FM cannot beat BM unless BM is mentally challenged

[LittleBritches2]

I know I'm going to get a lot of white knights who say nay anyway so I'm going to speak my mind, un-sugar coated. This game's PvP is literally a joke. Sure some of the match ups in PvP are pretty balanced, but you cannot deny the fact that it is totally paper rock scissors. Let me break down what I'm talking about specifically with a FM BM match up. 

 

The main issue in this match up is the BM block which deflects and stuns within 0.5 seconds of the cast. This skill has a 1 second cooldown (roughly). Obviously seeing as how this deflects from ranged, the BM will spam this ability until he is blue in the face (or gets a successful deflect). So how does the FM counter this type of play? SNOWBALL! Yes snowball, the 30 second cooldown skill that will block the BM from using his block skill IF and ONLY if the FM manages to hit the BM with it while he is actively blocking. This will stop the BM from blocking for 6 whole second and even freeze him if you talent it. FM's also have their grab ability which has an 18 second cooldown. So it seems like the FM has the tools to deal with this cheesy block/deflect spamming class right? DEAD *cricket*ING WRONG!!!

 

Snowball is literally a pile of garbage. Sure you MIGHT land the hit and stop their block for 6 seconds, but all they have to do is use backstep immediately and either stay out of range for just a few seconds, or what most BM's I see do, just charge the FM from half way across the map into a guaranteed stun combo. But wait doesn't FM have a grab ability? They do indeed...except that BM also can tab out of grab every thirty seconds. Grab and snowball are LITERALLY THE ONLY TWO SKILLS that an FM has to get past BM defenses. Considering that FM grab has an 18 second CD and BM tab has a 30 second CD you will get a 12 second window of opportunity to start a combo AFTER you have already made the BM use his tab on your first grab. You can't even use your E and Q as an FM and get behind a BM because their block will deflect from all directions. 

 

So as you can see and probably know if you play either one of these classes and are not just smashing your face on the keyboard, it is completely impossible to win against a Blade Master as a Force Master unless you are literally brain dead. With this in mind, PvP is just a complete joke. I've been PvPing in this game for quite some time, granted I've only reached around 1900 in rank, but if you look at the skills you cannot deny this fact. I and honestly no one else should be able to take this kind of garbage as serious competitive PvP. When you literally are at such a disadvantage from the very beginning that you have no hope of winning against a remotely competition player, it just takes all the fun out of it. It's bad enough that Destroyer, BD, and KFM can all spam deflects every 1.5 seconds, but at least FM has ice tornado for those bastards. So if someone out there has a magic remedy to beating BM's shout it to the rooftops because I'd like to know. Otherwise, I'm moving on to bigger and better things in life and shelfing this game.

 

P.S. Also screw this game's server setup and it's high arena ping

P.S.S Also screw this game's bots and devs for not doing anything

[Michieltjuhh]

Farm the players that farm the BM. Summoners primarily. Problem solved.

Also, to my knowledge neither the parry nor the block effects work from behind. Not that you'll ever get a competent BM frozen without him already smacking you in the face anyway.

[LittleBritches2]

Just now, Michieltjuhh said:

Farm the players that farm the BM. Summoners primarily. Problem solved.

Of course Michieltjuhh! Why didn't I think of that! Oh wait...because you can't pick who you fight in the arena >_> Even if you could that's still stupid as hell. This class is suppose to be all about it's balanced 1v1 arena system. Hardcore paper rock scissors system in a game, especially this game,  is not balanced in the slightest.

[Michieltjuhh]

Yup, but it is what it is. NCSoft refuses to do balance tweaks. Not that it'd be easy anyway, just imagine them shafting BM right now while it's already rubbish against everything but FM and by far the least represented role. They shot themselves in the foot not balancing this during beta.

