Ncsoft or who ever the devs are should watch these

[GnatB]

2 hours ago, Sycogenesis said:

obviously not if you have watched any of those videos BNs is going the oppsoite way

 

I'm not sure I agree.  The majority of stuff in the store is the (according to the video) "good" kind of monetization.  Cool stuff you'd like to have.  (a.k.a. outfits/costumes)

 

Now sure, I'd be inclined to argue they priced those things a smidge too high, but the design is right.

 

(Note:  I'll admit, they also do have a share of the silly (IMO) pay to avoid playing stuff (exp boosters, etc.)  But as far as I can see there is no "paywall" type monetization.)

[Kaizokuoni]

Second episode of the first linked video, starting at 3:20, I would say is an accurate description of this thread. Saying the end is nigh and the sky is falling over a two dollar gashapon ball is quite a bit premature . 

[Daemoroth]

1 hour ago, Kaizokuoni said:

Second episode of the first linked video, starting at 3:20, I would say is an accurate description of this thread. Saying the end is nigh and the sky is falling over a two dollar gashapon ball is quite a bit premature . 

 

I think you're confusing legitimate complaints with "end is nigh" hyperbolic BS. If we all kept quiet even though we thought RNG boxes were a terrible idea, NCSoft might think that it's a good idea to put more future costumes into them.

[Troska]

They have some really good videos.

[Zerecas]

3 hours ago, CaptainToby said:

The prices in the cash shop are unacceptable as well... I know many people, especially from my clan, who would buy costumes for 5-10 Dollars. One of our mates is just constantly farming all in-game costumes and collecting them and I know for a fact that he would buy some from the cash shop for a reasonable prize.

 

And the RNG boxes... Oh boy, how can a game developer that has brought out a multitude of F2P games not know how stupid this idea is. Atm. I am honestly not playing anymore since the day after the boxes were released, simply because of what damage they did to the market. I made money off the market, some hundred golds over the past weeks, but since the box is out, the market is completely flooded with items. Since I traded all my money into Soulstones because they are a safe currency (limited how many you can get each day meaning that they are resilient to bots and all that) I lost a lot of money on the first day the box came out. I would've most likely sold them before Feb10 because with bsh you can get an unlimited amount of Soulstones each day but with the prizes slowly rising after release I would've made a lot of money off the market and would've gotten into Feb10 with over 1k gold in hand but now... thx NC and go f* yourself.

 

You could think after a multitude of games NC should know how to implement F2P correctly... but I lost all hope now that they really brought in the boxes even though they promised there won't be any RNG boxes somewhere during beta.

Who would buy the costume for 5-10 dollar? The Asian market, even $40 is not a deal.

And are you trying to say that you are monopolizing the market until recently?

___________

And how is that RNG box P2W? This community has a strong liking to the term P2W

[CaptainToby]

3 hours ago, Redmonster said:

^ You're mad because you stopped making exploitative amounts of cash off of items that were super expensive because they were rare. Whereas lots of other people say it was NEEDED to lower the crazy high prices in the economy for things that are necessary for every single player. A price gouging market is NOT a healthy one, even if you were on the end that was benefiting from it. Many people were complaining that they didn't make enough money even at end game to keep up with the high costs of rare mats. Dropping the prices of necessary items is more healthy for the game, whether or not it was healthy for YOUR pocket specifically.

 

Putting materials that the economy badly needed to be put into the game in RNG boxes is hardly a crime. 

 

And honestly if you'd pay $10 so happily but throw a fit over $15 I'm just not sure what to say. Since there are no P2W aspects of the cash shop and most things are one time purchase since the cosmetics are permanent, I don't think another $5 to generate some income is really worth picketing over. There are plenty of people who buy them, so.

I didn't exploit anything. Otherwise you might say that people buying/selling in the stock market exploit the economy but they don't. They actually help the economy.

I'd love to meet people that complain about not making enough money end-game. With daily quests alone you can make 9g + 7g from selling the Stoulstones you got (at the old prices at least) so people that were furious about how little money they made before the market got flooded should be even MORE furious now because it is just 9g + 4g now.

