How to fix open world PvP

[Callback]

Let me just start by saying, arena is great.  Balanced PVP in this game is a fun, exciting challenge.  Open world is a mess that needs to end.  It's zerged to all hell by one side on all channels, and all of them are assholes.  You try explaining that you just want to do dailys in peace, and if it were just 1 or 2 of them you could probably reason with them.  But it's not.  It's a swarm of 20 lv45s in Cinderlands areas, and one of them will ALWAYS spawn camp you even if one is willing to revive to leave you alone.

 

We need changes.  If people want to be cancer, they should be treated like cancer.  Several systems should accomplish this.

 

1:  No durability loss on PVP kills.  Repair tools are expensive/slow to farm.  PVP, especially being stuck on the receiving end of douchebag behavior, should not break our wallets.  Let PVP deaths be penalty-free.  Respawn and refight as much as you want.

 

2: Level sync in open areas.  Arena PVP is balanced by a stat sync.  Open world in faction battlegrounds should do the same. (other open world can be left open)  Sync stats to the expected level for the area to keep player encounters fair (enough of the 45s all over the place.  45 should not be required to do your level 2x faction quests).  It also makes the quests more fun, since you have to deal with proper leveled stats when fighting the required NPCs.

 

And the weird part, only needed if nothing else is done about the imbalance:

 

3: Karma system.  

 

Players who are not fighting players or are engaging in fair fights are marked as innocents.  To count as a fair fight, both players must land a number of blows.  Splash damage when fighting NPCs should not count as heavily towards this flag to avoid fishing for them as an excuse to kill.  Attacking a player engaged in a fair fight that you are not involved in earns bad karma to discourage ganking.  To be involved in a fight, that player must attack you, and that player and their allies combined must do enough damage that would count you into the fight.

 

Killing an innocent player, or executing a downed opponent marks you as hostile, granting a bonus to opposing players who kill you, and increasing the penalty for dying.  Participating in a kill of an innocent does not mark anyone but the killer as immediately hostile, but all contributors gain a chunk of bad karma.  Hostile players may be safely executed without penalty by a player who they have attacked.  Attacking a hostile player who hits you at all for any reason is considered self defense and is not penalized.   Initiating against a hostile player has no immediate penalty, but if they do not fight at all, you risk becoming hostile yourself by continuing to hit them, and executing them afterwards carries the same penalty as executing an innocent.

 

If a hostile player continues attacking innocents, they will eventually be marked as rogue.  Rogue players dishonor their factions, and may be hunted down even by their own side.  Killing a rogue grants a massive prestige bonus, while the rogue loses a massive amount.  There is no penalty for hunting and executing a rogue, whether they resist or not.  When killed, a rogue player is forced to remove their PVP armor, and locked out from reequipping it for 1 hour.

 

Bad karma is reduced when dying as a hostile, and when completing faction quests, step by step until you eventually become innocent again.  Innocents who die 3 times in a row are granted divine protection, marking them as neutral to opposing players so that they can complete their dailys in peace.  Divine protection lasts until you leave the faction area, or until you damage a hostile by more than 33%.

 

Sample breakdown of the system:  0-9=innocent, 10-39 = hostile, 40-50 = rogue.  (capped at 50)

-10: Turn in a faction daily

-10: Killing a rogue.

Reset to 39: Death while rogue (also incurs penalty as listed above)

-7: Death while above 10. (Applies after "near death" status ends for any reason.)

-5: Killing a hostile. (only one who attacked you)

-2: "Fair fight": Losing 20% of your health in a single instance of combat to enemy players.  Any player who dealt damage to you or to an ally who already shares a "fair fight" opponent with you in this case is considered a fair opponent.

+3: Interrupting a fair fight (having a damage contribution to a fair fight you were not involved in when a player in it dies)

+5: Ganking an innocent (participating in a kill vs an innocent, outside of a fair fight)

+5: Vigilante brutality (dealing more than 66% to a hostile who has not fought back)

+5: Judge jury and executioner (executing a hostile who has not attacked you)

+5: Instigator (Dealing more than 50% hp damage to an innocent without them fighting back, or 20% if you are already hostile.)

+5: Killing an innocent ( adds to the +5 above for +10 total)

+10: Executing an innocent (only +5 if you were the one who killed them.)

 

 

 

These systems should ease the stress of being an honorable player in PVP areas, and force people who want to be assholes to suffer the consequences of their actions.

[Droppinsanity]

cause yeah.....the world is fair.

Fair fight system? are you serious? get some more ppl to do those dailys with you if you are having such a problem.