[LittleBritches2]

I guess you're right...mehhh....completely agree with you on the shooting of the foot. The biggest issue with this game is not really the fact that one class is just way more powerful than another or that one is way weaker than another. Rather it's the fact that certain classes just counter other classes WAY to freaking hard. When I am fighting in arena on my FM I have about a 90% win rate vs Summoners but a 90% lose rate vs BM's. Earlier today I got lucky and fought 8 summoners in a row with a few bots filled in between them. I went up to over 1900 because I just rofl stomped all those matches with ease. Then I got unlucky and fought nothing but BM, BD, and destroyers for 12 matches and went back down to 1750. That's just silly. It's not that I don't know how to fight them, it's just a matter of there is nothing my class can do and that just feels really lame. Fingers crossed BDO doesn't go pay to win after launch in a few days.

[Sorcerer21b]

All the pvp you're talking about here is, unbalanced yes. But then it's not we are missing portions of the game. We're playing at 45 when the game is balanced for level 50 and level 20 hongmoon. So yes, the game is unbalanced for right now. 

As far as BDO, have fun with that. All the videos I've looked up on it, reviews and all state the same thing. 

The Grind is Real.
There isn't any end game pve, just grinding.

End game in pvp, mainly Guild vs Guild.

Also every version of BDO is P2W. They're trying B2P(buy to play) in the western release. But like ther other versions I'd expect it to P2W with the end game focus being PvP or just PvE grinding.

[LittleBritches2]

I guess that is true Sorcerer, we are suppose to be at 50 with more hongmoon skills. Although I'm still not sure that would fix things unless in the upcoming patches they somehow give FM more options to counter block/deflect spam specifically from BM. Also there are other classes they are Paper to someone's Rock that need to be fixed and I'm just a little skeptical of lvl 50 and some more hongmoon skills fixing that. Also, when are we even going to get that? I fear this game will be long gone and dead by time it finally gets here. Especially after all the recent escapades with the ongoing arena bot problem and high arena ping. Jeasung DW has already gone back to playing on the Korean servers. I'm assuming it's because for two of his videos in a row all he was doing was fighting bots. 

 

As far as Black Desert goes I respect your opinion but I must tell you that you have been severely mislead by the general public whiners. People don't see strict raiding and dungeons in BDO and so they go screaming that there is no endgame content. Not true at all. There is plenty of endgame, but better yet it's not really end game. You can start doing all the "endgame" stuff right from the start and don't have to wait until max level to actually start having fun. The world is what you make it in BDO, not what the developers give you in linear content. Think skyrim. 

 

As far as Pay to Win goes, the Western release is not P2W at the moment. The publishers actually got a lot of flack from the western community about the Pay 2 Win cash shop stuff and so they have removed it. This doesn't mean that the game still can't go down that road, which is why I mentioned that I hope it doesn't. 

 

PvP is a big part of the endgame, but is much more than just guilds killing guilds for the sake of killing. Rather guilds are competing for castes and nodes around the map throughout the week. I think this creates an awesome environment for some really cool organic events between players. For me at least the best times I've had in an MMO was when I was doing events with other players and friends. I really feel the world that Pearl Abyss has made in BDO will create a lot of those fun memories ^_^ It might not, but I hope. Anyway, if you are interested in BDO and want someone reliable to give you info about it, go check out PvTWiggles stream on Twitch or his YouTube channel. 

[Sygmaelle]

52 minutes ago, Sorcerer21b said:

All the pvp you're talking about here is, unbalanced yes. But then it's not we are missing portions of the game. We're playing at 45 when the game is balanced for level 50 and level 20 hongmoon. So yes, the game is unbalanced for right now. 

As far as BDO, have fun with that. All the videos I've looked up on it, reviews and all state the same thing. 

The Grind is Real.
There isn't any end game pve, just grinding.

End game in pvp, mainly Guild vs Guild.

Also every version of BDO is P2W. They're trying B2P(buy to play) in the western release. But like ther other versions I'd expect it to P2W with the end game focus being PvP or just PvE grinding.

Which is what any mmo should be. A long, long, long grind in hostile territories where every action should bring up consequences. 

 

Either way, nope FM won't really get better as far as melee block / counter goes, you ll have another dash in the back tho that WILL help a lot in order to avoid all these jumps and whatnot.

 

Your main counter as a FM is your 4 button. Destroyer / Kfm jumping ? 4. Assassin coming in the back ? turn around and 4. You can also instant freeze when they re doing this. You have pleeeenty of tools to keep nuking at range, some skills go through def / parry etc, use them. 

