Why there will be no population growth for bns post UE4

[Miggy Miggs]

wanted to discuss the topic for a while, so i here go:

 

If you're a veteran playing for 5 years you will notice a few things have changed since back then and now.The game had alot of issues performance wise mostly, why alot of people didnt get into the game...but nevertheless we had a big playerbase as time goes by it went down which is pretty normal for any game.

 

All hope was pinned on UE4 and it came, did it deliver? tbh it was better than expected, it has  minor hiccups and alot of bugs but graphic wise its alot better.

 

What i for one didn't expect is bns not promoting it and build on the hype instead it seems they have given up? i did see one and 2 youtubers talk on it, not sure if they were sponsored but yea.

 

The population since UE4 has taken another dip, people will say new game came out blah blah blah....

 

but heres the real problem with with the game.

 

 

RETURNING PLAYERS

 

{DEAD PVP}

1. returning players left a game active in the pvp scene, first thing they gonna do is try 1v1 or 3v3..... the arena chat dead, and queues are dead also....first thing he or she will say is dam the game is dead or pvp is dead.

 

{NO SOCIALIZING}

2. dungeons are rushed these days, there's literally no fun in it..... running to boss room for 6 mins and kill boss in 30sec to 1 min, then everyone leaves the party.The most you will get out of a person is TYFP. I see people asking for friends to play with in fraction sadly nobody as the time, with the lack of gold people busy farming 10 alts to do the bare minimum of flushing that down the toilet of rng.

 

Dead F8

he or she goes to dungeon and lfp  no queue the f8 chat there is dead too.... not use to this .... he or she assume the game dead and tires one more thing.

 

 

Open world chill spot and pvp

 

Non existent.jadestone was one of those spot where something was always going on or foshi pyres......these spots are dead.

 

 

Not seeing or interacting with people while leveling up or doing story.

 

 

TO SUM UP.........

 

Returning players coming back to the game will come into a game where you don't interact with people, stuck a on one man threadmill just spamming daily weekly raid ..try to upgrade some random rng item then log off. ... theres nothing outside of this bracket to do.

 

 

 

Veterans

 

The soul of this game is literally gone.With ue4 came a slap to the face......

 

The death of pvp.......

 

The start of the rng era.......... (which isn't bad but the cost is so crazy when there's no item ingame to resell to make an income to cover for this )

The quantity of mats we get is so high that the  resell value for them is so low.

 

 

 

THE DIRECTION THAT BNS IS GOING INTO THE OTHER HALF OF 2022

 

base on what am seeing, seeing that the playerbase  is crippled by the low gold income, this was quickly utilize as a way to make money.

 

literally no way you can upgrade those mystic accs without a solid income of gold.......F9 and now battle pass ( the new band aid fix i mean salt rubbed in the wound fix)
 

theres no intention of fixing this problem until the milking is done. thats why am angry......

 

The problem is they gave away too much, and wonder why stuff not selling, lets take a look at f110

 

looks the same everyday with the mats alone rotating ...or a ones in a whale whale shop.

the todays special should be renamed to todays usuals....

 

items in the cash shop outdated, and needs restocking , premium lost it spark, with low hm coin income means no use for premium......oh you remember the pvpers from bg yea the main buyers of that a rip there.

 

i really don't mind the game encouraging people to spend, if its gonna keep it alive.

 

but when the current state of the game is like this and encouraging individuals to spend like 3 times as more as you would in the past.... for items that will be irrelevant after 3 months .

 

lets take a look at class change voucher.....

 

 

if am a pvper and i hated the class i had before due to it being weak.....now i switch to a decent class, i can't enjoy it to the full extent, because i will never experience this class in pvp.

 

buying  5- 10 k of gold to upgrade like 1 time from stage 4 mystic to stage 5..... this is not value for money, it literally throwing  money away

 

last point, seems like theres only one person working for the game rn and thats @Green Storm  its been crickets...

 

right now am just waiting for the message of the game closing down cause.....

 

we gone to copy,paste watered down patches.......without a lil finger of effort to make things a lil better, no out of our way services.

 

 

I believe that the team has given up and putting on a big smile when things look grim.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[FriendlyFox]

I kinda agree on most of your points actually.

It was pretty obvious that removed rewards would drive of a few players from PvP (I even welcomed it since PvP was infested by cheaters) but the nail in the coffin was that PvP was literally broken for 1.5 months and got silently fixed without any kind of announcement (aka the season reset). As a result when people tried to q up they wouldn't find a game and thus wouldn't q up again since it felt like a waste of time.