 

Karma system and bein able to be attacked by your own side..thats just ridiculous, and obviously you seem to be holding some sort of grudge against anyone that is a higher level than yourself.

 

One of the perks to getting to level 45 is to be able to rush thru those dailys as fast as possible. What your asking is just killing one of the small perks by having everyone the same level in an area.

 

Dying has ALWAYS brought some sort of penalty in EVERY game, if you die here, it shouldnt be any different.

 

What you are also suggesting will put basically every assassin in a constant state of being hostile to their own faction.

Any assassin worth anything will kill the person before being hit him/herself.

 

People who are constantly crying about how OWPVP isnt fair or balanced just need to figure out a way around their problems with it, instead of trying to change the game to fit their own wants.

Making a game easy is a good way to KILL the game.

If any idea like this would be implemented, i know more ppl who would quit, then who would be happy.

 

All I see in your post is someone whining.

 

 

[Tanabe]

Hard to tell how you could fix open world pvp.

First of remove arenas, if you wanna kill players go out and hunt em down.

Make it so we can change the skin on faction gear, this game have some good armor looks but we cant pvp in em :(

Remove HP gain from leveling, all player start and end on same HP only way to get more is from foods or better soul shield, and not as much HP on soul shields as there is now, a new level 45 have 20k less HP then someone that have the best soul shield atm 20K thats alot. I know this will mean PvE have to be remade aswell, but wth pve is shit anyways.

Less Channels to move around in, and add more mobs for quests or fastere respawn depending on players in the channel.

More open world group quests in a larger faction areas, in each zone.

Better rewards for open world killing, xp or other, low level or high dont matter your red your a target.

Idk just spit out ideas :)

[Cogbyrn]

I really don't think complex karma systems or level syncing is needed.  For starters, I think they need to fix some basic things:

 

*  Population Algorithm.  I don't know if this is fully to blame, but something isn't adding up, and Misty Woods is paying the iron price for it.  Maybe it is bots, maybe it is inactives/alts, maybe it is a different in population at various level thresholds.  Whatever it is, faction population balance is off at 45, at least on Poharan, and it has the audacity to call itself "even".  I honestly can't think of a good system that wouldn't most likely be abused by other players who want to get their farm on, but this is less of an issue if some other items are addressed.

 

* Undermanned Buff.  I like the idea of something like this, where if you have much lower representation in a channel, you get a buff to make yourself stronger, giving you at least some of the potential to fight back.  With a smattering of CC that would drop on you in an instant it would have to be significant, but it can always scale with the disparity as well.  Either way, it should promote fighting in some way, not hiding on top of the tower waiting for the open channel call-out in faction chat.

 

* Channel Representation Cap.  There's no reason why one faction should be able to command the entire population of a channel.  Either there needs to be an even ceiling, such as 50 of each faction, or there needs to be a relative ceiling based on how many people of the opposing faction are currently repping with the uniform.  A relative ceiling probably wouldn't work because it would most likely be gamed spitefully, somehow, by the undermanned faction, but if at least you have openings to fill up alongside the other faction, you can pop in and start a fight.  I'm sure this would get uproar because then you can't get your ez Blackwyrm farm machine churning, but if that's all faction-based combat is about, then remove the factions and just make them world bosses for the world to kill.

 

The big downside to the above is that the overmanned faction could probably foot a resistance in any channel the undermanned faction tries to farm, while farming their own channels freely since the undermanned faction can't do the same.  Maybe make it so world bosses only spawn when enough of both factions are present?  Though that would probably be gamed too.  People :(.

 

*  Uniform Delay when Putting On.  Your character should broadcast that he/she is putting on a particular faction's uniform, and it should take a few seconds, so you can't do silly white-to-red ganks easily.  I don't think this one is a huge deal, but it's annoying, and there's a delay to remove it.  Why not just add a delay to put it on as well.  And lock the player into the decision, so they don't troll "I'm putting it oooon!" while stopping at the last second.

 

They would also do well with actually adding PvP-based objectives, but the world doesn't seem designed around capture-able locations for benefit.  Battlegrounds are probably going to be where you get mid-sized objective-based PvP, so for the open world, they really just need to do a better job of making it so the undermanned faction can organize a fighting chance.  Then they'll actually fight.

 

At least, I will.

[Takoyaki]

How to fix OW PVP? Just make the faction quest rewards obtainable through pve means. Then even less people go OWPVP except the people who really want to do OWPVP. Then they realize there's nobody to kill and they have to balance things out on their own. These days a lot of people are just annoyed since they want to farm PVP rewards only to get ganked by half the server.

