Melee VS ranged classes / disadvantage

[Zerecas]

10 minutes ago, Shukran said:

so learn to play is valid only in pve for melee? in a OWPVP enviroinment?

 

oh look, the arbitrary silllyness.

So it's normal that the melee classes took many of the top spots in PvP? So range classes deserve that l2p issue, you guys don't? Double standard much?

 

What is it about OWPvP?

KFM with their evasive/ resist buff? BD & BM with their attacking + resist buff so they can freely do their Lightning Slash + CC? 

Ever see FM taking up a bunch of enemies at once by themselves in SSP? None, they usually take 1 on 1 or grip at faction fight situation.

I only see melee classes mentioned above jumping on a bunch of opponents themselves, heck even Destroyer with good gear just jump in, CC and start spinning, chances are the weak enemies die instantly.

Quit bitching.

[Shukran]

@Zerecas

let list:

 

- PVE and PVP are 2 different and exclusive enviroinment. if u want to mix apples and oranges, dont expect to be taken serious. really. so, let's talk about PvE, because it is a PvE thread.

 

 start with OWPVP:

- melee divide in tank- KFM / "offtank"- BM **/ dps- BD&destro

assuming EQUAL equip, melee classes have an enourmous amount of effort to put the same dps as ranged FM (which is the best DPS class in game.). warlock and summoners have still less effort than melee. but for the sake of discussion let's focus on FM.

 

OWPVP:

 

ogdonnies, TERRORS, grass bosses and other faction's players.

- ogdonny: stupid boss - reward is a nice zero, other than daily. put it in prospective anyway: a Melee dpsing it will get at max 80% of a ranged DPS because mechanics.

- TERRORS: ahaha GEGE. 180° attack that does 10-20k dmg (equip-wise), which has NO pattern, which is instant, which is MELEE. aka melees have to take count of it while ranged take a coffee dpsing it. 360° attack look previous description. RED SINGLE AOE: needs a Iframe. so put in prospective: both melee and ranged have to deal with it. wow. a good preentive iframe can divide a good chest drop from a "he didnt drop anything.". don't count that 180-360° attack knockback opponent. say hello melees.

- other bosses: grass boss: almighty TRIPLE RED AOE ATTACK: aka look how it goes your prestige. big pig: i love to run after him with his awesome rush attack. u know melee have to stay close ranged to do dps while FM just lmb-rmb it? no? i tell you! little pig: i want to add it because even if it is funny and cute, his attacks does 20k each. FYI.

- faction opponents: i dont get why other faction 's 80%+ population in OWPVP is ranged...maybe because they like challenge so they use weak classes, maybe. sooo nice to be killed while doing a nice and cute TERROR because u have to take care more on his wonderfull aoe attacks and no pattern skill than who is around you.

 

want to argue on point please instead now on taking out of contest some random sentence?

i wont bother writing more. since i can silence you just with this.

 

edit: FYI KFM legendary counter assumes you to actually counter a skill. but when u are surrounded by other faction players that 0.3s delay will kill you anyway while u did...zero dps.

 

 

** if u want to focus ion this: KFM offensive TANK because of buffs . BM defensive tank. but still dps-wise BM>>KFM

[Kohashi]

11 minutes ago, Zerecas said:

So it's normal that the melee classes took many of the top spots in PvP? So range classes deserve that l2p issue, you guys don't? Double standard much?

 

What is it about OWPvP?

KFM with their evasive/ resist buff? BD & BM with their attacking + resist buff so they can freely do their Lightning Slash + CC? 

Ever see FM taking up a bunch of enemies at once by themselves in SSP? None, they usually take 1 on 1 or grip at faction fight situation.

I only see melee classes mentioned above jumping on a bunch of opponents themselves, heck even Destroyer with good gear just jump in, CC and start spinning, chances are the weak enemies die instantly.

Quit bitching.

You realize that you are pretty much the only one saying in this topic melee > range. how about a challenge.

