So Whirlwind Valley Cheating Is It?

[KugekiAme]

You will have to excuse this snide comment Cricket. To me, this isn't what you would call cheating. Whirlwind Valley is a team effort, what do you expect people to do when your team does not come in with proper stats? It's kinda stupid that we are cheating apparently, by dropping out of the group before we die needlessly wasting our time on people like bots.This kinda goes for higher end players using programs, sitting at their office, and playing somehow magically at the same time. Must be a bad joke NCsoft, because if nobody aims to let people progress? Is it not cheating to let people into whirlwind valley unprepared, or to not let us make premade groups?

 

"I don't take advantage of leaderboards, I take advantage of people who shouldn't be there without piercing stats, and some critical defence. I'm not a robot, that's why I wouldn't make one do my dirty work. Feel free to judge this comment, or make a meme as you see fit. It's simply boring without opinions, people live at others expenses anyway on this game."

[RiddleDiddle]

I am new to this game, could you explain what this Whirlwind Valley sort of cheat is?

[KugekiAme]

Basically earlier today NCsoft was saying: "People were cheating to maintain their place on the leaderboards within WhirlWind Valley." When in reality, the problem is the under geared players ability to just walk in, and make our job twice as hard. It's kind of a double-edged sword, so they decided. Hey, why not quit the game, and log back in? Which I don't blame them to a degree, people cannot afford to pay for the events of this game twenty-four seven, and seven days a week. By doing this, they maintained their status on the leaderboards by working around NCosft themselves. As well the other players holding them back, but really you should have critical defence. Then go for piercing on your soul shields, but what they're doing is calling those people cheaters. When in reality, they're not cheating, because others cannot progress fast enough.

 

I really think there should be a cap on critical defence, and on piercing before they claim who's cheating. Let alone entering whirlwind valley expecting a carry. People tried to ignore me once when they didn't even have three hundred critical defence. So the whole team was on me, and I would drop due to their inability to stay alive in general. I personally would quit before hand, knowing that my team would only be losing, and I wouldn't be wasting money on them. It just depends on who we are up against.

[RiddleDiddle]

So if i get this right, there is no penalty of quitting the game you're in (which NCSoft says it's cheating) and you do it just because you don't wanna get off the leaderboard, because trolls players join in, so you do that option?

[RiddleDiddle]

5 minutes ago, KugekiAme said:

Pretty much, you got the right idea. My opinion is that under geared players shouldn't be there in the first place.

But.... isn't there a specific AP cap or something on it? i would expect such? or something like ELO?

[KugekiAme]

7 minutes ago, RiddleDiddle said:

So if i get this right, there is no penalty of quitting the game you're in (which NCSoft says it's cheating) and you do it just because you don't wanna get off the leaderboard, because trolls players join in, so you do that option?

 

Pretty much, you got the right idea. My opinion is that under geared players shouldn't be there in the first place.

[KugekiAme]

7 minutes ago, RiddleDiddle said:

But.... isn't there a specific AP cap or something on it? i would expect such? or something like ELO?

 

AP can be around five hundred and fifty. You really just want to get the soul shields from infinity tower, then get some piercing, and even it out with the critical defence. That's mainly where you want to be at. Other people are going to have their galaxy weapon, also more crazy stuff like that. So just come prepared, maybe they won't have one thing like stats, and that offsets the entire thing. Basically, consider this world PVP, and you're just in a dungeon queue for it. You're going to need stats regardless for it, because that's what people will look at before they afk if the whole team doesn't have them.

[Raizou]

1 hour ago, RiddleDiddle said:

But.... isn't there a specific AP cap or something on it? i would expect such? or something like ELO?

Nope, everybody, who is lv 50, can easily join WWV/Belugua, equally which AP they have. And thats the problem here: people, who just hitted lv 50 now join 6vs6 without the specific stats/gear (which KugekiAme mentioned above me), and this is here the most critical issue in 6vs6.

