Long Time PvPer Not Built for B&S

[896398_1452550620]

Just wanted to talk about this game from a different perspective--age. I'm 36 and I've been playing competitive shooters and MMOs for as long as they've existed, and I've always done quite well. It honestly doesn't matter how well, because it's the internet and nobody would believe me anyway, but I wanted at least some modicum of a qualifier before I get to my perspective. 

 

As it pertains to Blade and Soul, it's simply not a PvP style that fits me anymore. The rampant button pushing and the long-stringed combos that make this Street Fighter instead of an MMO really just don't play to my strengths. Partly because I'm just not as fast or smooth anymore, and partly because I never liked Street Fighter to begin with. I want to like this game, I really do. But the fact is that this game is only going to cater to a very niche style of PvPer, and it's not me. 

 

Here are just a few of my own opinions, which I'm sure everyone will be upset about. 

 

1. Summoners aren't balanced for 45. They may be balanced for 50, but they're wrecking the game for now which is hurting the value of the North American launch.

2. Destroyers: Do they have anything besides spin? That's not a joke. Do they? I've never seen anything but spin, spin, spin, spin, grab punch, spin.

3. Everything else seems balanced from what I've seen.

4. Tag Team is fun, though I did watch three games where a Summoner beat the entire other 3 people by himself. Not exactly what I would call balance. 

5. I love PvP, but without the gear grind or the goal to reach, I'm stuck dueling all day? Attrition. 

6. If you're in the gold bracket and you're talking junk to the silver bracket...just stop, you're embarrassing yourself. 

 

7. Switching minute details in each spec because one skill is superior to another for each individual opponent? No thank you time sink, money sink, life sink; I've got stuff to do.

 

This game is beautiful. The characters are gorgeous. The landscapes are amazing. I really wanted to love it. The truth is that I'm getting old and can't remember 50-move combos (ugh) and my fingers are too slow to match "tactics" with other players. It's not a game you can just enjoy without playing it 24/7, and I just don't have that kind of time. 

 

This may be an E-sport in Korea, and it may be popular in the NA for now, but it's my opinion (read: opinion) that it won't continue growing strong in North America. Sure, it's beautiful. Sure, the PvP is good in spurts. But this isn't Korea and North Americans don't have the patience, nor the willpower to dedicate the kind of time it takes to be great in this style of game. 15 years ago this might have been successful, but in 2016, that's sure asking for a lot for people already calling for nerfs, balance and changes and they don't even have access to the level cap. 

 

Best of luck in the future to the gamers and the devs. 

 

[Enamour]

Even though I don't agree with some points, at least this post wasn't just a scream for nerfs. I stand on the opposite side of the spectrum regarding the fact that players will take the time to learn this game. I know it's an apples/orange comparison but look at league. Look at how many teens to adults play that game and constantly actually try to improve. Arena in this game actually feels no different from league of legends for me at least. Instead of some 126 (wait 127 I believe with Jhin iirc) you have 4 x 127 abilities to remember, common rotations and the such to keep track of if you want to be anything above gold. This game literally feels no different except the fact that you have 7 classes and a larger subset of skills instead of 4-7 skills per character. The learning curve feels much the same, thus meaning it would be hard to justify that North Americans don't have the patience.

 

In the end only time will tell and I actually have faith in this game but thanks for at least presenting your reasoning in a civilized manner. Wish more people could do this honestly. 

[896398_1452550620]

Thanks for the feedback. I play League and I get where you're trying to go with it in terms of characters vs. overall abilities, but it's the combos that really change the game, not so much the abilities. Just like Street Fighter, if you know how to juggle or chain, the other person isn't even really playing. So, in essence, you could have (it already happens) where someone is chained from start to finish. To me, that's not really PvP. Again, I'm not saying people can't love it or it's not great for others, it's simply not what I believe is good PvP. Just opinion.

[Limz]

1 hour ago, 896398_1452550620 said:

Thanks for the feedback. I play League and I get where you're trying to go with it in terms of characters vs. overall abilities, but it's the combos that really change the game, not so much the abilities. Just like Street Fighter, if you know how to juggle or chain, the other person isn't even really playing. So, in essence, you could have (it already happens) where someone is chained from start to finish. To me, that's not really PvP. Again, I'm not saying people can't love it or it's not great for others, it's simply not what I believe is good PvP. Just opinion.