 

Pick a server. I make a FM you make a KFM and we both start lvling, lets see if your affirmation stands after all this. 

[Cyan Hirijikawa]

14 minutes ago, Kohashi said:

You realize that you are pretty much the only one saying in this topic melee > range. how about a challenge.

 

Pick a server. I make a FM you make a KFM and we both start lvling, lets see if your affirmation stands after all this. 

+1

[Zerecas]

2 minutes ago, Kohashi said:

You realize that you are pretty much the only one saying in this topic melee > range. how about a challenge.

 

Pick a server. I make a FM you make a KFM and we both start lvling, lets see if your affirmation stands after all this. 

Hope you do realize the post quoted on are pointing at PvP. Don't believe what I've said? Take a look at the top ranking board of both NA/EU. The data there is from official side, not a statistical information from me. And no, I said it before, I won't make any ani-cancel classes when they are so ping dependent. I'm about to make a BD so I can resist all day long in Arena and OWPvP, wish I have that much disposable time to play a second character.

 

But since OP mainly talks about dungeon; hence-

My stance on PvE is as simple as it get, FM apparently can survive in melee situation, if that's the case, so can melee when they've got appropriate skill set for close combat. If you can't, that's your incapability, don't blame it on the class.

 

You question me on how I don't understand KFM class itself, but my observation says otherwise. You refuse a hypothetical scenario from me. Alright, its all good and understandable, Therefore, I posted two videos as you've watched, two different classes taking the lead respectively. 

"My philosophy is very easy regardless of game: you hit first  the boss first and you cant wait 10 seconds for me to aggro it" Is what you said. Alright, KFM in Yeti video says otherwise. You guys QQ about melee get all the shits at melee distance and range classes only being range and spam ez life, alright I linked that Necropoliis video where FM, a range class without melee protection handling melee situation, all good.

So? I posted that video, It's no longer hypothetical, its a solid evidence, unlike you guys, giving me all that low AP FM ez life, more like I-wanted-to-get-carried-as-a-weak-FM or I'm-melee-but-I-don't-want-to-tank-or-don't-know-how,-carry-please. 

 

Hello? Its dungeon, 6 mans or 4 mans, what AoE can possibly takes insane skill from either range or melee to counter if they know the mechanism? Only know how to SS out of AoE but not iframes from QQ/EE/SS or simply walk away when the AoE ain't 360 wide? Hello? Does that sound like classes issue? Thing is I don't mind taking aggro if needed, I just want my dailies to get clear, I do everything, you at least, at minimal effort, dps it. Its that simple, but hey, don't go around and QQ that you can't survive in melee situation as a freaking melee. Funny that you guys talk about SSP issue when most of the time, the aggro is on cats from different Summoners or maybe, Thralls from Warlocks. 

 

On 5/26/2016 at 0:14 AM, 882184_1452550488 said:

this thread is such fun to read.. I main kfm tank and i have no problem regain aggro if a fm pulls the boss.. its just how that person who tank needs to learn how to use his/her skills better.. ^^ 

[Kohashi]

4 minutes ago, Zerecas said:

Hope you do realize the post quoted on are pointing at PvP. Don't believe what I've said? Take a look at the top ranking board of both NA/EU. The data there is from official side, not a statistical information from me. And no, I said it before, I won't make any ani-cancel classes when they are so ping dependent. I'm about to make a BD so I can resist all day long in Arena and OWPvP, wish I have that much disposable time to play a second character.

 

But since OP mainly talks about dungeon; hence-

My stance on PvE is as simple as it get, FM apparently can survive in melee situation, if that's the case, so can melee when they've got appropriate skill set for close combat. If you can't, that's your incapability, don't blame it on the class.

 

You question me on how I don't understand KFM class itself, but my observation says otherwise. You refuse a hypothetical scenario from me. Alright, its all good and understandable, Therefore, I posted two videos as you've watched, two different classes taking the lead respectively. 

