is there any way to beat a WL in pvp?

[Provois]

WL are most time invulnerable because of it low cd shield and the time they are not protected by his flying papers the hide them self in the daemon, block and/or put some golden chain on the ground. Together with this 24/7 protection they can burst you down in like 2 sec. with a shitload of op damage skills who give a *cricket* on block or other protection skills like hm block.

 

A usually game against a WL is like this.

-WL summon and throw his daemon

-use some kind of self protection so that all my attacks do nothing to him

-unleash the blue hell on me what kill me in like 5 sec no matter when i tab or use block/ hm block

-repeat for round 2 

 

I have no clue how to fight this broken *cricket*, even against Summoner i have a easyer time and win at last from time to time but against a WL i cant remember a single game what i won. So do someone know a way to fight them? Or should i just better go afk until the devs fix this match up?

 

 

[Avalyn]

To make a long story short, no

[Stormpooper]

On 2016-08-08 at 3:26 AM, Avalyn said:

To make a long story short, no

You're joking, right?

 

Let's say the WL has:

dragon helix (cuz dragoncall would just be stupid) no CD but the only time they will cast it on you is when wingstorm hits (btw it " Penetrates Deflect", not block and is the only real damaging attack besides bombardment which can be parried).

pierce wingstorm (otherwise you can parry/block them and rip WL) 30s CD;

block disable soul shackle (the chains) 18s CD;

F1 leech (idk why, but they always seem to go with this) 45s CD unable to reset.

Sanctum (chains on the ground) lasts 6 seconds and makes the WL resist CCs (usually, otherwise they have the no-target option>>anklebiter>>rip sanctum). You can pull him out of it, wait a little (the effect triggers 3 times, each lasts 2 seconds, meaning that even pulled out they can still have up to ~1 second CC resist) and attack.

Bastion (flying papers) lasts 5 seconds and resists up to 5 attacks (meaning you can try breeze>>5pt if you feel like it). Might be annoying based on when he triggers it, but since he only has 1 resist (ss) you can force the WL to use it (CD 36s, that's enough time to beat 'em).

 

WL is most likely gonna use his time distortion (thrall creates a yellow circle around him) after hitting leech (pulls an orb out of you). Leech has a 45s CD and its cooldown cannot be reset, which means the best case scenario is for you to resist it and that will be enough time to finish the fight. Otherwise, make them airborne or wait for the circle to appear, then immediately use flock of blades to knock him out.

 

Always stick next to the WL, being <3m distance is hell for them since they only have 1 movement skill (SS).

WL has no ground counter and as long as you're next to him, the two ways out are retreat (f) and second wind (their tab (even though it is bound to 2 by default)), so you can keep pressure on them with only boot and anklebiter to save important CCs. Thrall gives a 3rd escape (1 min CD, but I always aim to kill them when thrall is not up).

 

Thrall lasts 32 seconds (summon CD is 45 seconds, leaving 13s of free time) and is basically useless. He can only make you airborne when you're stunned/dazed and has a stun on 30s CD (which can be blocked). Don't worry about it.

 

So, what I'm getting to is: stick on their ass, abuse your block (ss soul shackle, airborne and your block will be up again), this will make them panic, use everything up, and once 32 seconds are up, they will already have used their second wind on your boot/anklebiter/airborne (btw whenever they block you can just boot 'em for free stun AND they still take damage when blocking) >>ez win.

 

My mind is all over the place, try to make sense out of what I wrote here. Not the explanation guy.

[Mevelios]

I haven't done much PvP lately, but if anything, I feel warlock is a great match-up for we BMs! Maybe I haven't met many good warlocks but I mostly win against them, the only annoying part is about those standing on their familiar. Basically, Storm said everything: they have almost no anti-CC skills (F roll/hard escape/familiar switch on a really long CD), so you can land easily your CCs. The most important time at which you must defend is during the sanctum/bastion skills; bastion can easily be ruined if you happen to have cyclone ready and land a deflect/block (5 resists for bastion, cyclone hits 4 times, add in a little breeze and it's already over). As for sanctum, our pull is our best friend here (just make sure to wait a bit, the anti-CC buff may still be active)!

