Quitting this game - PvP gives no feedback

[Cogbyrn]

30 minutes ago, Carthage said:

Thanks for hyperbolizing what I want in a strawman.

 

I want them to go from nothing to something, and apparently that is asking the world.

 

 

 

 

 

That's the thing.  I'm not really hyperbolizing, and that's the problem.  Here are the questions you asked:

 

"You don't know what your opponent is doing. You see "stunned", the game gives you no information on why you were stunned. Perhaps they countered what you did?"

 

So when a Stun happens, you want to know how you were stunned.  Counter?  Regular ability?  You want tooltip information about what kind of ability.

 

"Perhaps they can do it at a certain range? Perhaps it's just a move that always stuns?"

 

Again, you want to know what the range on the ability is, and you want to know if there is a chance for it to stun, or if it always stuns.  More tooltip information, at the time the ability is used.

 

"Different parts of different moves counter everything you do. You don't know what the properties of their moves do. You don't know the cooldowns on their moves. You don't know what moves they are currently doing. "

 

So you want the name of the move, you want to know the attributes of each individual part of the move's animation, and you want to know the cooldown.  More tooltip information.

 

What am I supposed to assume besides, on every ability use, you want to know everything about the move that was just used on you?

 

It's too much information to consume at once on-screen.  It isn't too much to ask for you to investigate yourself.

 

And the game gives you more than you think.  If an Assassin is standing still, hands black spheres and trailing lines as they go in circles, they are Countering.  Sometimes they'll do it while a projectile is mid-air.  That's partially your fault for allowing that to happen.  If you get Dazed while a Blade * spins, maybe their spin Dazes.  You extrapolate based on context clues, and you learn.  The game doesn't have to go out of its way to explain in order to gain knowledge about the game.

[Diradem]

Honestly, people like you who expect to be hand fed the information are not the type of people I want to be playing with. Not all people want to be babied by being hand fed the information. Some people do like some challenge of analyzing what just happened. As several other people have offered solutions, I do not plan on repeating any here. I wish you luck where ever you go, but know that in this community, you won't be particularly missed.

[Carthage]

34 minutes ago, Nebuchadnezzar said:

Wow, someone is mentally challenged. You have full description of all skills. What you want (and suggest few posts higher) is everyone and everything, game itself included explaining every single thing to you so you don't have to exert your brain. Oh, I guess there's the issue...

You want game to just freeze in the middle of pvp and tell you "Your enemy used Decoy. By being attacked during 2 second window he gets teleported behind you and has been put into Stealth mode". Like what the hell? Just quit lazy 13 year old. Just go, never come back. You just suck and you try to blame it on "lack of information". You clearly know how to talk big despite being sh...oe, so I guess you have huge inferiority complex that you try to patch with distorting reality and unjustifiably huge ego. Any damage on your ego is being rationalized in the most idiotic way possible. Making thread here also suggests you crave for attention. It all fits going by Adler's first definition of inferiority complex (well, it was about 7 year old kids going to school, but in terms of intelligence you can be counted as one).

 

No, I want more than the zero feedback the game provides you from PvP.

 

If the solution is "Just go read up on every thing outside the game and then watch fan made videos that may or may not exist", the game has failed at teaching the player about the combat.

 

If this wasn't enough, this glorious rectum of a fanbase( you specifically ) is more than enough to make me never want to play the game again, and actively recommend others avoid it at all costs.

[Carthage]

12 minutes ago, Diradem said:

Honestly, people like you who expect to be hand fed the information are not the type of people I want to be playing with. Not all people want to be babied by being hand fed the information. Some people do like some challenge of analyzing what just happened. As several other people have offered solutions, I do not plan on repeating any here. I wish you luck where ever you go, but know that in this community, you won't be particularly missed.

 

"Lol look at this guy he actually wants to know what's going on in the game"

 

You can't possibly be this far up ncsoft's *cricket*

[Enamour]

1 minute ago, Carthage said:

 

No, I want more than the zero feedback the game provides you from PvP.

 

If the solution is "Just go read up on every thing outside the game and then watch fan made videos that may or may not exist", the game has failed at teaching the player about the combat.

 

If this wasn't enough, this glorious rectum of a fanbase( you specifically ) is more than enough to make me never want to play the game again, and actively recommend others avoid it at all costs.

 

Or...you can just quit. If you genuinely wanted devs to see this, you'd send in a ticket with a lengthy explanation and then just peace out. It's very apparently nothing that anyone can or will say here will please you unless it perhaps blatantly agrees with you. There's nothing productive from this thread because it's simply just a rant about an aspect you personally do not like. In addition to this, there is no conversation to be had because all points brought up are dismissed and ultimately leads to "I hate this game".