"My philosophy is very easy regardless of game: you hit first  the boss first and you cant wait 10 seconds for me to aggro it" Is what you said. Alright, KFM in Yeti video says otherwise. You guys QQ about melee get all the shits at melee distance and range classes only being range and spam ez life, alright I linked that Necropoliis video where FM, a range class without melee protection handling melee situation, all good.

So? I posted that video, It's no longer hypothetical, its a solid evidence, unlike you guys, giving me all that low AP FM ez life, more like I-wanted-to-get-carried-as-a-weak-FM or I'm-melee-but-I-don't-want-to-tank-or-don't-know-how,-carry-please. 

 

Hello? Its dungeon, 6 mans or 4 mans, what AoE can possibly takes insane skill from either range or melee to counter if they know the mechanism? Only know how to SS out of AoE but not iframes from QQ/EE/SS or simply walk away when the AoE ain't 360 wide? Hello? Does that sound like classes issue? Thing is I don't mind taking aggro if needed, I just want my dailies to get clear, I do everything, you at least, at minimal effort, dps it. Its that simple, but hey, don't go around and QQ that you can't survive in melee situation as a freaking melee. Funny that you guys talk about SSP issue when most of the time, the aggro is on cats from different Summoners or maybe, Thralls from Warlocks. 

 

this thread is such fun to read.. I main kfm tank and i have no problem regain aggro if a fm pulls the boss.. its just how that person who tank needs to learn how to use his/her skills better.. ^^ 

you post this absurd long post and you dont even provide a potato at the end of it.

 

So i take you aint man/woman enough to take the challange? Come on I double dare you. Enough excuses.. lets go! Pick a server..

[Zerecas]

Just now, Kohashi said:

you post this absurd long post and you dont even provide a potato at the end of it.

 

So i take you aint man/woman enough to take the challange? Come on I double dare you. Enough excuses.. lets go! Pick a server..

Provide more than I needed. No one has that much free time like you just do a make character for the sake of proving when the videos I posted, which you don't even dare to talk about, is more than enough to prove my point.

 

If you don't want to acknowledge it, then don't QQ, I've answered every points of your every single posts, yet you on the other hand, ignore some and pick some from my contexts. Can't handle the truth of the needs to git gud? Aww its alright, truths are often harsh, play a get-carried-range instead then.

[Kohashi]

1 minute ago, Zerecas said:

Provide more than I needed. No one has that much free time like you just do a make character for the sake of proving when the videos I posted, which you don't even dare to talk about, is more than enough to prove my point.

 

If you don't want to acknowledge it, then don't QQ, I've answered every points of your every single posts, yet you on the other hand, ignore some and pick some from my contexts. Can't handle the truth of the needs to git gud? Aww its alright, truths are often harsh, play a get-carried-range instead then.

You surely had plenty of time to search your poorly constructed excuses for the last 6 pages.  excuses and more excuses... it's ok. You  aint man enough .. it's ok.. pats on the back.

 

PS: every time you say git good a puppy and a kitty dies.. please have mercy on the poor animals.

[Zerecas]

2 minutes ago, Kohashi said:

You surely had plenty of time to search your poorly constructed excuses for the last 6 pages.  excuses and more excuses... it's ok. You  aint man enough .. it's ok.. pats on the back.

 

PS: every time you say git good a puppy and a kitty dies.. please have mercy on the poor animals.

Totally pointless reply, key points from you, oh wait, they don't exist, are totally off and those videos are excuses too? Please, you need to relearn your definition of excuses.

Seems like you are running out of third grade craps to even make an argument now eh?

Then this truly proves my point and end my case. Thanks and bye.

[Shukran]

i still wait for your accurate answer to my post...

[Kohashi]

2 minutes ago, Zerecas said:

Totally pointless reply, key points from you, oh wait, they don't exist, are totally off and those videos are excuses too? Please, you need to relearn your definition of excuses.

Seems like you are running out of third grade craps to even make an argument now eh?

Then this truly proves my point and end my case. Thanks and bye.

all I see is you dodging my dare and searching for excuses.

