blade master vs summoner cant be done. sry.. it cant

[Dalapie]

there is no tactic to this.. there is no way, you win if your lucky, but 90% of the time you just lose and must face the fact, no matter how well you play

 

reasons..

 

the cat disrupt your targeting making you focus him every time

 

the summoner can EASILY get out of your lightning trap and make the pet take no damage in the duration

 

when the pet is knocking you down you get 100-0 in sun beams for the duration... 

 

i know the game isnt balanced around 45 pvp but why, why is the diffrence SO  huge that i cannot do anything but quit the match before it even starts .... i simply cannot get rating this way.

[amorent]

Just reroll a scummoner for easy plat. I was watching earlier a guy on twitch he got plat in one session at level 33 after playing it for a less than a day ( 2 losses due to dc, and another loss to a scummoner) It was disgusting to watch. He was stuck at gold for a while as fm before that. Scummoners are a joke of a class so don't feel bad

[Nachtdrache]

18 minutes ago, Dalapie said:

there is no tactic to this.. there is no way, you win if your lucky, but 90% of the time you just lose and must face the fact, no matter how well you play

 

reasons..

 

the cat disrupt your targeting making you focus him every time

 

the summoner can EASILY get out of your lightning trap and make the pet take no damage in the duration

 

when the pet is knocking you down you get 100-0 in sun beams for the duration... 

 

i know the game isnt balanced around 45 pvp but why, why is the diffrence SO  huge that i cannot do anything but quit the match before it even starts .... i simply cannot get rating this way.

 

You really can't use your normal build against them. I got full aoe build which works well. Below is what I use.

 

https://bnstree.com/BM?build=45000021004311532110211383111131105231262110811205311042214232603210032213211

 

Typically my opener is going to be fly in and use RB aoe stun if they dont have their resist bubble up. If it is up I just fly to the other side of the map until it wears off.

 

So RB flight stun -> Q or SS-> 3 -> V->C-> RB -> LB -> F -> Tab -> is the opener I use on the summnoner if the cat is still by him this will drop pet will below 50% from the aoe damage and if pet is close at the beginning both will get knocked up from your 3. At this point you can choose to LB or you can 2->F-Lb-Lb the summoner or cat both should be well under 40% assuming the cat isn't already dead.

 

You can usually hardswap to the cat after this first opener as the summoner will run but be sure to keep an eye out for if the pet is crouching and glowing gren (90% dmg reduction) or summoner is trying to heal the pet. If either of these are happening stay on the summoner.

[Daymon]

Common strategy is to put the cat in coma with the unconcious skill. The hardest part of being BM against summoner is that you can't put the cat in coma like other classes. BM require a target to block, and the cat barely do that. 

The most notable thing I have seen on most fights against summoner as BM is that they usually pull the summoner along with the cat in order to stun both and do dmg on both, sometimes a slight stun on the cat and full dps on summoner. One thing they have in common, all use the pull skill from blade throw in order to get that little shit from hitting you with sun flower afar.

[Dalapie]

Just now, Nachtdrache said:

 

You really can't use your normal build against them. I got full aoe build which works well. Below is what I use.

 

https://bnstree.com/BM?build=45000021004311532110211383111131105231262110811205311042214232603210032213211

 

Typically my opener is going to be fly in and use RB aoe stun if they dont have their resist bubble up. If it is up I just fly to the other side of the map until it wears off.

 

So RB flight stun -> Q or SS-> 3 -> V->C-> RB -> LB -> F -> Tab -> is the opener I use on the summnoner if the cat is still by him this will drop pet will below 50% from the aoe damage and if pet is close at the beginning both will get knocked up from your 3. At this point you can choose to LB or you can 2->F-Lb-Lb the summoner or cat both should be well under 40% assuming the cat isn't already dead.

