Sin vs FM

[Skrux]

Can any fellow Assassin help me out? I'm getting eatin alive by FMs now by huge CC combos. I'm having trouble sticking on them seeing as they have 2 stun escapes. I don't remember having this kind of trouble when I hit Plat in 1v1 Arena back in Season 1. Are FMs just that much of a counter to Assassins now, or am I missing something?

[Oupy]

fm, summoner , lock , bm , will eat u for breakfast , sin is pretty much trash tier now 

even top sin that was streaming yesterday Yekitsu or something his name he was top diamond before  barely scratched gold with 1637 Elo , im stuck on 1554 atm , i find it hard to move forward with sin  many classes just counter you 

[Skrux]

I'm just getting frozen in place for 5 seconds every 10 seconds it seems. I cant stick to them more than half the time without constantly getting frozen in place. and because of ping differences, moving while jumping = out of range FM after they're CC'd because I'm just frozen in place. :(

[Shiune]

21 minutes ago, Oupy said:

fm, summoner , lock , bm , will eat u for breakfast , sin is pretty much trash tier now 

even top sin that was streaming yesterday Yekitsu or something his name he was top diamond before  barely scratched gold with 1637 Elo , im stuck on 1554 atm , i find it hard to move forward with sin  many classes just counter you 

 

 

First of all Yuketsu was NEVER a top tier sin. NEVER. 

He is not to bad but nowhere near a top tier sin. 

 

2nd I eat summoners and BMs for breakfast as a sin. 

 

3rd FM matchup is hard but doable - if you know how to avoid chill stacks. 

Ice bomb build vs them is a very good wa to get your cooldowns back and get rid of chillstacks for example.

It's a very lame technique but against a class with 2 escapes and so much utility it's nearly a must to play for timeouts/cooldowns. 

 

[Skrux]

Sounds like another Summoner fight where you just run down the clock

[Shiune]

More or less it's unfortunately the case yes. 

 

Except that summoners are much easier to deal with since they don't have 2 escapes, Frost sheat, frost prison and chill stacks/frost orbs. 

 

Comboing a FM is even more difficult than comboing a summoner or destroyer in my opinion and those 2 are already cancer enough to combo. 

[Zerecas]

>Assassin trash tier

>Hold the top dominance on NA top 100.

[FarenheitZer0]

My most useful  advantage over FM is the smoke screen and the time bomb that daze. Atm I don't find FM match up that difficult.

7 hours ago, Shiune said:

2nd I eat summoners and BMs for breakfast as a sin.

Lately, BMs are doing this shit where the stay beside the wall the whole damn match and spam their block . It is annoying and really difficult for me to combo them there.

Do someone have any idea on how to counter this?

5 hours ago, Zerecas said:

>Assassin trash tier

>Hold the top dominance on NA top 100.

The player base in NA is mostly pve not pvp so that is likely to happen.

I am familia with streamers and I can't cite anyway pvper from NA.

[Zerecas]

10 minutes ago, FarenheitZer0 said:

The player base in NA is mostly pve not pvp so that is likely to happen.

I am familia with streamers and I can't cite anyway pvper from NA.

Even if I assume your statement is a fact, that's only mean Assassin did a hell lots of better job in PvE-ing someone else with ez life than FMs could, it only implies the discrepancy in class nature is utterly flawed.

[FarenheitZer0]

20 minutes ago, Zerecas said:

Even if I assume your statement is a fact, that's only mean Assassin did a hell lots of better job in PvE-ing someone else with ez life than FMs could, it only implies the discrepancy in class nature is utterly flawed.

Surely, my statement can't be considered as fact simply because I am on EU but I find it extremely difficult to imagine a top 100 dominated by sins.

The Fact that this dominance happens on NA donot demonstrated any flaw in the classes harmony.

 

Assasin is a class with toolkit of skills to take us out of any situation  and  if you had follow up the thread, you will have realised that this toolkit is now at flaw by the toolkit of EVERY OTHER  class in the game.

[Zerecas]

13 minutes ago, FarenheitZer0 said:

Surely, my statement can't be considered as fact simply because I am on EU but I find it extremely difficult to imagine a top 100 dominated by sins.

The Fact that this dominance happens on NA donot demonstrated any flaw in the classes harmony.

 

Assasin is a class with toolkit of skills to take us out of any situation  and  if you had follow up the thread, you will have realised that this toolkit is now at flaw by the toolkit of EVERY OTHER  class in the game.

That's why I conducted an NA graph of the last season of which you commented before.

In order for me to have a better grasp of the relation between classes and rank distribution, I made that chart for that sole purpose rather than the usual observation and simple calculation, although simple counting is already more than enough to indicate and confirm the rank distribution since top pvpers are top for a reason, and importantly, data DO NOT lies.

 

By having just NA data, it is enough to validate approximately 50% of the fact regarding the dominance, through the assumption of splitting western version of BnS into two, NA and EU. The remaining 50% is from the EU which I do not hold information at the moment.