 

And please spare me that condescending tone when you use 'git good' and other kindergarten vocabulary to construct your arguments.

[OniOfTheSword]

51 minutes ago, Zerecas said:

Hope you do realize the post quoted on are pointing at PvP. Don't believe what I've said? Take a look at the top ranking board of both NA/EU. The data there is from official side, not a statistical information from me.

Funny that you guys talk about SSP issue when most of the time, the aggro is on cats from different Summoners or maybe, Thralls from Warlocks. 

I'm just going to refute these two points. You talk so much about melee l2p, then say melee > ranged in pvp looking at ranking boards. 2015 world champ was a force master. He beat a blade master on his way to the top. Ranged is fine. L2P. Heck, even your linked video has arguably the best FM in EU, and he beats all melee classses consistently.

 

As far as SSP goes, it doesn't matter who is tanking:

1) Terrors use instant 5-meter 360 degree aoes, melees have downtime or take crazy damage.

2) Boar runs away using its charge attack. Melees have downtime and have to evade or take crazy damage.

3) Melees are closest to the players of the opposite faction (unless ranged are just terrible at positioning themselves), and have to be much more aware of enemy players.

 

With bosses being zerged so much in SSP, a few seconds of downtime could mean the difference between finishing quests and not finishing quests. I don't think there's any room for argument when it comes to SSP. Ranged clearly has a huge advantage. Else you wouldn't see hordes of people rolling FM/Sum just for SSP. Bad frame rate drops/server lag/crappy client only makes it worse for melee.

 

I have no issues finishing the quests now on my BM cause I've upgraded my gear to a good point. But when my gear wasn't as good (500ish AP, no Asura SS hence loss of AP and cdmg, no perfect rolls/fusions on Yeti), getting credit for the kills in that lagfest was just a nightmare.

[Zerecas]

1 hour ago, Shukran said:

-

Yes, PvE and PvP are two different environment, whatever buffs you asked for, will indirectly affect one and another. Assassin's blue buff is one great example of how it greatly impact both sides. 

 

And yes, when we do SSP, we're either there for keys or most likely for dailies. If you get that 1% HP from bosses as your damage total output, you are good to go.

Pig bosses are easy, who the hell has problem with it assume that everyone have the necessary equipment, no one in my SSP run has problem with it, the only problem lies with the damage output, which is from gears.

 

Terrors/ Manes on the other hand, are troublesome, I totally acknowledge that, but mind you, SSP is a group faction run, get a party with soulburn and fighting spirit if your gear is that suck and can't damage it individually. And when you know that you ain't the aggro'd player, you simply move to the other side and dps. On my run, Terror don't move that much just in case the reset trigger. Plus, your faction's summoners don't taunt? In addition, there is a trend from Terrors especially in the beginning, 6 or 7 seconds after Terror got aggro, is likely its first massive AoE attack or after an animation of attack. Not everyone will have the time to react when you only determine it via the red warning, I mean, fps drop in faction duh. I can still get killed by 2 hit of different AoE in the end as a range but I don't have any melee defensive skills, you guys do, not me. And you said it as if no range classes will get the aggro? Mane too, has skills that only hit range distance.

 

That boar bosses full of mobility from the daily quest is 100% troublesome for melee, I agree on that, totally. But again, get a party with buffs that will increase your credit rate for sure. If no asses from the other faction interrupting the run, I can hardly imagine that the players would die from this boss, to be honest.

 

Like other said, who's doing SSP for prestige? Definitely not me, I do get 100PP and exchange for a soulstone pouches that give like 6 or so amount of it. But dude, that's like bonus from doing SSP dailies.