There was a time period in EU when people could get enough people to q for actual bg games with the behemoth buff (there were daily 4-5 actual bg games in EU), but this also died out since the damage was already done by breaking bgs during the release of a new game where A LOT of the pvp playerbase switched to.

The demonsbane content has too many stages and stages differ too much for the LFP feature to be useful. Dungeons also went from 15-20 minute long dungeons to now 3-4 minute dungeons, reducing player interaction. I can't see a new player being bound to any kind of social interaction.

And what's the worst for me personally is the feeling of NCWest trying to kill of their playerbase by nerfing every patch we get from KR. Oh? KR is getting Hongmoon Master Scrolls and Pet Collections from Celestial Basin? Can't have that here in EU/NA (fun fact: Celestial Basin was dead 1 day after the rework). Or KR is only needing 20 Synthesis Stones for one upgrade try from 19 to 20? Nope we need 100 of them. You can drop hexa gems from Poharan in KR? Nope Penta max here (btw to max your gems (if you didn't have hepta fuses already) you'd need average 14.500 runs, at a run time of 6 minutes each you'd "only" need 1450 hours of farming Poharan, 2 months full on farming Poharan, in KR it's 870 hours). Even Soulboost is getting nerfed rewards compared to KR. We have no gold income (and their "fix" was putting gold in the battle pass, but only the paid version or the top 3 players of each class). We have literally no content for this whole month inciting people to bot due to the inhuman amount of time you'd need to farm manually or without cheats. 
Remember when we got changes in EU/NA to avoid the RNG factor? Now we have RNG upgrades which require even more mats than KR while we don't even have a gold sources (which KR has). 
I'm so tilted about those decisions. The game would literally be better if we would get the patches from KR 1:1, don't ***** nerf the rewards or increase the requirements for EU/NA. You'd literally save development costs (since it's known that NCSoft doesn't even care about bugs coming to EU/NA 1:1) by bringing everything 1:1.

Edited April 15, 2022 by FriendlyFox

[Walex]

So true...

[Miggy Miggs]

4 hours ago, FriendlyFox said:

I kinda agree on most of your points actually.

It was pretty obvious that removed rewards would drive of a few players from PvP (I even welcomed it since PvP was infested by cheaters) but the nail in the coffin was that PvP was literally broken for 1.5 months and got silently fixed without any kind of announcement (aka the season reset). As a result when people tried to q up they wouldn't find a game and thus wouldn't q up again since it felt like a waste of time.

There was a time period in EU when people could get enough people to q for actual bg games with the behemoth buff (there were daily 4-5 actual bg games in EU), but this also died out since the damage was already done by breaking bgs during the release of a new game where A LOT of the pvp playerbase switched to.

The demonsbane content has too many stages and stages differ too much for the LFP feature to be useful. Dungeons also went from 15-20 minute long dungeons to now 3-4 minute dungeons, reducing player interaction. I can't see a new player being bound to any kind of social interaction.

And what's the worst for me personally is the feeling of NCWest trying to kill of their playerbase by nerfing every patch we get from KR. Oh? KR is getting Hongmoon Master Scrolls and Pet Collections from Celestial Basin? Can't have that here in EU/NA (fun fact: Celestial Basin was dead 1 day after the rework). Or KR is only needing 20 Synthesis Stones for one upgrade try from 19 to 20? Nope we need 100 of them. You can drop hexa gems from Poharan in KR? Nope Penta max here (btw to max your gems (if you didn't have hepta fuses already) you'd need average 14.500 runs, at a run time of 6 minutes each you'd "only" need 1450 hours of farming Poharan, 2 months full on farming Poharan, in KR it's 870 hours). Even Soulboost is getting nerfed rewards compared to KR. We have no gold income (and their "fix" was putting gold in the battle pass, but only the paid version or the top 3 players of each class). We have literally no content for this whole month inciting people to bot due to the inhuman amount of time you'd need to farm manually or without cheats. 
Remember when we got changes in EU/NA to avoid the RNG factor? Now we have RNG upgrades which require even more mats than KR while we don't even have a gold sources (which KR has). 
I'm so tilted about those decisions. The game would literally be better if we would get the patches from KR 1:1, don't ***** nerf the rewards or increase the requirements for EU/NA. You'd literally save development costs (since it's known that NCSoft doesn't even care about bugs coming to EU/NA 1:1) by bringing everything 1:1.