 

It's one thing to give feedback about why you're quitting to help developers learn perhaps. It is, however, another thing to do what you're doing, which is downplaying every comment and just reiterating what you hate and why every response is not valid to you.

 

Won't reply because I cannot fathom that you'd say anything worth my time at this point. You're perfectly free to quit anytime you'd like.

[fhoeng]

I don't know about u guys, but I like my game not freely hand out information so easily.

 

It separate men from boys.

 

However, I think OP's problem is the game is too fast and lack info while not accustomed to this type of game, so he has triple level reasons to get frustrated over. It is still just a game, if you feel you can find better usage of your time, all the better.

 

I personally feel this game's CC are really cheap moves designed for boys, unlike fighting game where that kind of stun are rewarded for using risk... but whatever =p

[Subpargamer]

Sounds like a whiny child who can't play the game adequately so he complains... congrats, learn to play, learn the classes and you'll be fine... get over your fragile ego.

[Carthage]

53 minutes ago, Subpargamer said:

Sounds like a whiny child who can't play the game adequately so he complains... congrats, learn to play, learn the classes and you'll be fine... get over your fragile ego.

I'm not wasting several weeks grinding to learn a bottom tier korean f2p porn game's pvp

[DevilNagaMagic]

The key is to really be good at controlling all types of combat as if it is something extremely remarkable right?!

[Cogbyrn]

5 minutes ago, Carthage said:

I'm not wasting several weeks grinding to learn a bottom tier korean f2p porn game's pvp

 

If you want to make a point about how the game could provide more tools to help educate players in-game, such as post-round damage summaries, an in-game encyclopedia for reference, etc., then you can.  But if this is what you're going to boil yourself down to, then all of your arguments turn to mush.

[Second]

Here we go again. Boys, grab your popcorn, sit tightly and watch the show.

[Syrath]

I can certainly understand the OPs points I didn't play in CBT or other versions so it's all new. Learning your combos and how to counter what another class and player is doing to you is not easy at first. Add in the heat of pvp battle it's difficult to know what you did wrong and they did right.

 

Is there a combat log recorded to look through after a the match? It would help if they provided a final combo or largest dmg moves at the end.

 

I've watched a ton of youtube videos to see how my class should counter or spec ect. . I'm still not cetain the games for me, I like a variety of pvp types but none of this means I dislike BnS.

 

One thing players can do is use the surveys when they inquire about combat.

 

Anyway good luck.

[phinders]

lol it is funny the amount of salt in this thread with the name carthage.  they got salted to the max. 

[Cogbyrn]

I just played 4 1v1 matches with my FM in my ultra low tier, and each one was interesting.  My ping was behaving so the game was 1500-1550 rating manageable, and I was able to fight 3 Assassins and a KFM.  Each Assassin seemed to do things a little bit differently, and it was a joy to try to discover how to best combat each one's style.  The KFM was the most unique, because I won handily in the first match, he won handily in the second, and I scraped the third out.  After the first I had this confidence, like KFM was lacking some tools it needed and I could overwhelm, then the second match put me in my place really, really hard.  A little patience in the third and a few anticipating evades and I was able to mitigate the CC disaster better.  I'm still not 100% on which of the KFM's initiations are Counters and which are on CDs, which I need to learn, but it was a thrill knowing that if I played it right, I could take it handily.  If I played it wrong, I would get myself handed.

 

Things happen fast in this game and it can be difficult to get a grasp of what leads into what, what you need to escape, and which abilities you need to react swiftly to in order to roll out of danger.  A 400 ping doesn't really lend itself to high-octane skill, but I had a great time finishing up the night with some PvP.

 

In short, you really need to give this game time and separate yourself from caring about winning/losing.  Make it about growing and becoming better, then you can truly focus on the information you need to learn more about other classes, even without playing them.

[phinders]

cogbyrn just gave everyone a massive lesson in gaming.    Leave every match asking yourself what did I do wrong and you will get to levels only dreamed of in every game.    many can't handle not having someone to blame for their loss.  

[Carthage]

12 minutes ago, phinders said:

cogbyrn just gave everyone a massive lesson in gaming.    Leave every match asking yourself what did I do wrong and you will get to levels only dreamed of in every game.    many can't handle not having someone to blame for their loss.  

That's the whole point of the thread.

 

You don't KNOW what you did wrong.

 

Did you attack into a counter? Did you break the wrong CC? Was your spacing off? Did you attack into a move that resists damage? Did you miss time cooldowns? The game doesn't tell you shit.

