your brain cells and hair follicles)

 

[LightningSora]

11 hours ago, Boscodash said:

he was talking about arena pvp. hint hint 45 diamonds

ah ok, im sorry bro

[Pesto]

well... if we are just talking about viability, then yes, they are viable

 

you kinda proved it yourself in your own statement.

 

there are 7 forcemasters on the KR ladder

 

therefore, 7 people made it work.

 

hence, it's viable.

 

Madoshi remained top of all rankings for US ladder for most of the first preseason, sure he's just one person, but the fact that he can consistently beat out other classes means that FMs are viable, at least for him

 

now, if you were asking a different question like, "how easy is it to make forcemaster work", then i guess the answer would be a little to subjective anyways.

it really comes down to you as a person? if you were one of those 7 people near the top of the kr ladder, i am sure you'd feel fms are viable at top tier play.
 

[Teffy]

I can tank atm easly any boss in BSH 4 and Lab 4 as FM.I would do the same in snake,yeti and nightmare...however I`ll not be able to do so in Snow jade and Prison.Sad life.

[Dray0s]

On ‎10‎/‎03‎/‎2016 at 4:22 AM, SeroZeroes said:

There wont be enough good BMs or KFMS to go around. So unless you have a fixed party you always run with that has that good BM/KFM, you will rather have a bad summoner more than a bad BM/KFM for public parties.

 

I played my FM to true pirate before switching to SMN as of WL patch because of this very factor. There are hardly any KFMs and BMs in my guild, so I can't count on having a good tank every game. As an FM that has to hold aggro more often than not, I find it a horror to fight bosses, without a block or resist, Q/E/SS iFrames + sheath + veil aint enough for FMs to tank the entire fight. 

 

Why I swapped out FM in view of post-50 patch:

1. You need a good tank, else no matter how great your DPS, you're pretty much dead if the boss gets on you due to FM's kit. You can only freeze yourself and hope aggro goes elsewhere~
2. If summoners get the legend gear + Rosethorn HM that gives free SF on crit, SMNers can pretty much maintain overflow for such long periods of time, you out dps the FM
3. FMs are great for advancing through 45 to 50 and some 50 content, but if you consider a skilled player on both classes, with pretty decent post-50 gear, SMNers bring more to the table, both dps/support/tanking.

Good SMNs are useful with:

1. Enhanced seed shroud (harder to time than FM's ice sheath)
2. Heal (Doom n bloom)
3. A cat to hold that aggro at times (I have not forgotten how many times I wished I had a SMN cat take the aggro off me when I'm FM and my defenses are on cd)
4. Overflow build is amazingly powerful with 5th tier, so DPS is great too
5. You get daze + knockdown + stun + cat-grapple for CCs and to combo with teammates
6. You can put points in Briar Patch to block approach skills
7. Get the cat to do chi-recovery or resurrect members that died.
    

I hate to admit it, but SMN's kit is really good.

 

BUT, to play SMN better than FM on a class level discussion, you will need even more effort/environment observation.

• FMs just focus on when to dodge/DPS rotation/freeze. Burn is easy to maintain compared to photosynthesis stacks.
• SMNers have a harder DPS rotation, chasing the boss to make sure SF lands + overflow is active + timing Nettles+DnB so you always get S.SF procs.
• SMNers have lesser iFrames, boss drops huge AoE? Good luck managing your SS and X.
• Enhanced seed shroud is harder to time than ice sheath for Team Defense
• Sunflower isn't a tracking range attack, you need to aim it well. Bosses that jump around (like poharan) = lost of DPS if you don't react fast enough
• Watch the cat, when to taunt + skill +  protect the cat from AoE (even though ur a range class, you have to notice AoE affecting melee class too)
• SMNers need to build CC with others for knockdown/stun/daze. FMs simply shoot = stun or daze since its 2 stacks.

Conclusion:

• Casual / less stressful gameplay = FM (Amazing DPS and defenses, min effort)
• Hardcore / maximum utility = SMN (Can achieve top DPS/utility, cost: your brain cells and hair follicles)

 

I am so used to summoners being called the Easymode faceroll of the game, that hearing them being said to take skill is so alien to me xD