 

1. personally i believe its time we only have stage 11 21 31 41 up....with the hm coin nerf nobody cares about ranking up and most people got their accs.

 

2. with the implementation of soul boost, the game can more than host a pvp event that gives token to buy sacred vials, so new comers can have some understanding of pvp, they never try to learn it,because its not something rewarding.....they qued, got no matches and never went back there.

 

3.The biggest selling point of bns is open world pvp, if they can bring this back in misty wood at least, i know returnees will be here for sure....which in turns bring in more money.

 

4. bns goal now is trying to get 1 person to pay for 5, when all they need to do is please the return players, they the ones likely to come back and stay....and they will spend.

 

5.before bns try making money of selling gold, they better off selling gear at this point........give us free gold and sell the gear, could careless....nothing they can sell that will phase me now as they already expose them self as pay for everything.

 

sell some 50 run tickets, lets see some true weapon, some true ring earring  for a ridiculous amount of nc coin......its good business.

but stop selling gold and make the game enjoyable.

 

 

[Amane]

This will get a lot worse with the upcoming new Demonsbane accs and weapon. 

Things need to be fixed NOW or it's over. 

 

DRASTIC changes to gold income are needed ASAP or people will just quit out of frustration. 

The new progression tier is without a single doubt the worst thing that ever happened and WILL happen to our version of Blade & Soul. This is why these changes are needed NOW... at best, next week's maintenance. 

Edited April 15, 2022 by Amane

[Daliah]

I wonder what's so fun in clinging to things that you already see as dead or near dead?
Sure suggestions are welcome and can make things better. But if you already know they don't listen or care enough to
apply these suggestion that you guys believe will bring back this so called "dead game" and let it see "glory".
I just wonder if it's really worth to keep trying? For me this "dead game" is the same as it was since the start.
A game that i can play and leave whenever. And even if these "Bring back life into it" suggestions get applied there's no
difference for me. I mean in the end it's just a game not something "we" are stuck with doing till the end.
Looking at all the topics and "massive" negativity attached almost to all of them. I guess you can't let go of it?
As if you feel somehow forced to keep playing till the games end? Same with the "daily chores" in game. If you don't want to
do them then don't even if you progress slower. This is the part i am most amazed of.

And some extra info i barely finish dc and weekly stuff on 1 char during the times i play and now and then "mess" around with alts.
And that doesn't stop me from having fun whenever i come here and play. ^^
And i do wonder what's the thing at this "top" that makes so many feel forced to play 10+ alts for "daily chore rewards" just
to get closer to "top".

[DenialOfTruth]

While I agree with most of the points made, I must point out that patches kind of have to be copypaste from KR. NCWest does no modification to the patches and has no capability to do so. For whatever reason KR has deemed NA and EU must be crippled in comparison in gold income and availability of certain upgrades like Heart. That change should have never happened and the fact it did means no player will ever upgrade their Hearts again past a point.

 

In addition, Green Storm isn't the only staff member, they're just the only public facing staff member. I don't think they do any of the tech stuff, they just attempt to communicate with us about issues when possible. This isn't defense of their set up...I for one would actually welcome being more transparent and engaging with the community, but as is, Green Storm is not responsible for development work.

Edited April 15, 2022 by DenialOfTruth

[shpan]

24 minutes ago, Daliah said:

I wonder what's so fun in clinging to things that you already see as dead or near dead?
Sure suggestions are welcome and can make things better. But if you already know they don't listen or care enough to
apply these suggestion that you guys believe will bring back this so called "dead game" and let it see "glory".
I just wonder if it's really worth to keep trying? For me this "dead game" is the same as it was since the start.
A game that i can play and leave whenever. And even if these "Bring back life into it" suggestions get applied there's no
difference for me. I mean in the end it's just a game not something "we" are stuck with doing till the end.
Looking at all the topics and "massive" negativity attached almost to all of them. I guess you can't let go of it?

You say it's the same for you now as it was from the start, but for a lot of players it's fundamentally different now than it was at the start.  When I started playing I could get PvP matches in arena and battlegrounds easily every day and that was the reason why I logged on.  I enjoyed it a lot and still enjoy the PvP of this game but I can't ever find matches.

And well, why shouldn't people try to communicate and fix a game that they're passionate about?  I really can't understand your tone.  You seem surprised that people who have been passionate and are still passionate about this game are trying to fight for positive changes through the forums?  There's a lot of negativity now because there are a lot of issues and people care.