[Diradem]

1 hour ago, Michieltjuhh said:

Yup, but it is what it is. NCSoft refuses to do balance tweaks. Not that it'd be easy anyway, just imagine them shafting BM right now while it's already rubbish against everything but FM and by far the least represented role. They shot themselves in the foot not balancing this during beta.

 

It's not that NCSoft refuses to do balance tweaks... It's that we will never have an exclusive balance tweak. Balance is done over in Korea and then brought to the other regions. You will see changes, but everyone that posts in this forum asking for changes, NCWest does not have said powers. Also good to note that Korea tends to base balance off how the tournaments go. 

 

As it stands, in our current 45 patch, which I will admit is not that well balanced, given the game was designed for level 50 content, I can see where the frustration comes from. Hopefully at 50 the matchup becomes better. On a positive note, BMs are probably one of the least played classes.

[LittleBritches2]

3 minutes ago, Diradem said:

 

It's not that NCSoft refuses to do balance tweaks... It's that we will never have an exclusive balance tweak. Balance is done over in Korea and then brought to the other regions. You will see changes, but everyone that posts in this forum asking for changes, NCWest does not have said powers. Also good to note that Korea tends to base balance off how the tournaments go. 

 

As it stands, in our current 45 patch, which I will admit is not that well balanced, given the game was designed for level 50 content, I can see where the frustration comes from. Hopefully at 50 the matchup becomes better. On a positive note, BMs are probably one of the least played classes.

 

That's actually one of the reason's I'm really hopeful for Black Desert. Pearl Abyss actually made their own company (Daum) to produce the game in EU/NA. Which means that Daum actually has a lot of close connections with Pearl Abyss and has a lot of say in things such as balance, content, ect. It's so frustrating in BnS where our complaints will never be heard because the producers have no power over things like balance. 

 

Yes, that is true that they are one of the least played classes. However it still just makes me not want to play the game knowing that there is a chance of running into a class that I don't have a fair attempt at beating. If there was nothing else to play I would maybe put up with it, but honestly there are just better games out there at the moment. Even without a replacement game it's hardly worth it how it is at the moment with all the extra crap like bots and lag. Luckily Black Desert will at least keep me entertained as I learn about the game and world for a while. 

[Althaea]

If it makes you feel any better, just remember that BMs feel just like you did against pretty much every other class.

[TheRealBronx]

How you feel about BM, is how BMs feel about Destroyers, Summoners, Blade Dancers, and Kung Fu Masters.

 

We had to have at least 1 positive match-up, it just happened to be your class.

 

So to sum it up, BM's have:

 

- 1 advantageous match-up (FM)

 

- 2 skill match-ups (Sin, BM)

 

- 4 disadvantageous match-ups (everyone else)

 

Suck it up, you don't have it so bad.

[Gratus]

48 minutes ago, TheRealBronx said:

How you feel about BM, is how BMs feel about Destroyers, Summoners, Blade Dancers, and Kung Fu Masters.

 

We had to have at least 1 positive match-up, it just happened to be your class.

 

So to sum it up, BM's have:

 

- 1 advantageous match-up (FM)

 

- 2 skill match-ups (Sin, BM)

 

- 4 disadvantageous match-ups (everyone else)

 

Suck it up, you don't have it so bad.

 

Point was that a rock-paper-scissors system hardly works competitively. And I agree, even if you have the possibility to outplay your opponent. Skill differences usually aren't so big, so the match-up has a huge impact on the outcome.

[LittleBritches2]

49 minutes ago, TheRealBronx said:

How you feel about BM, is how BMs feel about Destroyers, Summoners, Blade Dancers, and Kung Fu Masters.

 

We had to have at least 1 positive match-up, it just happened to be your class.

 

So to sum it up, BM's have:

 

- 1 advantageous match-up (FM)

 

- 2 skill match-ups (Sin, BM)

 

- 4 disadvantageous match-ups (everyone else)

 

Suck it up, you don't have it so bad.

