Just laughed a bit

[Ramo]

Read some of this thread. What most kids don't understand is life is Pay to win. Any mmo that's somewhat known, you can go buy a shit ton of gold for from any website. Buying gold is in every single mmo. That's a fact, coin exchange is a good thing. People who buy gold can choose a safer way to do it and support the game. Premium is a joke too, 20 copper for a kill is literally nothing at end game. Shorter windstride cooldown and chi recovery by a couple seconds is also nothing. What else do people think is p2w? I can't even think of anything. So don't bring up the buying gold argument, that will never go away, trust me. And like I said premium is truly a joke. Not even worth it IMO, it's nice, bit not worth it. Also, it's not a race, this is an mmo. New players are just starting out now, it gets easier to make gold with every patch. Gave a level 21 player 2 gold and he was so hyped, he's not complaining about bieng "too far behind". 

[Rief]

7 minutes ago, Vysaek said:

 

I get your point of your P2W concept, being able to reach a certain goal having more gold because you threw 500 bucks away in Ncoin (as an example) its a personal decision and not a requirement. Even if you manage to make more gold than me because of the sub or simply because you can spent more money than i have, eventually i will be able to reach your own status, gear speaking.

 

P2W means literally that if you pay, you will be able to obtain a better weapon through the store or other means not available for a free-user. 

 

I will try to avoid using you and I, it tend to make things personal :D.

 

Kay, again, if there's no patch or if the patch is not in the form of gear level up that require tons of money. "The Free player will eventually catch up" is True. But, look at the current condition. Are they really "catching up ?" when they catched up (or before they catched up), The BiS already changed again due to patch.

 

In this situation, it can be said that  "if you pay, you will be able to obtain a better weapon through the store or other means not available for a free-user. "

 

3 minutes ago, Ramo said:

Read some of this thread. What most kids don't understand is life is Pay to win. Any mmo that's somewhat known, you can go buy a shit ton of gold for from any website. Buying gold is in every single mmo. That's a fact, coin exchange is a good thing. People who buy gold can choose a safer way to do it and support the game. Premium is a joke too, 20 copper for a kill is literally nothing at end game. Shorter windstride cooldown and chi recovery by a couple seconds is also nothing. What else do people think is p2w? I can't even think of anything. So don't bring up the buying gold argument, that will never go away, trust me. And like I said premium is truly a joke. Not even worth it IMO, it's nice, bit not worth it. Also, it's not a race, this is an mmo. New players are just starting out now, it gets easier to make gold with every patch. Gave a level 21 player 2 gold and he was so hyped, he's not complaining about bieng "too far behind". 

 

The 20 copper a kill is indeed a joke.

The 20 (rank 1), 30 (Rank 4), 40 (Rank 7)and 100 (Rank 10) daily sell limit, Is something OP.

[Perberos]

4 hours ago, Justsomeone said:

it's p2w if you need to farm your whole life to reach the paying guy

It is simple as that. You PAY real money for ADVANTAGES. "Pay 2 Win the time you waste farming"
I do not understand how kids can not understand this. Fanaticism?

 

25 minutes ago, Ramo said:

What most kids don't understand is life is Pay to win.

That's not a good analogy, because time can not be shortened magically.
And there is no money from another higher universe. You had to use the money you earn in that "world".

[Selene]

Nothing is p2w, its more like pay to finish faster?

Premium membership ? please, u can have mine, just gimme wardrobe. ..oh wait.

 

[CaelumProject]

For the love of Mushin, another P2W topics again ?
Will this ever end ?

[Can Oa]

the cash shop is ok (i dont use) , currency exchange is ok (i dont use)  , premium is ok (i dont use)  - i dont spend single cent in this game and i do what everyone do , i enjoy like everyone who pay , i dont have any problem in party game for damage or something like that , i like and dominate in open world pvp 70% of time( i dont do arena) and i dont spend single cent in game.

Im still here and do what i want in this game without something from the cache shopp stop me!

Many years i play MMORPG and i never see more balance cash shop NEVER!

If u think its p2w juts leave use and go play other games willl be more friendly here!

[Rief]

3 minutes ago, Can Oa said:

the cash shop is ok (i dont use) , currency exchange is ok (i dont use)  , premium is ok (i dont use)  - i dont spend single cent in this game and i do what everyone do , i enjoy like everyone who pay , i dont have any problem in party game for damage or something like that , i like and dominate in open world pvp 70% of time( i dont do arena) and i dont spend single cent in game.

Im still here and do what i want in this game without something from the cache shopp stop me!

Many years i play MMORPG and i never see more balance cash shop NEVER!

If u think its p2w juts leave use and go play other games willl be more friendly here!

 

 

It's P2W.

 

Why should I leave ? I'm winning. But that because I'm paying. If I don't have premium I would have disliked this game.

 

The premium hold great advantage for people with my playing style. Advantage, as in it give access to things that non premium will never be able to do.

[Can Oa]

4 minutes ago, Rief said:

 

 

It's P2W.