So why am I not including TW, JP, CN, KR into consideration? Simple, because updates are different and what they have currently have got no impact to what we have currently.

 

I went to EU server not long ago, there're still plently of Assassins on the top 100, if we view top 100 in percentile format, with 9 existing classes altogether, spreading the rank distribution evenly would be 11.11% or 11 players for each class approximately but that's the ideal balance which probably won't exist in BnS, back to reality, Assassins took 20% in EU atm, that's nearly twice the amount.

 

But let's not be hassle this time, I have not view EU rank distribution before, but since the current season is still new, I will wait until the end of this season and make my one last conclusion basing on both EU and NA.

 

[FarenheitZer0]

1 hour ago, Zerecas said:

That's why I conducted an NA graph of the last season of which you commented before.

In order for me to have a better grasp of the relation between classes and rank distribution, I made that chart for that sole purpose rather than the usual observation and simple calculation, although simple counting is already more than enough to indicate and confirm the rank distribution since top pvpers are top for a reason, and importantly, data DO NOT lies.

 

By having just NA data, it is enough to validate approximately 50% of the fact regarding the dominance, through the assumption of splitting western version of BnS into two, NA and EU. The remaining 50% is from the EU which I do not hold information at the moment.

So why am I not including TW, JP, CN, KR into consideration? Simple, because updates are different and what they have currently have got no impact to what we have currently.

 

I went to EU server not long ago, there're still plently of Assassins on the top 100, if we view top 100 in percentile format, with 9 existing classes altogether, spreading the rank distribution evenly would be 11.11% or 11 players for each class approximately but that's the ideal balance which probably won't exist in BnS, back to reality, Assassins took 20% in EU atm, that's nearly twice the amount.

 

But let's not be hassle this time, I have not view EU rank distribution before, but since the current season is still new, I will wait until the end of this season and make my one last conclusion basing on both EU and NA.

 

Fair enough. Your graph is a comprehensive and accurate one and you are right, DATA do not lie.

Moreover, all top pvpers deserve their whether it is NA, EU or RU and this is undeniable.

 

Taking your hypothesis of the top 100 in percentile format with 9 existing classes in EU, the amount you stated on an even distribution of class in this said tier that is 11.11% for each class is bias and this for 2 reasons:

 

1- Class distribution: The BnS player base is heavily uneven with some classes outnumbering other classes by far. The sum class has the highest percentage and make up 18% (source : https://bnstree.com/character) of the total player base. But according to your graph which I consider to be comprehensive and highly accurate, they got the 4th position in the top 100 tier distribution.

 

2- Preferrence: In BnS, most players choose their class according to their taste and what they intent to do of it. Some classes are preffered over others for pve and others for pvp and your graph thus demonstrate these. For example, the Soul fighter which makes up only 3% of the total class distribution is again highly represented in pvp. And this your graph demonstrate this in the section Gold, Platinium and Diamond where the SF are more present than the FMs, WL and BM which have respectively 17% , 14% and 10% of the player base. (source: https://bnstree.com/character) Assasin having a higher percentage of the top tier pvp player base only means that this class is fit for purpose.

 

I think we got a misunderstanding here, if you intention was to say that the sin class is a preferred class for pvp like Blade dancer and  Destro then I agree with u simply because your graph demonstrate it. But if you meant that sin is over powered because it is highly represented in top tiers; I donot want to be a hassle but I strongly disagree.

[Zerecas]

5 minutes ago, FarenheitZer0 said:

-

My intention was to point out the one who says Assassin is a trash tier pvp class when the fact it is the opposite, isn't it?

Actually, I will have to wait til the end of the season for further discussion regarding this since at the moment, I do not hold the data.

 

But I just would like to say that, every classes have way more than a hundred of players, but there's some intervention that stopping some classes from proceeding further into the Top 100, whilst Top 100 isn't a large group nor a small group, but overall top 100 is something, every single of them are skilled, which we could talk about classes potential and limit. Besides, by basing on a collective group of 100, it will not, in no way be affected by the total population each class hold, in my opinion. Because if it does, Summoner, Warlock and FM could have been the one who dominates the top 100 rather than the melees because their population hold the highest in first three rank from the source you provided.

 

I don't based off my PoV about discrepancy in classes with the chart I made in regard of gold to diamond distribution because..

First, while they are ranked as gold which is still nice given that there are over thousands of each class without rank, BUT they aren't skilled enough to take into consideration.

Second, gold nowadays do not hold any high position in Overall Board, the top 1of each class however, is like implying this is the limit of this class can go at this point.

Third, high ping forbidding some players from proceeding further hence they are low ranked but that's not class issue, its technical performance issue.

 

*Possible reason why SF while have low population in general but have high presence in ranking board is because the class itself is fine as heck to begin with. But then again, I do not base my perspective on gold ranking pvpers.