 

 

Oh I completely agree mate. BM's have it way worse than FM's as far as matchups go. I guess my point now is more about the fact that all classes for the most part have these huge matchup disadvantages. And that type of style really just can't be taken seriously as a competitive game (which is the only reason I play it). Basically what Gratus said with a bunch of fluff added.

[Teffy]

At 50 we unlock 1 T5S1which will help by a mile against them.We lack some vital skills atm to balance the fight vs classes that have dozen of charges.Atm only way to block ther charges is by Iframe or V/Tab which is tricky.At 50 if you are not mentally retarded you can time 1 to block ther charge.

[LittleBritches2]

6 hours ago, Teffy said:

At 50 we unlock 1 T5S1which will help by a mile against them.We lack some vital skills atm to balance the fight vs classes that have dozen of charges.Atm only way to block ther charges is by Iframe or V/Tab which is tricky.At 50 if you are not mentally retarded you can time 1 to block ther charge.

 

Well that will be really nice, however even if you manage to block the charge that really isn't going to do much for your offensive ability against a BM. FM's problem when fighting BM is not that FM lacks defense, it's that it lacks any opportunities to do damage. There are simply no openings for a FM against a decent BM. 

[Teffy]

My problem vs them is exactly this dozens of charges.If I can block them I can wait to time my snowball for 6 sec dps window after ther blade call.We do have the tools for insane burst even now.C + V + X + LB/RB/Blazing beam and you can burn even destro in matter of few sec.It's really scarry burst dmg build.

[Second]

7 hours ago, TheRealBronx said:

How you feel about BM, is how BMs feel about Destroyers, Summoners, Blade Dancers, and Kung Fu Masters.

 

We had to have at least 1 positive match-up, it just happened to be your class.

 

So to sum it up, BM's have:

 

- 1 advantageous match-up (FM)

 

- 2 skill match-ups (Sin, BM)

 

- 4 disadvantageous match-ups (everyone else)

 

Suck it up, you don't have it so bad.

Even tho BM vs Sin is skill match-up, BM is underdog still in this match-up. Even HanJunHo said that it's almost impossible to beat summoners or sins as BM in this patch. Altho Han said that, I think he is little bit biasing of the Sin matchup since he has learned to use all the HM skills and charge seals, but still.

For the OP, you have greater balance than BM. Of course PVP is not balanced when we are folllowing Korea's patch notes and we are way behind. Just keep waiting for the balance updates and you'll be in better situation. For now, we can only practice and lose.

[LittleBritches2]

3 minutes ago, Teffy said:

My problem vs them is exactly this dozens of charges.If I can block them I can wait to time my snowball for 6 sec dps window after ther blade call.We do have the tools for insane burst even now.C + V + X + LB/RB/Blazing beam and you can burn even destro in matter of few sec.It's really scarry burst dmg build.

 

If you are against a BM with any competency and IF you successful stop his block he will just backstep, then either charge you, use blade barrier, or stay out of range. Once those 6 seconds are gone you don't get another opening. Also a big emphasis on the IF regarding snowball. Most skilled BM's will not simply stand in one place and hold block, those are the scrubs in silver  and low gold. Anyone decent will actually time deflects and even bait your snowball so you waste it and there isn't anyway to predict whether the BM is baiting or not. Usuaully vs a good BM you are just making your best guess as to when to cast snowball. 

[Justsomeone]

7 hours ago, TheRealBronx said:

How you feel about BM, is how BMs feel about Destroyers, Summoners, Blade Dancers, and Kung Fu Masters.

 

We had to have at least 1 positive match-up, it just happened to be your class.

 

So to sum it up, BM's have:

 

- 1 advantageous match-up (FM)

 

- 2 skill match-ups (Sin, BM)

 

- 4 disadvantageous match-ups (everyone else)

 

Suck it up, you don't have it so bad.

every class has problem with those classes so what is your point? fm is at the bottom since they can add bm to the list

[Teffy]

27 minutes ago, LittleBritches2 said:

 

If you are against a BM with any competency and IF you successful stop his block he will just backstep, then either charge you, use blade barrier, or stay out of range. Once those 6 seconds are gone you don't get another opening. Also a big emphasis on the IF regarding snowball. Most skilled BM's will not simply stand in one place and hold block, those are the scrubs in silver  and low gold. Anyone decent will actually time deflects and even bait your snowball so you waste it and there isn't anyway to predict whether the BM is baiting or not. Usuaully vs a good BM you are just making your best guess as to when to cast snowball. 