 

You have escape options, there is an okizeme of sorts. So, it's basically a very punishing game like Marvel vs Capcom  or various editions of Street Fighter where you are finished within one or two loops.

You simply have to have a better neutral.

[Enoll]

Hello mate (i am definitely not writing down those numbers), 

 

I am also very experienced and competitive player, people say the best BM on EU I would say one of the best BMs in EU since there are others who are not so well known. After reading your post I want to give you some heads up. Judging by your comments I can state that you are still very inexperienced in the game. My suggestion is to spend some time watching twitch channels or reading some class guides which will give you a very good perspective of the game because so far you got it all wrong (pvp wise). You are right some classes are very unbalanced and believe you me, it is extremely annoying for someone who plays at top to be demolished by a new beginner only because of their class but we count to 10 and say all level 50 patch will come. The game pvp is extremely enjoyable once you get a good grip of it. You are very right to state it is reaction time game but I would never call it "as street fighter", they are nothing alike. That being said please take my advice and have a look at some guides and videos here - http://impbns.com/  (yes I am part of this network as well and work with fantastic people that help new beginners) practice a bit and then see how you feel.

Kind Regards,

Enoll

[Makoren]

Limz already covered this a little, but this game's PvP is a lot different to others because it's comparable to fighting games like Street Fighter and Smash Bros, which generally require fast reflexes to do well.

[Rushiera]

6 hours ago, 896398_1452550620 said:

Just wanted to talk about this game from a different perspective--age. I'm 36 and I've been playing competitive shooters and MMOs for as long as they've existed, and I've always done quite well. It honestly doesn't matter how well, because it's the internet and nobody would believe me anyway, but I wanted at least some modicum of a qualifier before I get to my perspective. 

 

As it pertains to Blade and Soul, it's simply not a PvP style that fits me anymore. The rampant button pushing and the long-stringed combos that make this Street Fighter instead of an MMO really just don't play to my strengths. Partly because I'm just not as fast or smooth anymore, and partly because I never liked Street Fighter to begin with. I want to like this game, I really do. But the fact is that this game is only going to cater to a very niche style of PvPer, and it's not me. 

 

Here are just a few of my own opinions, which I'm sure everyone will be upset about. 

 

1. Summoners aren't balanced for 45. They may be balanced for 50, but they're wrecking the game for now which is hurting the value of the North American launch.

2. Destroyers: Do they have anything besides spin? That's not a joke. Do they? I've never seen anything but spin, spin, spin, spin, grab punch, spin.

3. Everything else seems balanced from what I've seen.

4. Tag Team is fun, though I did watch three games where a Summoner beat the entire other 3 people by himself. Not exactly what I would call balance. 

5. I love PvP, but without the gear grind or the goal to reach, I'm stuck dueling all day? Attrition. 

6. If you're in the gold bracket and you're talking junk to the silver bracket...just stop, you're embarrassing yourself. 

 

7. Switching minute details in each spec because one skill is superior to another for each individual opponent? No thank you time sink, money sink, life sink; I've got stuff to do.

 

This game is beautiful. The characters are gorgeous. The landscapes are amazing. I really wanted to love it. The truth is that I'm getting old and can't remember 50-move combos (ugh) and my fingers are too slow to match "tactics" with other players. It's not a game you can just enjoy without playing it 24/7, and I just don't have that kind of time. 

 

This may be an E-sport in Korea, and it may be popular in the NA for now, but it's my opinion (read: opinion) that it won't continue growing strong in North America. Sure, it's beautiful. Sure, the PvP is good in spurts. But this isn't Korea and North Americans don't have the patience, nor the willpower to dedicate the kind of time it takes to be great in this style of game. 15 years ago this might have been successful, but in 2016, that's sure asking for a lot for people already calling for nerfs, balance and changes and they don't even have access to the level cap. 

 

Best of luck in the future to the gamers and the devs. 

 

 

good post, long time pvper myself, and Blade and Soul was kind of a love and hate thing for me, the moment you like something, the game turns and slap you, it keeps doing that till you leave. 
Future content will not remedy anything. One look at the game and i can tell for which demographic was designed for, and it is clearly not pvper, it amounts to a mere 5% of the total game, the rest is just senseless dailies spam ...