[KugekiAme]

Raizou, stop it.You're going to give him the wrong idea like he can just join without stats. Wink-wink

Raizou, the problem isn't wearing the items. It's not wearing what you never had, to begin with, therefore put a cap on it. Sorry, bad puns here amirite? It's simply because you wouldn't have it to put on, and therefore the stats reflect that.

 

Although, that is the issue really in a nutshell. Not being equipped in general to do the right thing in WWV & Lagoon.

[Raizou]

50 minutes ago, KugekiAme said:

Raizou, stop it.You're going to give him the wrong idea like he can just join without stats. Wink-wink

Raizou, the problem isn't wearing the items. It's not wearing what you never had, to begin with, therefore put a cap on it. Sorry, bad puns here amirite? It's simply because you wouldn't have it to put on, and therefore the stats reflect that.

 

Although, that is the issue really in a nutshell. Not being equipped in general to do the right thing in WWV & Lagoon.

Nooo, you got me wrong :-/ I just told him/her the thing, which creates the the most issues in 6vs6, nothing more. Sorry for misunderstanding >.<

[KugekiAme]

No harm was done this might make sense too. Your comment did help a bit with a few things, most high-level players grief by having the statistics you don't have, or obtain eventually through gearing up. It goes both ways when you just don't equip something because others don't have what it takes.  Then, it doesn't have to be about your team, it can even be the other team they want to win. For example, they have a guildie on the other team, and they're in discord. They talk, they want him to win, because their team is really stupidly low in all their stats. Knowing that, he takes off his armour on one side, then his weapon as well.

 

This implies a bit of arena logic which you mentioned but mixed with the players that shouldn't have to carry others. Then, the one's who just cry willy-nilly for carries through battlegrounds in general. They don't have to grief you, they just are allowed to by not establishing a cap that will persist to keep others out of the queue. 

[KugekiAme]

I think a good solution would be to make a permanent cap that all players seem to revolve around for battlegrounds. Then reinforce that solution, with a backup solution like a persisting kick from the battlegrounds if you do not have the right statistics on at that time. Or, match us up with the people our statistics level in general. It's not about ranking at that point anymore, but can become since there is room to grow.

[Meese]

You lose ranking points now if you DC or leave by your own will and this was done to prevent people who purposefully left high-ranking matches in order to protect their ranking to get higher rewards at the end of the season. This is infact taking advantage of the system because these people were not going up against poorly geared people. They were going against people with similar gear but were disadvantaged by maybe more skilled players or class composition. Back when you were allowed to go in with 6 people, you basically went against whale parties which you barely had a shot in winning the match. Duo queue lessens this and allows more mix and matching of classes and gear level. While I do agree that it sucks that you sometimes get stuck with poorly geared people, abusing the system and advocating for it in order to not lose a match is silly and frankly cowardly. Its a pvp mode for a reason, there are winners and losers. Sometimes you win, sometimes you dont and it can get frustrating. Ive had matches that Ive done really well in personally and enjoyed myself but still lost due to objectives. Was I upset? Sure, Im human. But I didnt think of leaving (even before the DC changes were implemented) because I didnt think it was fair to abandon 5 other people. Back then people in high gold and plat matches literally just would have an entire side just DC with no punishment while the other side just captured spots and sat there and waited for the match to end. Fun game mode to do then right? Leaving a match so you dont lose is for your ego, nothing else.

 

I think that a minimum ap restriction for this mode should be in place, but anything other than that cant be controlled without isolating entire portions of the game's population.

[KugekiAme]

Meese, people are allowed to do this since NCsoft does not want to manage it better, and accuses one over the other. People desire to have competent people on their team, unfortunately, I agree with some of what you said. I feel the higher end players only leave, due to how it does help, but the cost for materials they spend on keeps going up too. Keeping that in mind? It doesn't have to be about a few repair tools, but it depends on the one you want. I mean, feel free to laugh at me, but it all adds up to the right stats on a character. That's mainly the point I want to drive out there, but if they'd match people up against their level of statistics? Who knows, maybe they would all be equal, and go up in ranking faster.

