If you're not a Premium user you don't get currency drop from mobs

[Enhance]

8 minutes ago, Viki93 said:

Guys i want to know if u have to be premium to be able to sell items in the market place because it says that i can only sell through a dragon express NPC

No, you just need to go to the Vault/Marketplace/Mail NPC to sell things. Premiums do too.

[Zherot]

4 hours ago, Shoshin said:

I love how after all of these years there are so many people who don't know the difference between Pay to Win and Pay to Progress Faster.

 

Let me break it down real simple-like for you:

 

Pay-to-win --- The ability to purchase items that give you a stat or equipment advantage over other players with real money that cannot be obtained for free  and/or the ability to purchase upgrade materials for items that do not have a cap. For instance -- If gems could be upgraded and they did not have a limit to how far they could be upgradable and the materials to upgrade them were purchasable from the cash shop, this would be P2W. 

 

Pay-to-progress-faster -- The ability to purchase items in order to advance your character quicker in a game either by increased exp, gold, upgrade materials, etc when there is a limit to how far you can go. For instance, in a game where you could purchase a gem at level 5 (max) but other players had to level it up to 5, this would not be P2W because regular players would be fully capable of hitting the cap over time for free. 

 

The main thing you have to remember to ask yourself is "Can I get that as a free player, even if it takes me longer?" If the answer is yes, then it is not Pay 2 Win. Now... Please tell me one thing in this game that is obtainable as a premium player or from the cash shop that would make me stronger that a normal/free player cannot obtain on their own through time. That's right... You can't. 

 

Im still amazed after all this years some people still try to delude others in what p2w means and try to us the "pay to progress" or other similar BS, p2w is p2w, ANY advantage you can get from paying is in FACT p2w, now deal with it moron.

[WarBaby2]

3 minutes ago, Zherot said:

 

Im still amazed after all this years some people still try to delude others in what p2w means and try to us the "pay to progress" or other similar BS, p2w is p2w, ANY advantage you can get from paying is in FACT p2w, now deal with it moron.

It is sneaky, though... non of the (payed or otherwise) reviewers picked up on that fact, it seams.

[Enhance]

3 minutes ago, Zherot said:

 

Im still amazed after all this years some people still try to delude others in what p2w means and try to us the "pay to progress" or other similar BS, p2w is p2w, ANY advantage you can get from paying is in FACT p2w, now deal with it moron.

Still, you can't say the whole "game" is p2w. If you define "p2w" as gaining any game advantage over non-paying player, sure, the pve in this game is p2w. Balanced, but p2w. It says right on the premium page that you get game advantages for premium.

Arena, however, isn't.

 

So, what are we arguing about again? And who exactly has to deal with what?

[WarBaby2]

1 minute ago, Enhance said:

Still, you can't say the whole "game" is p2w. If you define "p2w" as gaining any game advantage over non-paying player, sure, the pve in this game is p2w. Balanced, but p2w. It says right on the premium page that you get game advantages for premium.

Arena, however, isn't.

 

So, what are we arguing about again? And who exactly has to deal with what?

It might not be such a big deal in general, but combined with all the other minor things premium members have over free players, it's starting to add up. I really hope that a couple of 1000 premiums are enough for NC to keep the game going, because the free players will fall behind more and more because of stuff like that, and it might turn off a large number of them.

 

You don't hide complete game features behind a paywall, not even SWTOR does that... restricted money drops from mobs? Sure, that could work, but none? Nope.

[GnatB]

Just to pipe in, (because I can)

P2W in a PvP setting means buying stuff that gives you a statistical/equipment advantage, so payers typically always beat non-payers.

P2W in a PvE setting, since everybody typically "wins" eventually, means stuff that that allows you to "win" faster.

 

So, if you're looking at this as a PvP game, it isn't P2W.  If you're looking at it as a PvE game, it is.

 

(Disclaimer:  The origin of the term is PvP, so very strictly speaking, the PvP definition is the "original" definition.  But words evolve and take on new/additional meanings.  Any PvP definition purists can take a hike.)