[Shukran]

i don't know if you know starcraft 2.

i compare orange and apples to sc2 then.

 

in sc2 what makes you win other than strategy and build is APM. actions per minute.

 

aka: the faster you push your key combinations to build stuff and the faster you click your mouse to move units/using abilities/split army/etc the easier will be for you to win the match.

 

at low rank players don't know strategy, key combinations and apm. practice make you better and better. to understand your counters, opponet's build etc. you just need to practice. and be fast, faster. 

 

so it is in BnS. you have to adapt to rotations, to skill tree, to opponents and opponent's weakness. it needs practice.

 

im bad at comparisons and english, also.

[Kutsuu]

@896398_1452550620 being that you're such a long time and successful gamer, I'm surprised to see you giving up without giving yourself the time to learn. This isn't the only game to come around that requires knowledge and twitchy movement to win and I'm sure you've put in the time before if you are what you claim. Why are you in such a rush, anyway? You don't have to play 24 hours straight. You can play 24 hours over 2 weeks, or whatever your schedule lets you. The game isn't going anywhere...

[896398_1452550620]

Thanks to all who replied with thoughtful messages and opinions. It's rare to see on a forum nowadays. As to Kutsuu, you're right, of course. I could play whenever I like and all that. The problem is that without getting the muscle memory to learn all the combos (I was never more than a button smasher in Street Fighter, Tekken, or Mortal Kombat), I'm just not going to compete well. And if I'm anything it's insanely competitive. I'm not giving up as much as conceding defeat for a style that I'm just not great at. And I want to make it clear that I'm not saying "well, class beats me so this game sucks", I'm actually saying that I don't have the skill to (or desire) to compete to my own standard. I know when I'm not good enough at something, and well, this is one of those times.

[Kutsuu]

5 minutes ago, 896398_1452550620 said:

Thanks to all who replied with thoughtful messages and opinions. It's rare to see on a forum nowadays. As to Kutsuu, you're right, of course. I could play whenever I like and all that. The problem is that without getting the muscle memory to learn all the combos (I was never more than a button smasher in Street Fighter, Tekken, or Mortal Kombat), I'm just not going to compete well. And if I'm anything it's insanely competitive. I'm not giving up as much as conceding defeat for a style that I'm just not great at. And I want to make it clear that I'm not saying "well, class beats me so this game sucks", I'm actually saying that I don't have the skill to (or desire) to compete to my own standard. I know when I'm not good enough at something, and well, this is one of those times.

 

That makes sense, but I'm just pointing out that you can learn the game over a longer time scale. There's no reason to rush. 

[Rane]

Let me start out by saying, I stopped reading at "Summoners are."

 

Ok another pvp whine thread, but lets not go there.

 

I want to like this game, I really do. But the fact is that this game is only going to cater to a very niche style of PvPer, and it's not me. 

 

Lets talk about this, how, or why, is this a problem. Every game is not meant for everyone. Raise of hands for all the players here who loved Barney hide and go seek on SNES. Great game right? I doubt it. Guess what bro, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a game not being your thing. It doesn't make the game, wrong, bad, or broken, and if it only targets/appeals to a 'niche' group of players. Which, infact, are the more hardcore elitest style pvp players from the previous years beyond.

 

Did you spend money on founders pack? And now your salty its not a game you like? My thoughts, don't buy games that you don't check in to first. If you honestly saw all this fast paced non-targeting active combat and thought. "Hey I'll be great in this like League of Legends." Well, no.

 

I'm 30 years old, my MMO legacy probably REALLY started with Diablo 2. (PvP is always a joke in that genre) but quickly evolved to Lineage/Lineage 2 etc.

 

I've been here and there through all MMORPG's. I have learned many things.

 

1. I hate most open world pvp these days. Its just not fun. Gear plays to big of a role, its a gank fest. Zerg squads no skill involved.

 

2. I hate games where your just standing infront of each other clicking your rotations, and a winner is chosen based on

 

A. Class vs Class.

 

B. Whoever gets the first lucky proc/evade.

 

I'm all for the classic style of building characters for the win, but MMORPG's are getting away from the RTS strategy style combat, and turning in to something where skill is involved. This is forcing the bad players to go play MOBA's. If you can't hang with actively reacting to what is going on, without it being pre-determined and streamlined. You WILL NOT enjoy your time here.