 

You can usually hardswap to the cat after this first opener as the summoner will run but be sure to keep an eye out for if the pet is crouching and glowing gren (90% dmg reduction) or summoner is trying to heal the pet. If either of these are happening stay on the summoner.

i must admit it seems interresting. but here is a downside.. you RARELY can get to the summoner with the RB flight stun before he shoots at you in the air and your down to nothing, then how do you approach it?, 

[Nachtdrache]

1 minute ago, Dalapie said:

i must admit it seems interresting. but here is a downside.. you RARELY can get to the summoner with the RB flight stun before he shoots at you in the air and your down to nothing, then how do you approach it?, 

 

I land mine often actually as the only thing that stops you will be their root which for some reason works in the air (*cricket* logic) If you do get rooted in the air you can just SS+3 and start the combo if you're close enough. If not then SS to break root, Parry pet charge and then 2stun/charge into the starting air combo and follow the same path switching the 3->v->c>rb->lb to 2->F>v>c following the same procedure you just swap the 3 and 2 airborne combos at the beginning and end.

 

As always this is an ideal starter but if you're chasing summoner pet will usually be close enough to get this off.

[Nachtdrache]

Just as an fyi,

 

the F while knocked down is an aoe so if you're really luck you can use it at the end of each air combo as well as using your 3 knockdown into it.

 

If everything goes according to plan You'll get a full blade call, lightning rod, Lunar slash (4500+ crits since not using daze), and 2-3x divebombs (2500ish dmg each) on both the cat and summoner.

 

[Dalapie]

Just now, Nachtdrache said:

Just as an fyi,

 

the F while knocked down is an aoe so if you're really luck you can use it at the end of each air combo as well as using your 3 knockdown into it.

 

If everything goes according to plan You'll get a full blade call, lightning rod, Lunar slash (4500+ crits since not using daze), and 2-3x divebombs (2500ish dmg each) on both the cat and summoner.

 

thx alot, i will try this out, seems good :)

[Nachtdrache]

2 minutes ago, Dalapie said:

thx alot, i will try this out, seems good :)

 

Give it a shot, I make no promises but it works for me. I'm at about a 50/50 win rate against summoners.

 

As always if you're not level 45 it makes a world of difference were super reliant on skill points.

[Nachtdrache]

22 minutes ago, Daymon said:

Common strategy is to put the cat in coma with the unconcious skill. The hardest part of being BM against summoner is that you can't put the cat in coma like other classes. BM require a target to block, and the cat barely do that. 

The most notable thing I have seen on most fights against summoner as BM is that they usually pull the summoner along with the cat in order to stun both and do dmg on both, sometimes a slight stun on the cat and full dps on summoner. One thing they have in common, all use the pull skill from blade throw in order to get that little shit from hitting you with sun flower afar.

 

This is good advice for keeping them together especially if you dont have an SS to get out of their root...bring the crappy little scummoner to you for the beating instead.

 

Agreed, on other classes I'd say use 30sec sleep but its not even remotely viable or reliable on our class.

[Dalapie]

Just now, Nachtdrache said:

 

This is good advice for keeping them together especially if you dont have an SS to get out of their root...bring the crappy little scummoner to you for the beating instead.

 

Agreed, on other classes I'd say use 30sec sleep but its not even remotely viable or reliable on our class.

man seems like i might need some actual training from you , could use some good tips and tricks vs diffrent situations :P , hope target dummies in mushins tower will help me, if i can stun them that is and keep track of my abilites on it

[Pbblade]

I don't think winning vs a good summoner is possible, S_PvP is a diamond ranked BM that wins less then 50% vs gold summoners, let alone platinum+.

Our only real windows are anklebiter, tab (3 sec daze), 3 in draw stance and flicker if you hit both in order to dps freely, all the other cc's or aerial combos can get denied by the pet. We can't get bladecall, because the pin down from cat requires 3 in flock or you're litterally toast. It has a 1 min cooldown so if you cannot beat the summoner before they have another pindown, forget about it. Even grapple escaping tab won't be enough.

They heal for a shitton and do more damage then you. You're limited to 4 cc's if perfectly executed and don't forget they can flower block the anklebiter, making it 3. In a span of 8 seconds, there is absolutely NO way you can kill a half brained summoner. 

Scenarios.