 

Why should I leave ? I'm winning. But that because I'm paying. If I don't have premium I would have disliked this game.

 

The premium hold great advantage for people with my playing style. Advantage, as in it give access to things that non premium will never be able to do.

ok Bye

[Atheyana]

This topic is a joke to be honest. The game isn't Pay to Win and if they didn't add incentives like the Premium has right now then no one would buy it. This means less money for NCSoft which results in slower patch updates. Fashion as decent as it sells isn't enough to keep the game running efficiently. Do research and notice that companies need money to maintain servers, get content implemented in the game even if it only needs to be translated, pay employees, etc. All of you free players are complaining about minuscule details. I would accept that the game is Pay to Win if it ends up with gear, buffs, potions, etc that are severely better than the ingame only stuff and can be used in Arena.

 

Arena is the only real PvP in Blade & Soul which it becomes 99% equalized. Open world PvP is a joke and doesn't mean much to the game to be honest. This stuff has been a problem ever since the World of Warcraft days when MMOs started becoming Free to Play. 

 

There aren't many MMOs if any that ensure 100% equal footing for free players and paying players because then no one would spend real money on said MMO. No revenue for the company means the game gets shut down. This is the part people forget. Maybe MMOs should go back to being Pay to Play so everyone has the same playing field and revenue for the company exists. Free to Play MMOs aren't a charity.

[Rief]

11 minutes ago, Atheyana said:

There aren't many MMOs if any that ensure 100% equal footing for free players and paying players because then no one would spend real money on said MMO. No revenue for the company means the game gets shut down. This is the part people forget.

 

True. There aren't many MMORPG that allowed In game money to be used for premium or subscription. Wild Star and Archeage is the one most recent MMORPG to implement this system. And of course there's the one that started it, Eve Online.

 

They get the revenue from people buying the sub/premium which then can be sold to other players. Similar to current system where player pay gold to be gifted by premium. But they implemented it in game. Make premium purchasable by hongmoon coin, then it will be on equal footing.

[Tigersight]

Since there are so many people who don't understand the difference between Pay to win, and pay for convenience, here's an example:

 

In Wartune, there's a cash shop with these items in it:

 

These items are only available from the cash shop and give significant advantages in combat. I quit the game about half way to the level cap because despite min/maxing the living sh*t out of my character, I simply could not compete with the players who bought these items with real money.

 

Now here's an example of paying for convenience (from Warframe):

 

Here, you can pay real money to speed up crafting times of items. You'll get it if you wait, but you can pay if you really want it right now.

 

 

That's the difference. P2W means you are completely, statistically advantaged over other players and they have no way to make up the gap without spending real money.

[Dray0s]

29 minutes ago, Rief said:

 

True. There aren't many MMORPG that allowed In game money to be used for premium or subscription. Wild Star and Archeage is the one most recent MMORPG to implement this system. And of course there's the one that started it, Eve Online.

 

They get the revenue from people buying the sub/premium which then can be sold to other players. Similar to current system where player pay gold to be gifted by premium. But they implemented it in game. Make premium purchasable by hongmoon coin, then it will be on equal footing.

 

99% of the games that do, allow players to physically sell the subscription to players, which is a Direct Cash to Gold Exchange currency system, which in ur eyes u've deemed P2W, therefore no, again its Still Every game on the market is "p2w" to some peoples opinon.

[Rief]

11 minutes ago, Dray0s said:

 

99% of the games that do, allow players to physically sell the subscription to players, which is a Direct Cash to Gold Exchange currency system, which in ur eyes u've deemed P2W, therefore no, again its Still Every game on the market is "p2w" to some peoples opinon.

 Whoa.. re read my comment. In no part did I say Direct Cash to Currency exchange is P2W. I consider BNS P2W, because those that pay can get things that no free player can get. And yeah that included Best in Stat Equip, because of the speed of the patch.

 

I consider currency exchange as P2W because it changed to hongmoon coin, which cannot be used to buy premium. If Hongmoon coin can be used to buy premium, it would have been a more equal ground.

[AttacKat]

7 hours ago, Rief said:

Until Premium membership available in hongmoon store, a non paying player can never obtain it in secure way, it's P2W.

 

I consider currency exchange as P2W because it changed to hongmoon coin, which cannot be used to buy premium. If Hongmoon coin can be used to buy premium, it would have been a more equal ground.

 

Dude, do you know how to use the market/cash shop? 

 

Player A: Lacks time, buys NCoin -> Premium

Player B: Has time, makes tons of gold in game -> trades gold with NCoin player, asking NCoin player to gift Premium in return.

 

Both players has access to the same items, expect player B never spent a dime, but more time.

[Rief]

3 minutes ago, AttacKat said:

 

Dude, do you know how to use the market/cash shop? 

 

Player A: Lacks time, buys NCoin -> Premium

Player B: Has time, makes tons of gold in game -> trades gold with NCoin player, asking NCoin player to gift Premium in return.