And rare mats are supposed to be RARE, that's in the name, right? You're not supposed to be able to upgrade your weapon right away and after - as I said, I have about 1k in Soulstones most of it made through the market/crafting (which was essentially also market, invest into the Merry Potter asap, sell the items - profit) I didn't use most of the money I made and still got my weapons upgraded to at least True Profane now with spending some money to the guild too (Simply because I don't care about PvE that much). That was all through dungeons and daily quests excluding the Soulstones from PvP quests.

 

Also the economy didn't 'badly' need Soulstones. Soulstone prices were acceptable for what you could do with them and putting them in RNG boxes bought from the Cash Shop was probably the WORST idea to bring more of them into the game (which wasn't necessary in the first place imo.) because now the people dumping money into the game will get even richer, while the people playing Free 2 Play or Premium Only or smth. like that will get less money. Also, RNG is a crappy mechanic for something you pay for.

 

Also I said 5-10 dollars, which is ~7.5 dollars and that is a big change from 15 dollars. In League of Legends you pay about 7$ for a skin (which usually also alters animations and such), in Dota 2 you pay 3-10$ for a decent set (highly depending on the marketplace prices and such, but they also alter animations, icons, stuff) or about 2-3$ for a random set from a chest, just as two examples. 

[CaptainToby]

17 minutes ago, Zerecas said:

Who would buy the costume for 5-10 dollar? The Asian market, even $40 is not a deal.

And are you trying to say that you are monopolizing the market until recently?

___________

And how is that RNG box P2W? This community has a strong liking to the term P2W

I would buy one costume (White Dragon) for <8$. At least for now because most of the costumes are just meh.

Where did i mention P2W? And after all, you are paying... to get an advantage... to win more, right? Paying to get tradable items -> buying upgrade items for weapons and such -> dealing more damage than/win against the dude that has to farm his 16 gold via daily quests. I hate that people say P2W is only when you can get EXCLUSIVE content that changes the game through the cash-shop only. No. Not even remotely. If you needed to farm 5 days for items for the next weapon after True Siren but could also - for money - instantly upgrade your weapon without farming, then that is P2W because for the time that non-paying players farm these items, YOU are stronger and the ONLY way to compete with you is by paying money. This is one of the reasons why allowing for unregulated buying of sellable items with RL money is problematic, especially when you do it with items that are otherwise limited for a good reason.

I wasn't monopolizing, I bet you don't even know what that term means. I was simply making money off the market by trading.

[wootwoots]

that guy is good with thoses video, saw one from him about powercreep, always well thought.

 

But yeah, actualy, BnS feel like money extort, so simple, i dont give them money.

[Rottmer]

30 minutes ago, CaptainToby said:

I didn't exploit anything. Otherwise you might say that people buying/selling in the stock market exploit the economy but they don't. They actually help the economy.

I'd love to meet people that complain about not making enough money end-game. With daily quests alone you can make 9g + 7g from selling the Stoulstones you got (at the old prices at least) so people that were furious about how little money they made before the market got flooded should be even MORE furious now because it is just 9g + 4g now.

And rare mats are supposed to be RARE, that's in the name, right? You're not supposed to be able to upgrade your weapon right away and after - as I said, I have about 1k in Soulstones most of it made through the market/crafting (which was essentially also market, invest into the Merry Potter asap, sell the items - profit) I didn't use most of the money I made and still got my weapons upgraded to at least True Profane now with spending some money to the guild too (Simply because I don't care about PvE that much). That was all through dungeons and daily quests excluding the Soulstones from PvP quests.

 

Also the economy didn't 'badly' need Soulstones. Soulstone prices were acceptable for what you could do with them and putting them in RNG boxes bought from the Cash Shop was probably the WORST idea to bring more of them into the game (which wasn't necessary in the first place imo.) because now the people dumping money into the game will get even richer, while the people playing Free 2 Play or Premium Only or smth. like that will get less money. Also, RNG is a crappy mechanic for something you pay for.