 

 

 

 

[FakeName]

11 hours ago, Skrux said:

I'm just getting frozen in place for 5 seconds every 10 seconds it seems. I cant stick to them more than half the time without constantly getting frozen in place. and because of ping differences, moving while jumping = out of range FM after they're CC'd because I'm just frozen in place. :(

All you need to do to beat an ice build FM is never get hit ever.  

 

I am saying that mostly in jest, but the matchup gets a lot more unpleasant once they land that first skill that grants frost orbs.  Once they get frost orbs, you are punished with chill stacks whether they hit you or you hit them.

 

I wish I could give you better advice, but I am simply not very good at handling FMs myself, assuming the FM is played by someone with a pulse. 

[ZackGTie]

Omg i cant believe you guys actually have a hard time again us FM's. The worst match up i had, A sin used his  air combo thing, followed by web which a scaped but as soons as i did that he dazed me and did the skill that grabs me by the neck and do a spin. He did that like 3 times and then air combo flash bang, etc. It lasted like 20-25 secs. It was horrible. LOL

[Skrux]

6 minutes ago, ZackGTie said:

Omg i cant believe you guys actually have a hard time again us FM's. The worst match up i had, A sin used his  air combo thing, followed by web which a scaped but as soons as i did that he dazed me and did the skill that grabs me by the neck and do a spin. He did that like 3 times and then air combo flash bang, etc. It lasted like 20-25 secs. It was horrible. LOL

WOAH DUDE, SO CRAZY!!! Talk about legendary plays!

[N3ro]

Sin vs FM is a hard matchup, but it´s not a sure loose. You can play good enough and beat them up. Some even think sin might be favoured against fm assuming if you play perfectly. I don´t really think so though. But it´s a very hard matchup as when you do f*ck up once they are pretty much ensured to get 1 frost orbit from their 3 stun, or 3 from their f proc.

 

If you play with x stealth, you should also open with it. The main reason why you use x stealth is to easily 'win' the opener as that´s pretty much the only way you will ever kill a fm. If you loose the opener then you have to stall most of the time.

 

To prevent frost orbs fm is actually the only class where i tab escape their tab escape daze pretty regularly. If you f roll they can then catch you with their 3 stun and then you´ll have to tab escape anyway and they also will have a frost orb, witch is painful. Or they do their daze, witch they do most of the time.

 

When you knock them into the air you should check your chill stacks at the time you´re using your lmb air thingy, when you have 2 chills at the time you use moths, then moths will freeze you and you can web and use your 1 again. Otherwise you either will use shunpo to cleanse the chill stacks, or you have to airweb them pretty much.

 

When you´re comboing a fm with frost orbits you are better off not using your close shave as it sometimes dsyncs you and then you cannot continue your combo as you will be frozen in place without target. That´s why some sins don´t even spec close shave at all and just play with dark strike, but might not even use dark strike. You can put those points elsewhere, such as hm lmb. I´ve been using this build against fms lately.

https://bnstree.com/AS?build=500900000051003510102301931008311112200551128110075319921012321422100622016330182100931214110242201321

You can play with close shave it´s really good too, you just have to not use it when your opponent has frost orbits and i wanted to force myself to combo without it as it forces you into doing your combos a lot differently a lot of the time.

It´s not that big of a deal against fm though as you have it a lot easier to daze combo them in comparison to other classes as they do not have a ground counter witch makes tech chasing with your 3 a guaranteed daze combo and they don´t really have any counterplay to that other than their 1 getup skill witch you just hit into and they get knocked down again (for only 1 second though so you should then daze them).

Though you can´t use the 'normal' simple web combo anymore except you wait a bit before using your 4 stun after you web the fm as not using that 1 close shave will make it so your lmb stun will still be on cooldown for the second stun.

 

Also try to play around their escapes with q / e / ss / c. What´s really good is if you can manage to chase their ss with your c iframe. Most of the time i don´t use my e to play around tabs ever as you need it to cleanse chill at times. You don´t have to drop your combo with any of those. After ss you can either use your highwire and pull/daze him, or use your tab swap and 1 and stun him again, or use your f and continue this way.

 

Most fms use the tab ice that will freeze you when they exit it. You can get stealth from that with your woodblock. Some fms play around this and will then most likely exit the second your woodblock finishes. So you can q afterwards.

 

When fms ss they usually also tend to use a skill asap much like destros with their blue buff, but destros do that even more. So after you get hit by their ss you should instantly woodblock, or shunpo or ss. Yes theoretically woodblock can be countered by their blockbreak, but most fms tend to not do that after they ss. Maybe because most players probably don´t have fast enough reactions to press a button after their ss anyways? Well you can still woodblock and if nothing happens cancel it with ss or e.

 

Then just practice and maybe watch some streams can help as well. It´s not unwinable, but it´s one of the worst matchups for sins.