[Enhance]

4 minutes ago, WarBaby2 said:

You don't hide complete game features behind a paywall, not even SWTOR does that... restricted money drops from mobs? Sure, that could work, but none? Nope.

I have said it several times in this thread, but I am still dumbfounded on why in blazes the "money drops from mobs" is even remotely an issue.

 

I'll say this again: money drops from mobs contribute a really really really small fraction of what the gold difference between prem and non-prem is. Would you seriously be happier getting 1-2 copper per mob when a premium member gets 3 gold (that's 30,000 copper!) more than you from daily quests alone, not to mention weapon evolution and breakthrough fees/faster crafting levels?

 

P.S. Dungeon mobs usually don't drop any gold at all, except the bigger ones from the pack dropping 5-6c it seems (all level 45)

 

 

My offer still stands to farm for 30 minutes with all of my effort in any designated location to see how much silver I'll make.

[WarBaby2]

Just now, Enhance said:

I have said it several times in this thread, but I am still dumbfounded on why in blazes the "money drops from mobs" is even remotely an issue.

 

I'll say this again: money drops from mobs contribute a really really really small fraction of what the gold difference between prem and non-prem is. Would you seriously be happier getting 1-2 copper per mob when a premium member gets 3 gold (that's 30,000 copper!) more than you from daily quests alone, not to mention weapon evolution and breakthrough fees/faster crafting levels?

I can't comment on the numbers (since I'm not a premium member), but if the money drops are level appropriate (up to 1 silver at 45 for bosses), they could help alleviate some of the crazier prizes of ESSENTIAL items in the game... if free players would get half of that, it still would be good enough.

 

As I said, "good" f2p is about taking longer to get stuff, not being barred from options subscribers have, and BnS has several examples of that...

[Silmaria]

You guys are an idiot from the ways you talk thrash about F2P players and demeaning them. REMEMBER, this is a PVP games. I remember these stupid people talk about Age of Wushu (Age of BULLSHIT) for not P2W and drove lots of free players away, Guess what? The game population jump down a big number that they need to merge servers and players have to endure low population for a while.

 

Seriously, without lots of players (F2P players), in a PvP, it gets less fun. Idiot who don't see the big pictures, lots of events also require players, try playing on low pop servers, then learn the fact that you really need F2P players.

[WarBaby2]

2 minutes ago, Silmaria said:

You guys are an idiot from the ways you talk thrash about F2P players and demeaning them. REMEMBER, this is a PVP games. I remember these stupid people talk about Age of Wushu (Age of BULLSHIT) for not P2W and drove lots of free players away, Guess what? The game population jump down a big number that they need to merge servers and players have to endure low population for a while.

 

Seriously, without lots of players (F2P players), in a PvP, it gets less fun. Idiot who don't see the big pictures, lots of events also require players, try playing on low pop servers, then learn the fact that you really need F2P players.

Thank you! In this market, you don't treat your f2p crowd badly if you don't want your game to die of under population - that goes duble for PVP focused games... sure, right now BnS is the new, hot sh*t, but for how long?

[Enhance]

22 minutes ago, WarBaby2 said:

I can't comment on the numbers (since I'm not a premium member), but if the money drops are level appropriate (up to 1 silver at 45 for bosses), they could help alleviate some of the crazier prizes of ESSENTIAL items in the game... if free players would get half of that, it still would be good enough.

 

As I said, "good" f2p is about taking longer to get stuff, not being barred from options subscribers have, and BnS has several examples of that...

The copper you get from mobs is seriously low. Seriously. Low. This is a point I've made a lot, and it doesn't even scale well.

Most of the gold you get when you're leveling up, be it premium or not premium, comes from completing blue/yellow quests. Premium has that number boosted.

 

3 minutes ago, WarBaby2 said:

Thank you! In this market, you don't treat your f2p crowd badly if you don't want your game to die of under population - that goes duble for PVP focused games... sure, right now BnS is the new, hot sh*t, but for how long?

Aside from certain "blessed" individuals, no one thinks f2p players are worthless. It's a fine balance between making paid advantages worth the money and not making f2p players discouraged by it that should drive the premium.