Charge opener is no option, either bubble and yolo or shoot from max range will beat your charge LMB/RMB.
During 3 sec tab daze, they can F back. Byebye cc.
During anklebiter they can sit on the ground with flower spam
Once you flicker into A RMB RMB 2, they can jump out with tab
3 is usually the only thing that does damage which ofcourse gets completely nullified by their heals.
 

[Nachtdrache]

12 hours ago, Dalapie said:

man seems like i might need some actual training from you , could use some good tips and tricks vs diffrent situations :P , hope target dummies in mushins tower will help me, if i can stun them that is and keep track of my abilites on it

 

Remember you can train on pigs in hogshead area but if you're trying CC chains they have a 20% CC reduction like all NPCs which can be bypassed by getting a necklace from the pvp faction vendors in moonwater.

12 hours ago, Pbblade said:

I don't think winning vs a good summoner is possible, S_PvP is a diamond ranked BM that wins less then 50% vs gold summoners, let alone platinum+.

Our only real windows are anklebiter, tab (3 sec daze), 3 in draw stance and flicker if you hit both in order to dps freely, all the other cc's or aerial combos can get denied by the pet. We can't get bladecall, because the pin down from cat requires 3 in flock or you're litterally toast. It has a 1 min cooldown so if you cannot beat the summoner before they have another pindown, forget about it. Even grapple escaping tab won't be enough.

They heal for a shitton and do more damage then you. You're limited to 4 cc's if perfectly executed and don't forget they can flower block the anklebiter, making it 3. In a span of 8 seconds, there is absolutely NO way you can kill a half brained summoner. 

Scenarios.

Charge opener is no option, either bubble and yolo or shoot from max range will beat your charge LMB/RMB.
During 3 sec tab daze, they can F back. Byebye cc.
During anklebiter they can sit on the ground with flower spam
Once you flicker into A RMB RMB 2, they can jump out with tab
3 is usually the only thing that does damage which ofcourse gets completely nullified by their heals.
 

 

They are one of our harder matchups but if you go into it thinking you're going to lose and not trying to improve or change your strategy more often than not you'll be right.

[Pbblade]

33 minutes ago, Nachtdrache said:

 

Remember you can train on pigs in hogshead area but if you're trying CC chains they have a 20% CC reduction like all NPCs which can be bypassed by getting a necklace from the pvp faction vendors in moonwater.

 

They are one of our harder matchups but if you go into it thinking you're going to lose and not trying to improve or change your strategy more often than not you'll be right.

Very hard changing your strategy when options are very limited though. that's my point. playing against a summoner who knows your skill somewhat will make you eat dirt.

Needless to say, i do enter my games with a very optimistic mindset because even if i'm at a disadvantage, i have a ton to learn still and that's what's most important for me right now. I'll take on any match against any class/player.

[Kutsuu]

13 hours ago, Pbblade said:

I don't think winning vs a good summoner is possible, S_PvP is a diamond ranked BM that wins less then 50% vs gold summoners, let alone platinum+.

Our only real windows are anklebiter, tab (3 sec daze), 3 in draw stance and flicker if you hit both in order to dps freely, all the other cc's or aerial combos can get denied by the pet. We can't get bladecall, because the pin down from cat requires 3 in flock or you're litterally toast. It has a 1 min cooldown so if you cannot beat the summoner before they have another pindown, forget about it. Even grapple escaping tab won't be enough.

They heal for a shitton and do more damage then you. You're limited to 4 cc's if perfectly executed and don't forget they can flower block the anklebiter, making it 3. In a span of 8 seconds, there is absolutely NO way you can kill a half brained summoner. 

Scenarios.

Charge opener is no option, either bubble and yolo or shoot from max range will beat your charge LMB/RMB.
During 3 sec tab daze, they can F back. Byebye cc.
During anklebiter they can sit on the ground with flower spam
Once you flicker into A RMB RMB 2, they can jump out with tab
3 is usually the only thing that does damage which ofcourse gets completely nullified by their heals.
 

 

I've had much less success against summoners speccing for grapple break flock of blades. I use my tab on the first grapple, and if the fight has gone on long enough for the second grapple it's over anyway because they have so much more sustain. Blade Call at least gives the opportunity to burst something down. This is my experience at least. 