 

Noone said they will stand but practice make perfect.And I didn't said it's easy match.However is not impossible either. Blade call has 1 min CD is not like they can spam it all the time and is not like you will throw snowball every 24 sec.Timing is the key to catch them.They will definitely tab if you catch them with stun from 3(Q or E behind them)and then is a moment to grab them and try to cc them for burst.It's very had match indeed but not impossible.

I watched FM's in TW using 1 and it's like omfg amazing skill and very op :P

I can't wait to practice it myself.Now all I do is playing mind games with them BM's hoping for this miracle moment to chain CC them and try to burst....or atleast to deal more dmg then they do.Hard as hell fights but honestly I enjoy them much more then vs BD or Summoners.Especially those summoners that socket 55000 type of KD/Stun/Grapple/Airbone on ther cat on top of slow.

 

In Eu there is few BM's that are very often in TOP 10.Either they are gods walking on earth or you are just exaggerating how impossible is vs this or that.Obviously it seems is not.Atm 5 in top 20.Only 1 BD thu.

[LittleBritches2]

Just now, Teffy said:

 

Noone said they will stand but practice make perfect.And I didn't said it's easy match.However is not impossible either. Blade call has 1 min CD is not like they can spam it all the time and is not like you will throw snowball every 24 sec.Timing is the key to catch them.They will definitely tab if you catch them with stun from 3(Q or E behind them)and then is a moment to grab them and try to cc them for burst.It's very had match indeed but not impossible.

I watched FM's in TW using 1 and it's like omfg amazing skill and very op :P

I can't wait to practice it myself.Now all I do is playing mind games with them BM's hoping for this miracle moment to chain CC them and try to burst....or atleast to deal more dmg then they do.Hard as hell fights but honestly I enjoy them much more then vs BD or Summoners.Especially those summoners that socket 55000 type of KD/Stun/Grapple/Airbone on ther cat on top of slow.

 

I agree practice is key in this game as well as knowing your opponents abilities and strategy. However there is no practicing landing snowball. It is simply out of your hands whether or not you land it, it has very little to do with your skill. Rather you just have to wait for the BM to screw up or you have to get strait lucky, and if neither of those happen, you're dead. Also, BM is not always going to tab out of FM 3 stun. Also on top of that, you have to land 3 on the BM which you can't do unless they suck. They will simply block/deflect you. I'm sure there are things you CAN do to increase your chances of winning against a BM, but the problem is if you put two equally skilled players against each other, one FM and one BM, the BM is going to win everytime. That is dumb, hence this game is dumb at the moment at least.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

19 hours ago, LittleBritches2 said:

Cry cry cry cry QQ, cry me a river

 You do realize that's EXACTLY how

 

1. Summoners

2. Destroyers

3. Hell, even Sins

 

Feel about FM, right? Why are you crying about BM? You are on of those FMs that think they are ranged, aye? Nah, you are not. Double air combo requires being in range, to get most of your skills you do it after Grip/Q/E so you need to be in range to use those. Snowball lets you do your whole RT1 combo and shit on anyone. What? He SS'd? What a bummer, learn to use your skills in less obvious ways. After Q and E maybe? Most people don't expect instant Glacial Beam/Snowball right after freezing. (Do note I mean FREEZING, not unfreezing. People think we will stay in it for few seconds for cooldowns etc). And for the rest, just mix it up. Of course, they are easy, but what did you expect if you spam RT hoping to get 3 chill stacks? 1900 MMR? No wonder, Destro bots are ez pz til 1700 (then they disappear, they can't get higher), then we have army of Sins and Scumms because Destros are also ez pz for them. Thank God both Scummoners AND Sins are ez pz for us. Instead of whining "this matchup is impossible" change your tactics. Bevv did 49-0 on FM

 

http://www.bladeandsouldojo.com/topic/158010-diamond-on-fm-without-loss-49-0/

 

Sooo, QQ more.