 

14 minutes ago, OniOfTheSword said:

-

I talk so much about these crying melees need to l2p at PvE, OP talks about dungeon, I simply go ahead and talk about it. Btw, Championship only has 1 winner, obviously he's gonna use one class? So that one class suddenly becomes godly as a result from it? Everyone on the top board ranking are definitely joining the fight? Is this how KR works? Melee taking up the top NA/EU spot is fake as of now? Is that really the case? I don't accept Lv50 balance when we're at Lv45, nor I will accept that HM20 later on when we are at HM10

 

Standing at range distance is just as tough, because you aren't in the crowd but on the open space, that's easy prey for everyone, includes me, if I want to ruin someone, range is my first choice. That said, melees can do it better with their attacking + resist on crowded opponents, I don't want to explain too much on this anymore.

 

Zerg issue = gears and the amount of players on the SSP run issue. End.

 

And why are we on SSP again. Dungeons bro, dungeons..

[OniOfTheSword]

8 minutes ago, Zerecas said:

And why are we on SSP again. Dungeons bro, dungeons..

 

1 hour ago, Zerecas said:

Funny that you guys talk about SSP issue when most of the time, the aggro is on cats from different Summoners or maybe, Thralls from Warlocks. 

Since you made it sound like cats and thralls made melee life easier.

 

8 minutes ago, Zerecas said:

Standing at range distance is just as tough, because you aren't in the crowd but on the open space, that's easy prey for everyone, includes me, if I want to ruin someone, range is my first choice. That said, melees can do it better with their attacking + resist on crowded opponents, I don't want to explain too much on this anymore.

From the standpoint of crimson, let me draw a picture for you with how we're positioned

 

----------------------------Blue side-------------------------

 

              

                 Blues

 

Mining      Terrors

Site           +red melee

                 

                Red ranged

 

 

----------------------------Red side---------------------------

 

So explain to me how ranged are targeted first?

[Said]

Its really funny to see how ranged guys are trying to defend their OP classes,

 

Ranged are much better than melee at every PVE aspect of this game. FMs are clearly outdpsing every other class. In equal gear they dps like they have 100 extra AP.

SSP? - ranged

Tower? - ranged

4 ppl? - 2FMs, warlock and someone for tanking is you perfect choice.

 

As I said in another topic devs just need to check statistics, to see how terribly unbalanced in pve this game is.

But there is not much hope, because as far as I know game was in this state in Korea for a long time and nobody cared. Koreans love casters.

Even when DPS meter will be implemented and everyone will see how unfair this game is noone will care.

 

p.s. The only tiny hope I have is because  Jonathan Lien "plays" destroyer, but I am not sure it will help.

[Zerecas]

20 minutes ago, OniOfTheSword said:

 

Since you made it sound like cats and thralls made melee life easier.

Edit:

From the standpoint of crimson, let me draw a picture for you with how we're positioned

 

----------------------------Blue side-------------------------

 

              

                 Blues

 

Mining      Terrors

Site           +red melee

                 

                Red ranged

 

 

----------------------------Red side---------------------------

 

So explain to me how ranged are targeted first?

Not gonna lie, ranges are better than melee in SSP and only SSP/ MW in term of bosses, if dungeon shits on you, you git gud. But only 1 individual has SSP aggro at a time, 1 melee or 1 range or 1 pet. So.. you analyze the situation yourself.

But having pets on aggro definitely makes everyone life easier, no one likes getting aimed by a World boss, specifically, getting bind locked by Terrors/ Captains, it is almost an instant death to me. Been there, done that.

Edit:

Simply go the other way round? Is your enemy faction that sucks or you're in the major faction?

 

Using Mushin Tower as benchmark as the post above is like what? So no melee has ever cleared Floor 15? L2P scenario? I heard Summoner had it easy on F15 but that is all.

[Cyan Hirijikawa]

45 minutes ago, Zerecas said:

Not gonna lie, ranges are better than melee in SSP and only SSP/ MW in term of bosses, if dungeon shits on you, you git gud. But only 1 individual has SSP aggro at a time, 1 melee or 1 range or 1 pet. So.. you analyze the situation yourself.

But having pets on aggro definitely makes everyone life easier, no one likes getting aimed by a World boss, specifically, getting bind locked by Terrors/ Captains, it is almost an instant death to me. Been there, done that.