 

Both players has access to the same items, expect player B never spent a dime, but more time.

 

Re read "in secure way" 

 

If it's something that really supported by NCSoft, they would have made it possible to be bought using hongmoon coin. Instead they go "it's risky and we are not responsible for any scam". 

 

Both players have access to the same items, but that access is not something supported by NCSoft. It's going behind the system.

 

Tell me, If hongmoon coin can be used to buy premium, will it make free players stand in more equal ground ? 

 

 

[AttacKat]

46 minutes ago, Rief said:

I consider currency exchange as P2W because it changed to hongmoon coin, which cannot be used to buy premium. If Hongmoon coin can be used to buy premium, it would have been a more equal ground.

 

So you basically asking NCS NA to take away their ONLY sure method of making any income, yet, expect them to provide you a F2P game?? Can you give me all of your income?

 

Besides, how is Premium access even P2W? What item do you get from it that F2P players cannot obtain in game for free that gives you combat advantage when you PvP against another player?

 

EDIT: BTW, it is supported by NCS, it is a gift-able item for a reason. Your issue is finding trusting players to do this with.

[Rief]

4 minutes ago, AttacKat said:

 

So you basically asking NCS NA to take away their ONLY sure method of making any income, yet, expect them to provide you a F2P game?? Can you give me all of your income?

 

Besides, how is Premium access even P2W? What item do you get from it that F2P players cannot obtain in game for free that gives you combat advantage when you PvP against another player?

 

The hongmoon coin come from Ncoin, right ? There's no other source of Ncoin except from NCsoft. It's not like player can buy premium from NPC using gold. It's a system that have been implented by Wildstar, Archeage and before them Eve online.

 

I'm sorry. I'm truly sorry, but this discussion onthe items have been done for 3 pages, against 2 or 3 people, if you're interested, you probably might want to simply scroll up.

 

 

[AttacKat]

14 minutes ago, Rief said:

 

The hongmoon coin come from Ncoin, right ? There's no other source of Ncoin except from NCsoft. It's not like player can buy premium from NPC using gold. It's a system that have been implented by Wildstar, Archeage and before them Eve online.

 

I'm sorry. I'm truly sorry, but this discussion onthe items have been done for 3 pages, against 2 or 3 people, if you're interested, you probably might want to simply scroll up.

 

You didn't answer my question --> what features offered by Premium access makes it P2W ? Besides, other then Premium access, which offers nothing on P2W, what other item that you cannot obtain in game and can only in cash shop that makes the game a P2W?

 

Seriously, you have derailed the OP so much, you do not even know what you are talking about anymore. OP is related to upgrading Legendary weapon, which would require items that will not be available in game until L50 content, hence for NCS NA to release the weapon now, will require the those items in the cash shop, which then will make this game a P2W game.

 

Please, stay focus and do not go off on your own. ;p

[Rief]

51 minutes ago, AttacKat said:

 

You didn't answer my question --> what features offered by Premium access makes it P2W ? Besides, other then Premium access, which offers nothing on P2W, what other item that you cannot obtain in game and can only in cash shop that makes the game a P2W?

 

Seriously, you have derailed the OP so much, you do not even know what you are talking about anymore. OP is related to upgrading Legendary weapon, which would require items that will not be available in game until L50 content, hence for NCS NA to release the weapon now, will require the those items in the cash shop, which then will make this game a P2W game.

 

Please, stay focus and do not go off on your own. ;p

 

Very well, I'll try answering this again, as clearly as possible.

 

P2W is when items only available for those that willing to pay, and not available for free players.

 

Look at the current situation, the way this game is set up, to obtain True Pirate (which is BiS at the moment) require massive amount of resource (read:gold). I seriously doubt any free players can obtain it before new equip come out. If they got it after new equip come out, it doesn't count. Since whales probably got the new equip 2-3 days after release. Which mean the promise of getting equal item is just carrot dangling in front of a donkey.

 

Premium can get gold way easier, but this are closed to free player. The only way they can get it, if they go behind what was supported by NCSoft.

[Perberos]

2 hours ago, Tigersight said:

Now here's an example of paying for convenience (from Warframe):

 

Here, you can pay real money to speed up crafting times of items. You'll get it if you wait, but you can pay if you really want it right now.

 

 

That's the difference. P2W means you are completely, statistically advantaged over other players and they have no way to make up the gap without spending real money.

 

That is not convenience, that is speed up build with real money, because you can't buy platinum with in-game money. AKA P2W.

Convenience is buy a warframe slot, or a weapon slot.

[PvPMS]

19 hours ago, Main said:

 

you sir are dumb as *cricket*.

I think you are referring to yourself for interpreting pay to win too literally. Pay to win in games doesn't necessarily mean you will get things that other people have, but you will be able to obtain things much easier and faster, way more so than in other mmos. For instance, many people I know are contemplating whether they should just use bots or trade money to people in game to get the gold they want because making it in game is a pain in the ass