 

Also, might I suggest playing Force Master? Everytime I fight one I just shake me head, you play this awesome style combat game to sit back throwing fireballs like any other run of the mill MMO. Lol. Might suit you better.

 

[Glint]

The thing is, a lot of today's generation/pvpers have been waiting for a game like this. A lot of us come out of Aion, for example, where the PvP, although rewarding, fast paced, intricate with mechanics to abuse with a mild learning curve, was FILLED with grind, gear, RNG, pay2win... Other games have lacked the same fast paced PvP that people are craving to stimulate them these days. Fluidity and freedom, as it seems, with the lack of RNG is what makes the PvP in this game great.

 

 

The combos I think are fun and are what cut bad players from decent players, however I do think some of the locks are a little long/ridiculous. I know defending from them is what it takes and not blowing all your counter/removeshock/escape/whatever you wanna call them is a big part of that, as it is in Aion... But being stuck in the air counting how long it takes for me to come back down takes away from the aforementioned element of speed and freedom and fluidity. That's my only real gripe. Otherwise, so far, I'm enjoying it and the premise of the combat in this game.

[Goreshade]

While I respect your opinion and your right to have it, alot of this rings false or seems like you might be misinformed.

 

4. If you had watched last night, you would have seen me absolutely shred 3 teams on my sin. That's because I'm a low level gold player atm (1680's), and I was still copper 1300 in tag team. My team was *amazed* by what I was doing, but I'm still really just an average player, I was just going up against noobs.

7. when I face another sin I spend 3 seconds, 0 thought and 0 silver changing my landmine skill. Countercomping isn't hard, time consuming or complicated (at the moment at least)

5. Some people genuinely pvp for the competition, not for rewards.

6. Even though its infantile, trash talk exists in every game. Hardly a BNS phenomenon.

[Dremlock]

10 hours ago, 896398_1452550620 said:

 

4. Tag Team is fun, though I did watch three games where a Summoner beat the entire other 3 people by himself. Not exactly what I would call balance. 

 

 

This should never happen. Pretty obviously misplays.


Anyway. It's been a week. Certainly BnS plays different to traditional MMOs. It is more like a fighting game. At first it does seem like the combos are more elaborate/longer/button mashy, but like anything else, it's a matter of getting used to it. I'm only gold at KFM so I don't pretend to be an expert, but I can recognize I just started a week ago. Just gotta be patient with progress in things you're not familiar with. 

[LadyLuxuria]

Eh. some of us are "Long time PvPers" because we like PvP, not because there is a carrot on the end of a stick. Later.

[Fed79]

I'm 36 also and i really enjoy this game.  I like it because there is a lot to learn and the pvp is fun in all the right ways.  I know i wont compare to faster, younger players who twitch faster but I think that's natural, instead i am far ahead in terms of position play/strategy, and i think that will be even more important in 6v6 and any other larger pvp settings they implement.  I enjoy a challenge and in improving, and I have been surprised at how much I have enjoyed playing this game. 

[896398_1452550620]

Thanks for all the *cricket*heads who had to ruin a normal thread that actually praised the game. Stay true to the internet you *cricket*ing illiterate, reading comprehension-is-hard retards. 

 

LadyLuxuria, go *cricket* yourself. 

GoreShade, go *cricket* yourself.

Rane, double go *cricket* yourself. 

 

Idiots like you shouldn't be allowed to communicate or procreate. Shove that in your elitist pipe and shove it up your ass.

[Rane]

Listen, while I don't doubt you beat up some lvl 20 newbies in copper ranked tag matches.

 

Gold rank is literally nothing, its basically the starting rank for 45's.

 

I reached gold without EVER ONCE facing a Destoyer, LBM, or BM.

 

I've been gold ever since because I don't spar and I'm learning match ups as I play, but I sit around an even record. I get shredded a lot by playstyles I haven't seen.

 

The ONLY class I feel really underpowered against is KFM, and apparently, we are supposed to smash them? (Sin) But I still play far to aggressive and forget about using my lmb instead of just rmb-f against classes that can block x.x.

 

Until you can clear world bosses solo on whatever class your using, you have no right to even speak about any class match ups, its a clear sign that you infact have no idea how your class works, to match up against anything. You can't even kill an NPC.