[WarBaby2]

9 minutes ago, Enhance said:

The copper you get from mobs is seriously low. Seriously. Low. This is a point I've made a lot, and it doesn't even scale well.

Most of the gold you get when you're leveling up, be it premium or not premium, comes from completing blue/yellow quests. Premium has that number boosted.

 

Aside from certain "blessed" individuals, no one thinks f2p players are worthless. It's a fine balance between making paid advantages worth the money and not making f2p players discouraged by it that should drive the premium.

Agreed, but right now, some of that balancing is seriously off in places... granted, you don't notice it in the beginning, with all the surveys and daily dash, etc. but the restrictions start to pile up.

[Enhance]

2 minutes ago, WarBaby2 said:

Agreed, but right now, some of that balancing is seriously off in places... granted, you don't notice it in the beginning, with all the surveys and daily dash, etc. but the restrictions start to pile up.

I'm not saying they aren't, I do think that some things as premium are pretty weightful; It's not too bad though, and I'm just saying that "mob copper drop" is the wrong point to focus on. If you remove copper drops from mobs completely, or add half of them to F2P players, nothing will change. The "piling up" will be unaffected, or way, way less affected than by other premium perks like reduced costs and marketplace advantages.

 

I do not for a second believe that adding  even an equal or double copper drop for f2p players will solve anything at all.

[WarBaby2]

1 minute ago, Enhance said:

I'm not saying they aren't, I do think that some things as premium are pretty weightful; It's not too bad though, and I'm just saying that "mob copper drop" is the wrong point to focus on. If you remove copper drops from mobs completely, or add half of them to F2P players, nothing will change. The "piling up" will be unaffected, or way, way less affected than by other premium perks like reduced costs and marketplace advantages.

 

I do not for a second believe that adding  even an equal or double copper drop for f2p players will solve anything at all.

Agreed, but it's also about how players "feel" in those games, and all the premium perks will start to weigh in on that in the long run - all I'm saying. The money drop is just a minor thing, but it's not the only one... you know?

[Enhance]

Just now, WarBaby2 said:

Agreed, but it's also about how players "feel" in those games, and all the premium perks will start to weigh in on that in the long run - all I'm saying. The money drop is just a minor thing, but it's not the only one... you know?

It is. I wouldn't mind it if there were threads that explained how and why the premium perks would end up bad or good or balanced, but I don't see a single one devoted to the most obvious gold advantages of premium: quest bonus and evolution/breakthrough costs, or crafting experience gain. I just see people angry that they don't get 1 copper from a plog while premium does.

I agree premium perks are strong, but that copper drop is probably second most useless after the icon on the nameplate. It's simply the wrong thing to pick on, in my opinion. I don't even know why that silly drop exists.

[Furholden]

Someone enlighten me how a premium user would have an advantage over others in PvP? Isnt it balanced gear no matter the player and a test of the player's skill? I havent done a lot of pvp...

 

But if we're talking about pve, doesn't everyone win? The fact that you're running dungeons with premium players means they're carrying you to a certain degree. And even if you lose bids, you gain big amounts of golds which contributes to your next bids so isn't that added revenue for f2p players as well? Now i'm confused what's the fuss about... My gf is f2p while i'm a master pack owner and she hit 45 way early on Hong Server, and she literally outbids most premium players.

 

Or maybe she just has decent skill.

[Silmaria]

10 minutes ago, WarBaby2 said:

Agreed, but it's also about how players "feel" in those games, and all the premium perks will start to weigh in on that in the long run - all I'm saying. The money drop is just a minor thing, but it's not the only one... you know?

Exactly, it is the feeling of the players. Remember, this game introduce the "BIDDING" system in and then you have advantage of premium players get currency from mobs and it does add up a little. This makes it feel like only the "RICH" can manage to get enough in the dungeon.

 

It is the "feeling" from these that can kill enjoyment from playing the game. Not to mention you are also doing it for yourself to make it more balance between free and paid players, you won't be paying forever you know. I like to have on and off paying, like when Tree of Savior out, I know I will invest in that game a little time.