 

I mean, attack power are stats for PVE dungeons.

I mean, people request six hundred attack power for yeti.

I mean, I did Desolate Tomb at five hundred and eighty attack power on my sin.

I believe we beat the boss, so you know what really turns me off?

People who only want an easy run, that's what upsets me overall about this game.

 

I mean, battlegrounds are more getting the stats you don't have

I mean, stats you need are the one's you buy primers for. 

I mean, that infinity tower rng sucks, but you gotta do it.

Well, then when you do it is rewarding, but you gotta have the patience others don't have.

Otherwise, these are simply the results without mechanics, or knowing what you're paired up against. 

 

PVP

 

"Duh, what just happened? I got one shot!"

"I got stunned locked to death."

 

 

PVE 

 

"It's a bit slower depending on the dungeon, then the seriousness of the mechanic you don't complete."

 

 

 

[xxxAoi]

I still don't get it. No offense. What's your point?

 

Allowing pre-made groups will not give lower levels a chance to farm for their PVP gear. TL;DR, it boils down on matchmaking. Sure, people will say that they can start off by farming Naksun/Sparring/Challenger soul shields but people's laziness isn't something NCSoft can fix.

[KugekiAme]

I suppose you call anything lazy, it really can be helped by making a cap on the stats they need to get inside the queue. I think that would contribute to getting the right stats, and at least more people might pull their weight. Not that the will, I never put faith in lazy people that only want to stay with the same rhetoric. 

Well, I am off to bed everyone, and I had a nice time talking with you for now.

[FrozenB]

So, from my understanding, you want NCsoft to implement back the old system in which you don't lose elo rank when you quit during match? Am I correct?

 

Although I do understand your frustration when you have a bot or low AP player as teammates, this idea is really bad because it will cause a big chaos like back in the old days. Like everyone said, some high rank will take advantage to keep their elo rank as high as possible so that they can earn the most profit from the end season reward. Plus, there is no way for NCsoft to catch each of the single exploiters accurately as well. In fact, there were some abusers got away from the punishment as well back in the old days.

 

Setting requirements is useless because AP is meaningless in battleground because as the game proceed, player can get higher and higher AP. Right now, whales can get over 800+ AP easily. In future like in KR, they can get up to 1200+ AP. So, you expect NCsoft to keep changing the AP requirements every few months? Then, the lower AP players (600-700 AP with full cdef) can't join the battleground anymore in the future? For example, if they set the requirement at 1k cdef , it is pretty much nothing against whales. People will still make complaints about the system.

 

If they make an option for players to choose the number of members in their pre-made team, it is unfair for the random single quene players. If they allow pre-made team vs pre-made team only, then there will be massive abuse like 3v3 in F9 where the bots just opens 12 accounts and win-trading non-stop.

 

 

[AtlasR]

i dont get this thread. you are asking for caps on people entering which is basically how dungeons in xserver work but for pvp. i dont see why they just dont item balance 6v6 like they do 1v1 it would solve most of ur problems. everyone would be equally geared so low ap people wont be a issue. you could then reinstate full group ques because even if u group up as 6 the other team still has a chance at winning vs before when 6 850ap whales que up together and other team really doesnt stand a chance.  6man que would also allow you to build ur favourite team comp as opposed to random team comps. 

it would make 6v6 more team oriented/skill based as opposed to now where its a gear check.

 

[Half]

I'm so tired about these posts "people need AP for battlegrounds" ... come on is this real? The easiest way to get a nice soulshield is to play 6v6. After a few games you will earn your first soulshield which is better then all in ToI. I never would farm ToI first since legendary ss are released. Ofc you cannot win with 4 low geared player in your team, while the other team has only 700+ ap pvp geared people. But that's not the fail by these low geared players, it's fail by matchmaking which doesn't put 2 lows on one team and the other 2 lows on the other team.