 

Also I said 5-10 dollars, which is ~7.5 dollars and that is a big change from 15 dollars. In League of Legends you pay about 7$ for a skin (which usually also alters animations and such), in Dota 2 you pay 3-10$ for a decent set (highly depending on the marketplace prices and such, but they also alter animations, icons, stuff) or about 2-3$ for a random set from a chest, just as two examples. 

Soulstones on NA are going at 20s a piece. You get 15~ from faction dailies, +2 if you do Tomb of the Exiles daily. You also can get them from Blackwrym and the Terrors, however, that isn't always easy to do for a lot of people (especially in lopsided faction servers). Stuff like that can take a good chunk out of your day, and can be soul sucking. You only get 9g if you are premium and cap out on your daily quest limit; 8g60s is the most anyone is making without premium and capping out on daily quests. 

 

Soulstones are expensive and necessary. This game is based off of a Korean mindset, and not every American and even European is willing to spend their entire day farming for these soulstones. They are needed to craft bopae primers, moonwater stones, and to upgrade your weapon/accessories past True Profane/Infernal. I am not gonna say that the market was badly hurting for these stones either, but the fact is that unless you played everyday and were willing to put up with the chaos that follows fighting Terrors and Blackwrym (and sometimes not even getting a reward at all, despite contributing a ton), you weren't going to get your hands on many soulstones per day. 15 a day is not that bad, all things considered, but with how the upgrade costs are, its still very ridiculous. 

[CaptainToby]

8 minutes ago, Rottmer said:

Soulstones on NA are going at 20s a piece. You get 15~ from faction dailies, +2 if you do Tomb of the Exiles daily. You also can get them from Blackwrym and the Terrors, however, that isn't always easy to do for a lot of people (especially in lopsided faction servers). Stuff like that can take a good chunk out of your day, and can be soul sucking. You only get 9g if you are premium and cap out on your daily quest limit; 8g60s is the most anyone is making without premium and capping out on daily quests. 

 

Soulstones are expensive and necessary. This game is based off of a Korean mindset, and not every American and even European is willing to spend their entire day farming for these soulstones. They are needed to craft bopae primers, moonwater stones, and to upgrade your weapon/accessories past True Profane/Infernal. I am not gonna say that the market was badly hurting for these stones either, but the fact is that unless you played everyday and were willing to put up with the chaos that follows fighting Terrors and Blackwrym (and sometimes not even getting a reward at all, despite contributing a ton), you weren't going to get your hands on many soulstones. 

They used to be 35s, 38-40s at night/morning. You get about 20 soulstones on average (take pouches instead of 2 or the 4 if available). You get 8g60 + 40s from 8 moonwater tears winning from the blue dungeons (they were at 30-40s, so 60-80 for two, people usually bid up to 49s, so 10-30s winning each run +/- market fee). That makes about 16g each day through dailies and I am expecting to cap out cause this is a Korean grinder MMO yadda, yadda.

 

But then why did they even increase some of the prizes/decrease droprates and such with their western port?! And why not just give more as a reward from the dailies or implement more dailies instead of this milky way with the chest?

You need 10 or 20 (I don't remember honestly) for each accessory which is what you get every day, you need none to get to True Profane and not a staggering amount (I really don't remember how much but it wasn't a ridiculous amount) afterwards and bopae primers are luxury after all, they are useless until the good soulshields get implemented anyways. I never found the Soulstone droprate to be too low, it is an MMO after all, you are expected to put in time and effort day after day to get what you want. Using your money each day you can buy a moonwater transformation stone each day and there was a lot of profit in making them as well (about 40g profit in the first weeks for each set of 10).

[GnatB]

11 hours ago, wootwoots said:

But yeah, actualy, BnS feel like money extort, so simple, i dont give them money.

 

I guess I just don't see that.  How does it feel like BnS is extorting money?

[Eternalx]

Wow very informative and cool video. The LoL example is pretty spot on. I spent a shit ton on that game but never once regretted it .. unlike some OTHER game *cough* Paying for a costume that cannot be transferred *LOL* even Aeria, the king of greed allow you to transfer across all chars.. 

 

While I'm at it, I REFUSE to BUY an item that will let me transfer my costumes. That is just absurd.