[Amane]

1 hour ago, DenialOfTruth said:

While I agree with most of the points made, I must point out that patches kind of have to be copypaste from KR. NCWest does no modification to the patches and has no capability to do so. For whatever reason KR has deemed NA and EU must be crippled in comparison in gold income and availability of certain upgrades like Heart. That change should have never happened and the fact it did means no player will ever upgrade their Hearts again past a point.

 

In addition, Green Storm isn't the only staff member, they're just the only public facing staff member. I don't think they do any of the tech stuff, they just attempt to communicate with us about issues when possible. This isn't defense of their set up...I for one would actually welcome being more transparent and engaging with the community, but as is, Green Storm is not responsible for development work.

 

It is what will happen with future patches going forward... IT IS copy & paste from the KR version, just they do change things and make them even more scuffed for our version... like for example put in drop rate nerfs for no valid reason.

[DenialOfTruth]

1 minute ago, Amane said:

 

It is what will happen with future patches going forward... IT IS copy & paste from the KR version, just they do change things and make them even more scuffed for our version... like for example put in drop rate nerfs for no valid reason.

There is no evidence of drop rate nerfs and never has been any presented. You'd need thousands of runs to get a reliable idea of the drop rate, and no one has posted data of before and after supposed 'nerfs'. Also my comment didn't...dispute the fact they're copypasted patches at all in any capacity? That's already a known point. What are you expecting, for completely and utterly different content compared to what KR gets?

[Daliah]

Well i never said it's a bad thing. Like i do agree it could be better and people do care about things others may not.
But let's face it which side cares? Players care that much can be seen. But looking at the other side the people that can
decide what happens for this game. Can you tell me that they care based on their actions taken so far?
You said it yourself the game was fun at start and still is to some extent. But did the suggestions start appearing only recently?
There were players that wanted the game to be "better" even then but look were that leads.
Anyway it's true i'm not the least bit positive.

Hmm the part about consequences. True i guess i don't understand sorry about that.
Sadly knowing them or not won't help much anyway. I guess you think these consequences don't simply come for you as they please on their own.

[DenialOfTruth]

18 minutes ago, Daliah said:

Well i never said it's a bad thing. Like i do agree it could be better and people do care about things others may not.
But let's face it which side cares? Players care that much can be seen. But looking at the other side the people that can
decide what happens for this game. Can you tell me that they care based on their actions taken so far?
You said it yourself the game was fun at start and still is to some extent. But did the suggestions start appearing only recently?
There were players that wanted the game to be "better" even then but look were that leads.
Anyway it's true i'm not the least bit positive.

Hmm the part about consequences. True i guess i don't understand sorry about that.
Sadly knowing them or not won't help much anyway. I guess you think these consequences don't simply come for you as they please on their own.

I think most people here do enjoy the game in some capacity, or they wouldn't be here. But it is true the game has long been neglected and has received more bad updates lately then good. The Heart change still stands out as the worst update they have ever done to the game and one they should have reversed ASAP, but they have yet to do so and likely won't as the game is being made more KR like. In some aspects this is good, in others bad. In theory, the more KR like it becomes, the easier patches should come to us because they need to do less little tweaks, but at the same time we have crippled gold gains and KR seems to often forget that we have things X way when they have it Y way, and that causes the majority of bugs we see.

[Daliah]

And yeah here is a suggestion that i think would improve the game.

Race evolution system - Gain exp from various activites and so on and after reaching certain lvls obtain
"race specific extra effects/stats/perks for certain activities/race evolution change(unlock)". Basic race evo change would be available
1x from reaching a certain lvl rest of the race evo change would be obtained from collecting currency from in game activities
and purchased from a merchant that offers some exclusive and old(Event/Shop race evo change) on rotation.
Well idk how realistic it is for a game like bns to implement something like this but would be quite interesting and fun.
And the race evo change would be something basic a demonic lyn a vampire gon a spirit yun an element form jin.
Well those are just examples. And depending on what race evo change is being used the "extra effects/stats/perks for certain
activities" would be adjusted.

Well this is just an example. Though would be nice 😛 While i agree that balance of progression speed should be adjusted
to be more achieveable and actually have more ways to do it with less rng. And gold income improved as well.
And also updating the already existing shops that sell or more like sold useful items to help with gearing.
(Dragon express and some npc shops that used to be nice but due to lack of updating to keep up with current gear/items
they lose the purpose they were added for to begin with)
But looking at how many years bns already has and the suggestions "to fix/adjust/same as kr" some of the things i mentioned above
have been posted quite a lot over those years. Sure some parts of those suggestions get some attention now and then.
But overall there's no progress made ^^ And so all i wanted to find out was if it's fun/worth(idk) to keep the suggestions posted.