[Kuromei]

I just started pvp but what I found that works is killing the cat asap then getting a good stun into lightning draw lmb f cancel. she's so squishy she dies or is close to death. I'm only silver though so idk how higher tier summoners play.

[Graye]

 

14 hours ago, Nachtdrache said:

 

You really can't use your normal build against them. I got full aoe build which works well. Below is what I use.

 

https://bnstree.com/BM?build=45000021004311532110211383111131105231262110811205311042214232603210032213211

 

Typically my opener is going to be fly in and use RB aoe stun if they dont have their resist bubble up. If it is up I just fly to the other side of the map until it wears off.

 

So RB flight stun -> Q or SS-> 3 -> V->C-> RB -> LB -> F -> Tab -> is the opener I use on the summnoner if the cat is still by him this will drop pet will below 50% from the aoe damage and if pet is close at the beginning both will get knocked up from your 3. At this point you can choose to LB or you can 2->F-Lb-Lb the summoner or cat both should be well under 40% assuming the cat isn't already dead.

 

You can usually hardswap to the cat after this first opener as the summoner will run but be sure to keep an eye out for if the pet is crouching and glowing gren (90% dmg reduction) or summoner is trying to heal the pet. If either of these are happening stay on the summoner.

this seems similar to what sins do against summoners. i hear alot of sins crying that summoner is an impossible matchup for us, but it really just doesnt work if your doing the usual web combos/stun lock/limited stealth builds most seem to move too for PvP. I use something closer to my PvE build vs summoners and they're one of my easier matchups

[Waynedetta]

15 hours ago, Daymon said:

Common strategy is to put the cat in coma with the unconcious skill. The hardest part of being BM against summoner is that you can't put the cat in coma like other classes. BM require a target to block, and the cat barely do that. 

The most notable thing I have seen on most fights against summoner as BM is that they usually pull the summoner along with the cat in order to stun both and do dmg on both, sometimes a slight stun on the cat and full dps on summoner. One thing they have in common, all use the pull skill from blade throw in order to get that little shit from hitting you with sun flower afar.

 

Every class has struggle to coma the cat, because you basically have to CC summoner then use 2 CCs on cat. The throw unconciouss also only works if summoner is cc'd otherwise he will just spam E which works midair...

Best thing against summoner is to put a lot of pressure on him and the cat, if you ignore the cat he can heal a lot and it will cc you and break your combos.

[Kutsuu]

20 minutes ago, Waynedetta said:

 

Every class has struggle to coma the cat, because you basically have to CC summoner then use 2 CCs on cat. The throw unconciouss also only works if summoner is cc'd otherwise he will just spam E which works midair...

Best thing against summoner is to put a lot of pressure on him and the cat, if you ignore the cat he can heal a lot and it will cc you and break your combos.

 

I don't think you understood what he meant. BM's sleep has a very specific pre-requisite - you have to stun the opponent with boot (meaning they were blocking/defending), then hit them with LMB. The cat does not block. Do you see what the difference is? 

[Twitchybird]

On 8.2.2016 at 0:59 AM, amorent said:

Just reroll a scummoner for easy plat. I was watching earlier a guy on twitch he got plat in one session at level 33 after playing it for a less than a day ( 2 losses due to dc, and another loss to a scummoner) It was disgusting to watch. He was stuck at gold for a while as fm before that. Scummoners are a joke of a class so don't feel bad

MY sig.

[nahoot]

On 2/8/2016 at 1:44 AM, Dalapie said:

there is no tactic to this.. there is no way, you win if your lucky, but 90% of the time you just lose and must face the fact, no matter how well you play

 

reasons..

 

the cat disrupt your targeting making you focus him every time

 

the summoner can EASILY get out of your lightning trap and make the pet take no damage in the duration

 

when the pet is knocking you down you get 100-0 in sun beams for the duration... 

 

i know the game isnt balanced around 45 pvp but why, why is the diffrence SO  huge that i cannot do anything but quit the match before it even starts .... i simply cannot get rating this way.

Yes, no chance 10 fights vs scummoners all loss, the only class that its OP and was buffed