[Avalyn]

Theory crafting is great and all but try fighting WL like Arexor, Flara, etc. and you'll see what I mean.

WL will always win the opener. The threat of their ranged stun automatically means you cannot glide vs them.  You can either waste your HM block but they will bastion counter it and you'll be screwed later on when they actually begin throwing stuff at you, if you waste SS you'll get snared and gg, if you just plain block you will get guard breaked. WL does not even need your tab escape to 100-0 you. Anyways once they get the opener it's pretty much gg because of this. Theoretically your best option would be to HM block and then SS and run away to win the "2nd opener", but in the 1st opener WL will chase you down to your corner because they know they can win the opener 100% and so you have nowhere left to run.

 

You can get better at fighting WL, but you will never truly be able to win. For some reason only like the top 30 WL know how to tech chase so unless you're playing up there you'll probably think that you have some chance, but the reality is no.

[Stormpooper]

I don't even try to get a free stun from sprint, I just wait for them to attack and block their tether blade (they almost always do this first). Then they only have imprison daze (pierces block) and familiar onrush stun (does not) CCs left (and possibly leech). Getting snared without losing block is no problem if you're not next to the WL, and since it has 18s CD, you're free to block everything else (the only other block disabler is another form of leech).

 

Also, you can try playing time. We can easily heal over 30% a minute while WL has a 5% heal (bastion) every 36s. This also works out since WL is very vulnerable without familiar (again, 13s time + cast .8s (enough time for rush and cancel summon)).

[Enoll]

Hello,

 

I am Enoll one of the top summoners in EU and I will tell you how to beat warlocks.

 

I don't know the skill names but i will try to be as specific as possible.

 

There are two possible play scenarios, you play aggressive or defensive.

 

If you play aggressive (and I suggest you play like this because the defensive way which I will explain later will be scrapped off later on with the skill patches) you want:

 

The default skills with the following changes:

 

- 4 points on 3 kd for the extra 3 % healing (just in case?)

- C dash 

 

If you play defensive you want:

 

- 3 points on 2 right branch for iframe

- C healing (i prefer the first branch because of the 24 sec cd and 3 chi back)

- 4 points on 3 kd for the extra 3 % healing

 

The main dps that's coming from the WL is when they use time warp (i think its called) and thats the yellow bubble that appears that looks like a sun and the thrall has put his hands down, when that happens you have 5 seconds to be an acrobat and iframe everything:

 

Example if you are playing defensive: SS backwards + E + Q + E + 2 (iframe defensive) + LB (cyclone) + HM block and HOLD the block while the buff is on and just drop it when it needs a reset. 

As i am explaining when you are playing defensive... use all your healing power. For instance to close the gab you can use iframe 2 and mid hits you can press C healing that goes through defense and get an opener with an air combo, rest is all neutral game.

 

 

Example if you are playing aggressive: SS backwards + E  + Q + E + HM BLOCK and keep the block up (you will gain a cyclone out of it) + Cyclone.

 

 

The only way you would lose is if you dont have your HM block up during those stuffs. Rest is again neutral game. The neutral game is a lot easier with the aggressive build becuase you have more valuable gap closers like 2stun + c dash.

 

Also a good trick is that when you rush a WL and they push you back, while they are pushing you back spam your C if it is dash, you will be right back in their face while they are weakened.

 

When I am saying that the defensive build will be scrapped out I mean that 2 iframe will be deleted in the future and will be moved on C and the iframe wont be 3-4 secs but 1.5 seconds.

 

 

Usually you shouldnt have problems killing WLs. 

[Provois]

ty for all the input so far. Well i guess i have to practice some stuff still not won a single match against a WL :/.

[Whiteflashkevin]

On 8/6/2016 at 6:21 PM, Provois said:

WL are most time invulnerable because of it low cd shield and the time they are not protected by his flying papers the hide them self in the daemon, block and/or put some golden chain on the ground. Together with this 24/7 protection they can burst you down in like 2 sec. with a shitload of op damage skills who give a *cricket* on block or other protection skills like hm block.