Well for me these things don't matter that much since i just come to play for a while and then leave for a while(and repeat).

And about 2 (No socialising)
Well sure dungeons are more fast paced and not 30-60min long or even more but that alone isn't enough to make the difference.
Like if you want you can socialise but not sure why must it be inside a dungeon. And having disappointing experience when 
trying to socialise is more common now i guess. Though that's fine all you need to do is try again till it works.
And i barely chat in dungeons faction/area chat. And have no issue with it at all. And yeah idk the exact reason for lack of
interest compared to "how it was a long time ago". But it's clear there are ppl that are bothered by this even though
they say they want to socialise. Like if you want to socialise all you gotta do is do it and continue.

[FriendlyFox]

15 hours ago, DenialOfTruth said:

There is no evidence of drop rate nerfs and never has been any presented. You'd need thousands of runs to get a reliable idea of the drop rate, and no one has posted data of before and after supposed 'nerfs'. Also my comment didn't...dispute the fact they're copypasted patches at all in any capacity? That's already a known point. What are you expecting, for completely and utterly different content compared to what KR gets?

There is no evidence of drop rate nerfs, but the loot table itself is visible to everyone and in nearly patch nerfed compared to KR.
Celestial Basin f.e. KR gets Hongmoon Master Scrolls and Pet Collections, EU/NA had them removed
Chaos Supply Chain f.e. KR is getting Square+Penta+Hexa Gems (~30% each), EU/NA has Square+Penta only (~50% each). Same applies to Pet Gems, KR has Octa+Triangular+Square Pet Gems, EU/NA has only Octa+Triangular
Same with Transmutes, EU/NA requires the additional item "Challenger Token", in KR you require a few tradable materials (Soulstones, etc but not many) to fuse them.
Same with Unity Stones, KR has no awakened legendary stage, we have one full additional stage to make it more grindy.
EU/NA also requires 5x more Synthesis stones compared to KR, while not having any gold sources (like the daily changes or Kaebi village in KR).
Soul Boost also has nerfed rewards compared to KR.

We didn't get any positive changes, only changes to make it more grindy, more p2w, so of course I'm kinda tilted, especially with the patch we got this month, since they legit removed ALL the useful content you could get from there. There is literally nothing left to farm in Celestial Basin (and even more skins got removed and are now forever unavailable in the game).

Don't take me wrong, I'm not criticizing Green Storm, I'm actually really glad with how he interacts with the community, he just had the bad luck to get thrown into this dumpster fire. I'm purely criticizing the people making the decisions to just nerf every single patch EU/NA is getting. It feels like in every patch they go over the loot table and just cut the best rewards you could get.
I would be so glad if we could just get everything KR gets 1:1, I don't even mind if they include every single bug KR got (I mean we are getting them currently already anyways).

[Daliah]

Well some adjustments for that race evo system.
Instead of race specific it would be evo type/grade specific(effects/stats/perks for certain activities)
Extra bonus % to those effects could be added during "Harmony"(added later on i guess)
Harmony would be a "bonus" effect when joining a party with others that have unlocked an evo change.
The bonus effect would depend on "Grade" + "Title"(If the evo has one).
Title i guess it could be the "p2w" part here though instead of making it "p2w only" there would be 2nd option to obtain/upgrade title.
Not much to add about p2w part except for not being able to "gift/trade". 
2nd option would be obtained from "various ingame activities" the upgrade mat would be tradeable
and not rare but to obtain/upgrade the title would require "Specific amount (idk much about balance)" ah and chance has to be 100%.
(Title's bonus effect doesn't need to be "party" only bonus but yeah it's just an example and won't add more since i'm not
good with "balance".)

Well the last thing would be a change for Mobs/Bosses having "type and grade" and the "effects" from evo would be more or less
effective based on those 2 (Type being main increase/decrease of effects effectiveness) (If the grade is lower than mob/boss
has effect loses %  and can be completely resisted if the grade is too low if it's higher than mob/boss gain bonus % for effect)

Well there is something like this already in a different game (aion) and i do like it but it hasn't been "improved further"
having stats and a different form is all there is for now. (Also for those that dislike "form" being changed can just add
a show/hide option).

Anyway instead of focusing on the small/big issues that aren't fixed fast enough or never get a proper fix.
Just enjoy it for what it is. If that's not possible can always look for something else there are quite a lot of options
out there. ^^