[Tanabe]

Add that all faction npc 1 shot players not in a faction armor set if they attack em. so no more save when attacking other factions npcs.

 

[DeKus]

The system assumes the faction are even numbered... and people tend to be join the winning team, so active PvP players are probably even actively moving towards the winning team making the system even more broken... the "elite" moves towards the winning team, the "noobs" who couldn't join the winning team, are now standing before a well equipped zerg and either come to the board to QQ or simply drop PvP interest at all (again increasing the PvP dominance of active PvP players)... it's a vicious circle.

 

I think a karma system would not help here, you'd need to encourage people to join the losing team by increasing the rewards of the actually (not just by total server characters, but by actual characters wearing PvP armour in an area or so) underpopulated team.

 

Honestly, I don't have an idea right up that I am sure that wouldn't be abuseable like elite groups/guilds would drive off their own faction, to increase their rewards, because they can kill 3 times the enemies with their numbers (i. e. killing 50 people with just 3 groups). Buffing a "losing on purpose" is also not the solution... so I am not sure which "hard numbers" the server should decide on to buff the overwealmed team. In some games the buffing kicks in, when the enemy has claimed a certain amount of "conquerable objectives". But this game has no objectives, besides from getting the kill credit on the blackwyrm, if I understand the endgame correctly (sorry for being interested in that topic without being even level 45).

[Macabre123]

Simply no to this i cant believe that ppl are still crying over OWpvp once u wear ur factions uniform it turns in a kill or get killed situation immediately so u should be prepared to get killed by 1 10 or 100 players why should i get punished if u werent able to land a single blow on me

[SosukeRyugamine]

Just Stop, this is ridiculous. Solutions to your problems are to do the following 

 

1. Level up before you do faction dailies. Reach level 45. Leveling to 45 doesn't take long. 

2.  If you know you're on the losing side just switch. Not like either factions side of outfits are all that grand to begin with.

 

[Daeaera]

I'd say give this a bit of time. For the people who really just want to open world PvP for the fights like me, the super stacked side will eventually get bored with having all the "pros" on one side and switch to give themselves a challenge and fight the easymoding PvE heroes of the faction. I'm currently on the butt end of blue dominating red in the Mushin server. The blues there kinda remind me of the little cappys in ARK: Survival Evolved where usually they'll leave you well and good enough alone when they're by themselves but as soon as they have a buddy or two to help, they unleash themselves like the pack animals they are, no matter if you're trying to tell them you're just trying to get by to do your daily and mean no harm. Thankfully I practiced in arena beforehand as most of the ppl who love ganking in groups most of the time are usually easier kills and I'm having some success fending off smaller groups of gankers by myself! My mentality is "More blues for me to kill! Have fun spamming region chat begging for trade kills while mine are served on a blue and white platter" :)

[Cogbyrn]

3 hours ago, SosukeRyugamine said:

Just Stop, this is ridiculous. Solutions to your problems are to do the following 

 

1. Level up before you do faction dailies. Reach level 45. Leveling to 45 doesn't take long. 

2.  If you know you're on the losing side just switch. Not like either factions side of outfits are all that grand to begin with.

 

 

Lol.  "Just switch" mentality is what ruins OWPvP.  This is a thread on how to fix it.

 

And you're the one telling others to "just stop".  I'm can't evening really hard right now.

[LagunaL8]

how bout just letting them (the killer) drop an item if you kill pple 5+ lvs below you

every kill racks up a % and youll have vultures around you.

[Income]

On ‎2‎/‎2‎/‎2016 at 3:34 PM, Droppinsanity said:

cause yeah.....the world is fair.

Fair fight system? are you serious? get some more ppl to do those dailys with you if you are having such a problem.

 

Karma system and bein able to be attacked by your own side..thats just ridiculous, and obviously you seem to be holding some sort of grudge against anyone that is a higher level than yourself.

 

One of the perks to getting to level 45 is to be able to rush thru those dailys as fast as possible. What your asking is just killing one of the small perks by having everyone the same level in an area.

 

Dying has ALWAYS brought some sort of penalty in EVERY game, if you die here, it shouldnt be any different.

 

What you are also suggesting will put basically every assassin in a constant state of being hostile to their own faction.

Any assassin worth anything will kill the person before being hit him/herself.

 

People who are constantly crying about how OWPVP isnt fair or balanced just need to figure out a way around their problems with it, instead of trying to change the game to fit their own wants.

Making a game easy is a good way to KILL the game.

If any idea like this would be implemented, i know more ppl who would quit, then who would be happy.

 

All I see in your post is someone whining.

 

 

Couldn't agree more.