 

Btw last season I reached over 1700 with my twink. At season start I started with 1500. That means I have to play with 1300 if there're not enough people in queue. And actually it's highly normaly. So even if I don't start at "zero" - means 1300 - I get matched with them, so the whole system with "not falling to zero" makes no sense atm.

 

@AtlasR:

I would hate it and never play battleground again. What battleground needs is no item balance like in 1v1. They need to balance other issues like bad matchmaking or unbalanced skills (disable dmg spells at grabbed enemies [pls in the whole game ^^], ...).

[FrozenB]

51 minutes ago, Half said:

 They need to balance other issues like bad matchmaking or unbalanced skills (disable dmg spells at grabbed enemies [pls in the whole game ^^], ...).

Then, destroyer and bd will be technically useless in dungeon like back in the old day.

 

I would say just remove BM hm z skill and keep the rmb fire blade skill. BM is fine without the hm z pull skill.

3 hours ago, AtlasR said:

i dont get this thread. you are asking for caps on people entering which is basically how dungeons in xserver work but for pvp. i dont see why they just dont item balance 6v6 like they do 1v1 it would solve most of ur problems. everyone would be equally geared so low ap people wont be a issue. you could then reinstate full group ques because even if u group up as 6 the other team still has a chance at winning vs before when 6 850ap whales que up together and other team really doesnt stand a chance.  6man que would also allow you to build ur favourite team comp as opposed to random team comps. 

it would make 6v6 more team oriented/skill based as opposed to now where its a gear check.

 

6man quene will lead to win-trading abuse like in 3v3 no matter it is equal-gear or not.

[Shukran]

there will be a day 6v6 no gear based. or at least a F9 version of it.

 

until that day 6v6 is the most retarded unfun place to develop in a multiplayer game.

[FrozenB]

16 minutes ago, Shukran said:

there will be a day 6v6 no gear based. or at least a F9 version of it.

 

until that day 6v6 is the most retarded unfun place to develop in a multiplayer game.

If you feel that it is not a fun place now, you can stop joining it. You can just go play PVE or PVP in F9.

 

Personally, I found that bg is fun, especially beluga. Even if you got a party wipe by other team, you can still win the game with 3 horns. There were a lot of times that we won the game with the score ~800 vs ~1700, but it requires team effort (in which they don't give up after many deaths.)

[Half]

47 minutes ago, FrozenB said:

Then, destroyer and bd will be technically useless in dungeon like back in the old day.

 

I would say just remove BM hm z skill and keep the rmb fire blade skill. BM is fine without the hm z pull skill.

Then destroyer and bd will need a balance patch. The point is those skills don't need any skill, just pressing one single button and see how mobs are dying. That's not fun, that's boring in pve and in pvp it's very game breaking. A tank with a huge amount of def and cdef will die in seconds. Even dragon tongue is not such dangerous.

[AtlasR]

i like the grab skills it allows you to delete someone from the game. i finds battles especially ones involving summoner can last like 5+mins if everyone is decked out in full pvp gear. grip removes this problem. you can tab escape the grip aswell just got to be more careful when enemy team has a grip class.

 

on the note of the damage the true soul (the max one i forget its name) i would consider more dangerous than a grip even with the grip being shorter cd.

 

[FrozenB]

2 hours ago, Half said:

Then destroyer and bd will need a balance patch. The point is those skills don't need any skill, just pressing one single button and see how mobs are dying. That's not fun, that's boring in pve and in pvp it's very game breaking. A tank with a huge amount of def and cdef will die in seconds. Even dragon tongue is not such dangerous.

Dragon Tongue is not dangerous? You must be joking. The difference between grab skills and dragon tongue is that grab skills require other players or teammates to do the damage whereas dragon tongue you can do huge damage by yourself. You see the difference here? Beside dragon tongue, BM has HM z pull skill as well. Basically, two OP skills that can have huge damage (with combination of fireblade) just by a single player. For grab skills on the other hand, you need 2 or more players beside yourself to do huge damage.