[phinders]

that comes from being new though, not from faulty game design...Imagine you just started LoL,  now take that first teamfight you are in.   You will not be able to see what is happening or anything.   This game is very new in NA.  Nobody could be a pro in this time frame unless they played for years on an other client.    Try sparring against a class you have trouble with.  sparr a whole lot until you know what they have, what they will do, also what they expect you to do, so much information isn't going to be mastered in 1 week. 

[Cogbyrn]

6 minutes ago, Carthage said:

That's the whole point of the thread.

 

You don't KNOW what you did wrong.

 

Did you attack into a counter? Did you break the wrong CC? Was your spacing off? Did you attack into a move that resists damage? Did you miss time cooldowns? The game doesn't tell you shit.

 

There's joy in discovery for me, and there are ways to test.  For example, a few times I just circle-strafed around/away from the KFM, watching him.  I saw his hands circle around multiple times but he didn't initiate.  To me, that says that I was feeding into his counters with the beginner mistake of attacking immediately out of being CC'd.  If you fall into a pattern, you're putty in an Assassin/KFM's hands, from what I can tell, so best not to fall into a pattern.  There was another KFM ability (and an Assassin) ability that had Resist on it, so I need to remember what that looks like so I don't stupidly try to CC them out of it (or maybe I find the right CC for the job, if one can get through).

 

Just because the game doesn't have a voiceover that says "The KFM just countered your attack.  Next time, watch for the Counter animation", doesn't mean I cannot figure it out with context clues and some experimentation.  And typically the game shows the word "Counter" when your attacks are countered.  I could have just missed it.  I'll need to play more matches to find out.

 

Losing isn't a big deal.  And learning is most rewarding for me when I figure it out myself.  That's why I haven't looked up PvP builds for FM yet, nor have I done much research into the other classes.  I'm going to collect a bunch of experience first, take another look through my skill tree, and really familiarize myself with my options.  That way, when other situations/levels/etc. present themselves, I'll be able to adapt myself instead of waiting and watching for the next video/build to be released before I can be effective.

 

There's nothing wrong with saying "Whoa, what just happened to me?" after a round/match (I accidentally used those a bit interchangeably, my bad).  Instead of falling back on "this dumb game isn't telling me what I need to know to get better", or "that dumb class is broken because they just beat me badly", I prefer to try to focus on "what can I do the next time I fight that class to better understand what's beating me".  It's just like science.  You think up a hypothesis, you go test it, then after enough data comes back you draw a conclusion.  Then you move on to the next hypothesis.

[Makonia]

4 hours ago, Carthage said:

 

I have played plenty of board games. You just accept that the first couple games are learning experiences.

 

That may sound exactly like this game, but it isn't.

 

When you play board games for the first time, the players announce exactly what they are doing and the game rules that let them do it. You learn what they are doing. Once you know and experience this, you can then try and stop it.

 

It's like having an enemy flash red when they take damage. It tells the player that what they just did works. It's important feedback to the learning process.

 

This game does absolutely none of that. Don't be a stupid shill and say "oh just think critically!". This goes well beyond critical thinking. This is straight up hiding knowledge from the player. You don't know what your opponent is doing. You see "stunned", the game gives you no information on why you were stunned. Perhaps they countered what you did? Perhaps they can do it at a certain range? Perhaps it's just a move that always stuns? Different parts of different moves counter everything you do. You don't know what the properties of their moves do. You don't know the cooldowns on their moves. You don't know what moves they are currently doing.

 

The best part? Lag can ruin the whole thing even further as animations don't sync up to actions.

 

It is HORRIBLE design. Every. Single. Other. Game. Does. It. Better.

 

And then if you want to learn it, you can't learn it without playing it because of the afforementioned reasons. You can barely see the animations of their actions. You have to play it yourself if you want to actually learn what's going on, which requires levelling it up which takes dozens of hours of boring as paint level grinding. 

This game is not good enough to warrant this kind of time investment. 

 

This game is the absolute worst game at giving player feedback I have ever played. It's worse than the *cricket*ing souls series, which is built on this kind of bullshit.

 

 

I see the issue here.....you're used to rolling your face across your keyboard while your character slaughters everything but now that a game requires actual interaction on your part your strategy no longer works. So you make a forum post crying for attention about how this game sucks b/c it doesn't tell you what you need to do when in fact half the battle is the learning experience. We get it this game is clearly not for you but trashing it b/c you can't learn from it, when other MMO's spoon fed you and handed you everything, is just a sad excuse. Invest the time to learn PvP or just stick to PvE and enjoy half the game. If you have a straight learning curve this game's clearly too advanced for you.