 

A usually game against a WL is like this.

-WL summon and throw his daemon

-use some kind of self protection so that all my attacks do nothing to him

-unleash the blue hell on me what kill me in like 5 sec no matter when i tab or use block/ hm block

-repeat for round 2 

 

I have no clue how to fight this broken *cricket*, even against Summoner i have a easyer time and win at last from time to time but against a WL i cant remember a single game what i won. So do someone know a way to fight them? Or should i just better go afk until the devs fix this match up?

 

 

Put all skills to stun and you are ok once warlock uses escape just go for the kill. If warlock is using guard break chain try blocking and moving to cancel it so that warlock uses his chains. If its field aoe chains you need to block since they are betting on you panicking and getting a few shots in since their helix doesn't go past defense. Always keep in mind that warlock has shit escapes. Even his stun escape can be tech chased since it has no i frames after animation is over so rush or raid should get you in attack range. Once warlock has used his ss he only has a stupid block but be careful of warlock that use counter block cause you will be playing right on their hand. They will either launch you or push and use their skills with no animation.

 

So tldr don't let warlock any room to breathe and set up their skills cause their counter BM skills have long cd. Use thrall attack to your advantage to get a cyclone and they die pretty fast because of low health. 39k is their arena health. Most BM i face do the wrong thing and just wait for their skills to finish cd but at the time my counter skills are up  and you are *cricket*ed. Keep constant pressure so they panic.

[xNina]

Lol is this a joke? 

[Avalyn]

Actually there's a video that finally shows what I was talking about with top WL vs top BM.

 

Watch this situation: BM has ALL COOLDOWNS (F roll, tab escape, SS, Q/E, cyclone, HM block, you name it). WL DOESN'T EVEN CARE about ANY of those things.

And keep in mind Luki is not just your random pleb BM. This is what any fight against an actual warlock looks like. I can tell you that on NA only ~5 warlocks can play properly (even most of the top 30's don't).

 

 

 

[Stormpooper]

What you showed there is proof that positioning matters.

[Nowaki]

Tenha is OP tho, not the class but the player.

[Avalyn]

Yes, positioning matters and that is also why most warlocks are bad and think their class is weak. He didn't record the part before that but it is very easy for warlock to position you in that way from the get-go, most WL's don't realize how to take advantage of that.

 

If you run towards the warlock at the start, they have the ranged stun. If you use your SS on a WL simply to resist that also puts you in a terrible spot with the amount of snares WL have. If you block, they will break it. 

 

With their class alone they have just forced you into a situation where you have to back into the wall on your side. In order to make your way into a more open space by competing with him for the center arena without getting stunned or snared, you have to sacrifice major iframes and that means you can't really survive later on if he time distortions.

[xNina]

On Saturday, August 06, 2016 at 11:21 AM, Provois said:

WL are most time invulnerable because of it low cd shield and the time they are not protected by his flying papers the hide them self in the daemon, block and/or put some golden chain on the ground. Together with this 24/7 protection they can burst you down in like 2 sec. with a shitload of op damage skills who give a *cricket* on block or other protection skills like hm block.

 

A usually game against a WL is like this.

-WL summon and throw his daemon

-use some kind of self protection so that all my attacks do nothing to him

-unleash the blue hell on me what kill me in like 5 sec no matter when i tab or use block/ hm block

-repeat for round 2 

 

I have no clue how to fight this broken *cricket*, even against Summoner i have a easyer time and win at last from time to time but against a WL i cant remember a single game what i won. So do someone know a way to fight them? Or should i just better go afk until the devs fix this match up?

 

 

Lol low CD iframe? WL have only 1 real iframe last 5 sec or 5 hit with 36 LONG CD!! and that blue hell you say is dragon call bue you can ss o iframe that, just hm block all the time and avoid their dragon with ss iframe you will alway win, you need to know how to play ur class WL has only 1 real escape "2"(second wind) with 36 sec CD and 1 iframe 36 sec CD stop complaining