Edit:

Simply go the other way round? Is your enemy faction that sucks or you're in the major faction?

 

Using Mushin Tower as benchmark as the post above is like what? So no melee has ever cleared Floor 15? L2P scenario? I heard Summoner had it easy on F15 but that is all.

You don´t get it. We as melee can do it and survive but it´s double the effort then ranged.

 

[882184_1452550488]

every class can do all dungeons doesnt matter if you play 4 melee in 4 a man party at all.. just bring the player and not the class and stop bitching about this range vs melee bullshit everyday its sad so read it.

 

NA players that play ON korean server with 300 ping can do SSP without dying and get loot from it? and they play melee so its more you git gud and learn to play your class before you go to forum and cry about it everytime :)

 

and no I dont play range and no i dont have a range alt - im playing KFM(585) as main and got a destroyer(459 ap) and i get loot from SSP everytime i do it on both?

 

and for dungeons, how on earth will you guys have any chance in contents that will come.. when you cant iframe a attack? maybe check what you doing wrong instead of bitching about Disadvantage..

 

[Shukran]

8 minutes ago, 882184_1452550488 said:

every class can do all dungeons doesnt matter if you play 4 melee in 4 a man party at all.. just bring the player and not the class and stop bitching about this range vs melee bullshit everyday its sad so read it.

 

NA players that play ON korean server with 300 ping can do SSP without dying and get loot from it? and they play melee so its more you git gud and learn to play your class before you go to forum and cry about it everytime :)

 

and no I dont play range and no i dont have a range alt - im playing KFM(585) as main and got a destroyer(459 ap) and i get loot from SSP everytime i do it on both?

 

and for dungeons, how on earth will you guys have any chance in contents that will come.. when you cant iframe a attack? maybe check what you doing wrong instead of bitching about Disadvantage..

 

actually  u said long ago u would have left the game. amusing.

 

yeah, someone in the world with a 1GB dwn 50mb upload and years of experience in other versions does something we cannot, hence all discussion is obsolete. yeah

 

but denying without proof is easier. because someone somehwree did it. cool.

[GreenOwl]

No one will fix balance.

Cats will be most easy and OP class.

Melee hard.

 

[Shukran]

16 minutes ago, GreenOwl said:

No one will fix balance.

Cats will be most easy and OP class.

Melee hard.

 

i agree. but i find offensive that some random ranged class user come forum bullshitting when some melee vent his frustration.

[MaxJz]

On 27/05/2016 at 8:43 PM, Tsunakai said:

*moderated*

First, as melee we dont need a party save. We have plenty of tools to survive.

The fact that FM has a party frost, 2 double cc in a single skill (range stun?), self heal, and un interrupted dps, is the issue.

I main a sin and have a geared FM, dont get me wrong, i love and play both, i have read everthing i can to get the max from each class (I have others).

Even if you do save others, nobody owes you anything. It is easy to do, sin, fm, smn, class abilitiy, in fact it will be a bad thing if you dont use it lol.

 

The topic is, and i can confirm, melee dps have to do more than range, in order to get the same result. Period.

Not asking for a buff, not asking for a nerf, this is what it is.

[luzt]

Then you should've checked the stars before creating your Sin just because you wanna be a ninja!!!

And not complain on the forums about it!! Kappa :D

 

In all seriousness, atleast melee isn't sleep inducing as range.

ooooh I mean unless you got good gear and have to kite the boss in circles because you have aggro..

Which sucks anyway, even small movements of the boss is an annoyance to melee

[Tsunakai]

15 hours ago, MaxJz said:

First, as melee we dont need a party save. We have plenty of tools to survive.

Not according to this post.

[Cyan Hirijikawa]

1 hour ago, Tsunakai said:

Not according to this post.

@luzt so what is your class? and what level are you? what is your AP? 

Are you talking about lvl 30 mobs fights or actual end game 50+ 450+ AP gameplay.