[Enhance]

4 minutes ago, Silmaria said:

Exactly, it is the feeling of the players. Remember, this game introduce the "BIDDING" system in and then you have advantage of premium players get currency from mobs and it does add up a little. This makes it feel like only the "RICH" can manage to get enough in the dungeon.

 

It is the "feeling" from these that can kill enjoyment from playing the game. Not to mention you are also doing it for yourself to make it more balance between free and paid players, you won't be paying forever you know. I like to have on and off paying, like when Tree of Savior out, I know I will invest in that game a little time.

Those "feelings" are often not the most rational. You feel like you're not getting gold from mobs and that's where you're scammed, while in fact the big money deal is going on somewhere else. You "feel" like you lost an auction bid in dungeon because you didn't have enough money, and leave feeling defeated, disregarding the money that you got. 

 

It doesn't take much to sort things out, however, and not get swayed by "feels". I suppose it depends on the person.

[WarBaby2]

1 minute ago, Enhance said:

Those "feelings" are often not the most rational. You feel like you're not getting gold from mobs and that's where you're scammed, while in fact the big money deal is going on somewhere else. You "feel" like you lost an auction bid in dungeon because you didn't have enough money, and leave feeling defeated, disregarding the money that you got. 

 

It doesn't take much to sort things out, however, and not get swayed by "feels". I suppose it depends on the person.

You taken a look at the current generation of gamers? Feelz are horribly important to them... just saying. I'm an old dude, I couldn't care less, tbh. ;)

[SK Yuuki]

24 minutes ago, Furholden said:

Someone enlighten me how a premium user would have an advantage over others in PvP? Isnt it balanced gear no matter the player and a test of the player's skill? I havent done a lot of pvp...

 

But if we're talking about pve, doesn't everyone win? The fact that you're running dungeons with premium players means they're carrying you to a certain degree. And even if you lose bids, you gain big amounts of golds which contributes to your next bids so isn't that added revenue for f2p players as well? Now i'm confused what's the fuss about... My gf is f2p while i'm a master pack owner and she hit 45 way early on Hong Server, and she literally outbids most premium players.

 

Or maybe she just has decent skill.

 

The only way paying players have an advantage over ftp players in Arena PvP is that they can get to the point where they can PvP a lot quicker. That's it. Most of whatever you need in the game for PvP comes relatively easily. It may take time, but that's what happens. Instead of paying money, you are paying with time, plain and simple.

 

I don't get why people think Paying players shouldn't have advantages over ftp players. Servers are horribly expensive, even moreso in the past couple of years. If there weren't great benefits for paying palyers, a lot less people would pay for it. if there are hoards of ftp players, and very few paying players, then paying for the servers to house them becomes impossible. The company doesn't magically get the resources to keep the game running. People shold not be proud to be ftp players and complain about the benefits paying players have, especially when such benefits do not include super awsum ways to murder you (like in Maple Story and other real ptw mmos). You are literally costing them money, and giving nothing in return.

[Furholden]

1 minute ago, SK Yuuki said:

 

The only way paying players have an advantage over ftp players in Arena PvP is that they can get to the point where they can PvP a lot quicker. That's it. Most of whatever you need in the game for PvP comes relatively easily. It may take time, but that's what happens. Instead of paying money, you are paying with time, plain and simple.

 

I don't get why people think Paying players shouldn't have advantages over ftp players. Servers are horribly expensive, even moreso in the past couple of years. If there weren't great benefits for paying palyers, a lot less people would pay for it. if there are hoards of ftp players, and very few paying players, then paying for the servers to house them becomes impossible. The company doesn't magically get the resources to keep the game running. People shold not be proud to be ftp players and complain about the benefits paying players have, especially when such benefits do not include super awsum ways to murder you (like in Maple Story and other real ptw mmos). You are literally costing them money, and giving nothing in return.

Thank you because you have just put my thoughts into words. I really don't get the fuss because my gf is F2P and like i mentioned she's doing way better than TONS of premium players in exchange of her time (she doesn't need to work so she has lots of time).