When I started this game I wanted to be an assassin b/c I enjoy the playstyle. The Sin is the second hardest class to learn and after playing one I know why vs the easier classes I've fought against. I don't nerd rage every time an opponent slaughters me I research their abilities and how they're able to counter what I'm doing. I watch videos, take notes, etc. The only way to get ahead in this game is to step out of that "smash face on keyboard" mentality and actually THINK about what you're doing and focus. It's martial arts kid you can't just walk into it and be handed a pamphlet on how to be the next Bruce Lee. Invest the time to learn or just walk away it's not really that hard.

[Carthage]

45 minutes ago, phinders said:

that comes from being new though, not from faulty game design...Imagine you just started LoL,  now take that first teamfight you are in.   You will not be able to see what is happening or anything.   This game is very new in NA.  Nobody could be a pro in this time frame unless they played for years on an other client.    Try sparring against a class you have trouble with.  sparr a whole lot until you know what they have, what they will do, also what they expect you to do, so much information isn't going to be mastered in 1 week. 

 

No, the issue is that the game isn't doing anything close to a good job informing the player what they did wrong.

 

You attacked, and it was resisted

You didn't attack, and got put in a stun lock

 

In a game like street fighter, you'd have good visual and auditory feedback on why that happened.

 

It is not the case with this game at all.

 

I've played just about every popular competitive game out there at a reasonably high level. This one is the worst of them. It's a fighting game minus a ton of extremely important fighting game features, such as extreme precision and good visual representation of what's going on. It's not worth the learning curve, especially given there is no in game support for learning how to pvp.

[Bonse]

10 hours ago, Carthage said:

There is no feedback as to what's happening at all ever.

 

"Why did that guy just resist all my spells?"

"Why is he behind me and invisible?"

"Why can't I ever unfreeze?"

 

etc.

 

The game is so bad at telling players about it's PvP mechanics that I refuse to continue, even after getting near max level.

Like any competitive game you need to learn all the abilities of any classes involved. You need to put the work and effort in.

[Nosolee]

13 hours ago, Carthage said:

There is no feedback as to what's happening at all ever.

 

"Why did that guy just resist all my spells?"

"Why is he behind me and invisible?"

"Why can't I ever unfreeze?"

 

etc.

 

The game is so bad at telling players about it's PvP mechanics that I refuse to continue, even after getting near max level.

can I have your stuff?

[Kutsuu]

7 hours ago, Carthage said:

That's the whole point of the thread.

 

You don't KNOW what you did wrong.

 

Did you attack into a counter? Did you break the wrong CC? Was your spacing off? Did you attack into a move that resists damage? Did you miss time cooldowns? The game doesn't tell you shit.

 

It does though, if you are even a little attentive. You can SEE the animations of enemy abilities and you can SEE the repercussions. Sure, it requires putting 2 and 2 together, but surely that isn't too hard to do? For example, I learned very quickly when fighting summoners (my first or second match) that they have a counter which puts them into stealth, and I can tell they are using it because they raise their staff into the air and it glows white. The game didn't have to blink a giant neon sign saying "The Summoner is using his counter! It puts him into stealth if you attack him! Beware!" for me to understand it. 

 

Again, you can see the animations and you can hear the sound effects. It's truly your choice to LEARN from your experience in the arena. Since you made up lame excuses for why you can't use my previous suggestions on how to learn - how about this one: Watch guides for other classes. Yes, find some good guides on youtube for OTHER classes and watch them. You'll learn what their important abilities are, the cooldowns, how they are used in combos, and probably even what they look like in use. Awaiting the next excuse. 

 

 

[Tteunaegi]

At this point it's become a circular discussion. The people who figure it out are fine with it and the people that don't cry out bad design.

 

I really get the feeling that the OP wants characters shouting out their moves like they do in Anime, or how the NPCs do.

 

The NPCs shout what they're doing so you can See the animation of certain abilities. It gives you the visual cue to notice blocks and counters. The more indepth mechanics are for you to figure out.

 

Obviously this game isn't for you and the people who understand won't sympathize with your plight. If you really are giving up, then just let it go and move on.

[Brainy]

No feedback ? Really ? Were you watching the screen while playing ? It seems like you weren't.

 

Summoners raise their staff and wave it around when countering, Assassins move their hands with a dark trail, BMs put their sword in front, KFMs parry with their hands with a glow, etc. Everything is visible.

 

Others explained everything well. Apparently you want to have your screen filled with numbers, charts, cooldown timers and I dunno what else you like seeing, but oh my...

 

This thread went beyond stupid, trying to explain things to someone who doesn't want to understand.