[Goreshade]

1 hour ago, 896398_1452550620 said:

Thanks for all the *cricket*heads who had to ruin a normal thread that actually praised the game. Stay true to the internet you *cricket*ing illiterate, reading comprehension-is-hard retards. 

 

LadyLuxuria, go *cricket* yourself. 

GoreShade, go *cricket* yourself.

Rane, double go *cricket* yourself. 

 

Idiots like you shouldn't be allowed to communicate or procreate. Shove that in your elitist pipe and shove it up your ass.

..And you say you're 36? I only ask because this appears to be conduct more befitting a 14 year old.

 

I'm sorry you're not a fan of differing opinions, or being told when you're factually incorrect. Unfortunately, it's a major part of "big boy" life (I wish you luck in one day maturing). My friendly advice would be to acclimate yourself to it now, even at 36 it's not too late. Otherwise, I wish you a blissfully ignorant life somewhere far, far away from me.

 

Edit: Any just so we're clear, the "Tailpipe" euphemism is generally meant to mean someones ass. Using both was unnecessary, unless you've been assuming all this time that people should be ruining their mufflers.

[896398_1452550620]

Go suck off your buddy Rane, son.

[Forcekin]

You're right, it most likely won't grow big in EU/NA, because westerners make excuse threads on how they're too old to remember combos and their fingers hurt, while Asian players just play and practice.

 

Age of the Street Fighter IV EVO world champions of the past 5 years: Daigo Umehara (34), Infiltration (30), Louffy (29), Momochi (29), Xian (25).

There are plenty of other players of SF and other fighting games who place high all the time in your age bracket, such as GamerBee (36) and Justin Wong (30).

 

It's quite clear you have done minimal learning in this game since you're unclear on why Destroyers spin all the time (and you haven't seen them do anything else, apparently), and after looking at your conduct in the previous posts I am not going to carry a conversation with you. All I wanted to say is: stay free old man, stay making excuses.

[CottonEyeJoe]

896398_1452550620

 

I get what you are saying. I am 45 and so far love the play style of this game.

 

I just recently started so haven't tried my hand at pvp yet but I am afraid I will end up feeling like you.

That the game is a little more twitchy than my own personal ability. I know I will never be as fast as

I used to be, but for me pvp is just another part of the game to have fun. I just want to be able to

compete somewhat and have a good time without getting slaughtered by faster twitchy people.

[PFunDaddy]

3 hours ago, 896398_1452550620 said:

Thanks for all the *cricket*heads who had to ruin a normal thread that actually praised the game. Stay true to the internet you *cricket*ing illiterate, reading comprehension-is-hard retards. 

 

LadyLuxuria, go *cricket* yourself. 

GoreShade, go *cricket* yourself.

Rane, double go *cricket* yourself. 

 

Idiots like you shouldn't be allowed to communicate or procreate. Shove that in your elitist pipe and shove it up your ass.

 

I don't understand why you felt a need to ruin your own thread, although to be fair seeing you fall prey to every failing you accused them of (they all seemed pretty damn respectful to me, too) gave me a chuckle. Especially those last two sentences are comedy gold; it's hilarious that you didn't notice the inconsistency in telling people that they're lesser than you then immediately telling them that they're elitist. 

 

More on topic, a good number of the points you made (just because you said they were opinions doesn't mean people can't tell you that they're misguided) are going to be addressed in exactly two weeks, on February 10th. There's not much point in complaining about not having PvP rewards and the level 45 imbalance when it's going to be corrected nearly immediately. Here's the link to the official announcement: http://www.bladeandsoul.com/uk/news/rising-waters-arrives-february-10/

 

Talking about your main point (possibly, you did spend a lot more time talking about the failings of the PvP system), which as far as I can tell is being worried about the game not being suited to your playstyle and physical/mental capabilities, I would ask you this: Are you having fun? Because if you are, then why would you care if you can compete at the highest level? This is the kind of game where you can continuously improve your personal capabilities and will (if the game's system works properly) constantly be challenged at a level appropriate to you. If you're being challenged by people who are about as good as you are, that alone should satisfy your need for competition since that's what fair competition is.

 

And if you're not having fun because the gameplay doesn't suit you, there isn't much for us to contribute, so you can't really blame us for talking about the rest of the post which is actually available for discussion.