 

People need to understand why the game is expensive to keep afloat in a region it wasn't even specially designed for in the first place. I shudder to even try imagining how much liscencing costs are incurred apart from all the other costs involved just to get the game over here to the west and suddenly everyone wants everything for free.

[WarBaby2]

23 minutes ago, Furholden said:

Thank you because you have just put my thoughts into words. I really don't get the fuss because my gf is F2P and like i mentioned she's doing way better than TONS of premium players in exchange of her time (she doesn't need to work so she has lots of time).

 

People need to understand why the game is expensive to keep afloat in a region it wasn't even specially designed for in the first place. I shudder to even try imagining how much liscencing costs are incurred apart from all the other costs involved just to get the game over here to the west and suddenly everyone wants everything for free.

I doubt that's what most people are really mean when they criticize the f2p model...

 

If my 25 years as a gamer (and in business) have told me anything, then how to spot a company that tries to nickle and dime their customers while investing the bare minimum into their product - that's exactly the vibe I get from BnS for now, and I'm evidentially not the only one.

 

The only reason why this wasn't evident from the get go to me is, that the original game is such a high quality product... but starting from the weak writing/translation, lackluster voice overs - in the Asian versions, even the speech bubble dialogues in major quests are voiced - and badly formatted UI to the shaky free/sub system and customer support, there is nothing that convinces me this game will be successful past the first hype... I hope I'm wrong, but I usually am not.

[CycLee]

seriously? You guys are crying over coppers? the amount of money dropped is so ridiculous low it's hard to even notice it ... i guarantee you guys - among the richest players, there will be f2p'er - those who dont't cry over peanuts but instead using their possibilities.

 

The mainincome is and will be: daylies, crafting/gathering, auctionhouse-warrioring and ofc the graceful donations of other dungeonmates. The drop money is nothing in comparision

[Furholden]

2 minutes ago, WarBaby2 said:

I doubt that's what most people are really mean when they criticize the f2p model...

 

If my 25 years as a gamer (and in business) have told me anything, then how to spot a company that tries to nickle and dime their customers while investing the bare minimum into their product - that's exactly the vibe I get from BnS for now, and I'm evidentially not the only one.

 

The only reason why this wasn't evident from the get go to me is, that the original game is such a high quality product... but starting from the weak writing/translation, lackluster voice overs - in the Asian versions, even the speech bubble dialogues in major quests are voiced - and badly formatted UI to the shaky free/sub system and customer support, there is nothing that convinces me this game will be successful past the first hype... I hope I'm wrong, but I usually am not.

Like i mentioned, the money required to buy over the liscence and run the game legally alone, costs a lot of money. So you can't say that they're not putting in effort.

 

There are also many F2P players doing exceptionally well in the PvE department. And in fact this morning i got outbid by a F2P player for most of the drops. It has only been slightly more than a week into launch and the F2P crowd who are good with MMOs have already overtaken the average casual-premium playerbase like myself. In a pay2win environment this would never happen based on my experience with Asian MMO.

[Silmaria]

4 hours ago, Enhance said:

Those "feelings" are often not the most rational. You feel like you're not getting gold from mobs and that's where you're scammed, while in fact the big money deal is going on somewhere else. You "feel" like you lost an auction bid in dungeon because you didn't have enough money, and leave feeling defeated, disregarding the money that you got. 

 

It doesn't take much to sort things out, however, and not get swayed by "feels". I suppose it depends on the person.

The money build up, those small coppers could become silver with enough mobs and then become gold.

 

The problem is the whole system is building on BIDDING SYSTEM where the most money can get anything from dungeon.

 

You also have to remember those coppers are related to low level contents of the game now up to 45, it is a SIGNIFICANT amount of money if you build up. At lv 50 and later contents, it may not be that much, but it is matter for most players who is leveling to 45 now.

 

In Age of BULLSHIT, with enough building up from small amounts of money each day and selling craps each week, I can get enough money to buy Ancient set and become of the the richest in the server, so a penny saved is a penny richer as the saving go.