[LittleBritches2]

4 minutes ago, Nebuchadnezzar said:

 You do realize that's EXACTLY how

 

1. Summoners

2. Destroyers

3. Hell, even Sins

 

Feel about FM, right? Why are you crying about BM? You are on of those FMs that think they are ranged, aye? Nah, you are not. Double air combo requires being in range, to get most of your skills you do it after Grip/Q/E so you need to be in range to use those. Snowball lets you do your whole RT1 combo and shit on anyone. What? He SS'd? What a bummer, learn to use your skills in less obvious ways. After Q and E maybe? Most people don't expect instant Glacial Beam/Snowball right after freezing. (Do note I mean FREEZING, not unfreezing. People think we will stay in it for few seconds for cooldowns etc). And for the rest, just mix it up. Of course, they are easy, but what did you expect if you spam RT hoping to get 3 chill stacks? 1900 MMR? No wonder, Destro bots are ez pz til 1700 (then they disappear, they can't get higher), then we have army of Sins and Scumms because Destros are also ez pz for them. Thank God both Scummoners AND Sins are ez pz for us. Instead of whining "this matchup is impossible" change your tactics. Bevv did 49-0 on FM

 

http://www.bladeandsouldojo.com/topic/158010-diamond-on-fm-without-loss-49-0/

 

Sooo, QQ more.

 

 

LMAO this has to be the best troll I've seen in a while. Firstly I'm not sure what your "quote" is about because I never said that. Nice job abusing the terrible quote system.

 

Secondly, I'm not QQing about not being able to beat a BM on my FM. That is not the point of this thread if you would simply read you twit. I am saying that the insane advantages and disadvantages of some match ups in this game for certain classes is absurd. I am simply using the FM BM match up as an example because I am most familiar with those classes. 

 

As to your "strategies" of playing a FM, most of that is banking on you fighting a brainless BM. Any BM worth his salt is just going to block as soon as you break your ice barrier or instantly stun you. Again as I said, you can juke around and play mind games with a BM as to when you throw your snowball at them, but you are never REALLY using skill or timing but rather just making your best guess. The incredibly bad lag in arena also makes it even more impossible to time snowball. 

 

As to the FM that went 49 and 0 bravo to him. I'd be interested to see how exactly he did that as I am highly skeptical. No one is QQing here Nebuchadnezzar, so please quit acting butt hurt and join the discussion like a civilized human being if you are capable of that. If not please troll someone else.

[Teffy]

45 minutes ago, LittleBritches2 said:

 

I agree practice is key in this game as well as knowing your opponents abilities and strategy. However there is no practicing landing snowball. It is simply out of your hands whether or not you land it, it has very little to do with your skill. Rather you just have to wait for the BM to screw up or you have to get strait lucky, and if neither of those happen, you're dead. Also, BM is not always going to tab out of FM 3 stun. Also on top of that, you have to land 3 on the BM which you can't do unless they suck. They will simply block/deflect you. I'm sure there are things you CAN do to increase your chances of winning against a BM, but the problem is if you put two equally skilled players against each other, one FM and one BM, the BM is going to win everytime. That is dumb, hence this game is dumb at the moment at least.

 

There is.You wait him to SS(and most obviously he will try to charge at you like all of them doing after they clean the chill)and if you manage to block hes charge with ice V and jump behind him with Q/E or SS(with the amazing Freezing effect that saved the day so many times and I doubt just for me)and RB(from my observation after you jump behind them and use RB they always use 1,like 99.9% of them) is time for snowball.He don't have SS and obviously you used the moment when hes blade call is on CD.Your moment.

This of course is like perfect case scenario but you have to work hard to get this split second moment for your advantage.But honestly some BM's are like gods and so damn unpredictable and in such at second fight I switch to Frost Tornado.Atleast I have time to DPS them but meanwhile I have to play a retard abusing every possible ice/Iframe I have or is no game at all.

Watching asian FM's with ther 1 T5 make me so envy.

 

And to whoever point bevv....he is skilled no shit and he had only 4 years to practice what he know now.Most of us didn't.