The option to re-watch cutscenes

[Yndril]

41 minutes ago, Gennady said:

I am a developer. Just not a game developer. I understand that I don't how this project's structure looks like and I understand that unexpected problems may occur in process of development (happens to me a lot, I'm always too positive in my estimates). But this feature doesn't like to me harder to implement than skill revamp or adding a new class. NCSoft has a great experience in game development after all, so I expect their code to be well-organized (so, problems with cutscenes order or names theoretically shouldn't exist).

 

And if developers would say "oh, this is too much coding" to any feature request, we wouldn't see any new game and old projects will just die. 

You are aware that it took them several months to fix the skill revamp? And for what it seems, the skill revamp is mostly changes, more than them adding to the game. It seems to me they changed the already implemented skill tree and dummied it down. While it is a major revamp, changing usually requires more planning and theoretical balancing than actual changing of the code. Do note, usually, not always the case.

 

And I agree, they probably have it more structured since it isn't their first game, but we don't know that, and either way it'll not be "just extracting" them.

[Nekonata]

13 hours ago, Yndril said:

 

Well, triggers aren't rocket science... remember how every time you walk close enough to yeti's place a cutscene triggers? Condition to get on XYZ coordinates met. Every time you kill asura and zulia walks to his half-dead body a cutscene triggers? Asura is dead -> NPC non cutscene animation plays -> animation finished -> condition for cutscene trigger met. Chatted to a quest NPC until certain line and cutscene appears? You get the drill...

 

I don't see why you would go trough trouble of doing random extracts when the only thing you need to do to implement proper cutscenes is take a look at the current story quest line and dungeon cutscenes, name according to sequence in story/dungeon, and mind you, they are naming the buttons in the menu, that's the easiest part. The buttons are linked to whatever name that cutscene has internally, which should be known already.  I imagine one of the problems would be the  fact that most of cutscenes take place on the map you're currently on, so depending on how they would make the rewatch system, they need to adapt loading of cutscene elements. 

For example, one of the ways to do it would be to make buttons give you a temporary quest that simulates a part of quest line that includes the cutscene you want to watch. This basically makes you replay a part of story line. Another way would be to make buttons force you into a loading screen loading all cutscene elements and then finally play it - the trigger to play a cutscene becomes clicking on a certain button. I imagine that cutscenes already contain all the information about what needs to be loaded. 

To "add a few buttons" - a metaphor saying that they only need to code actions that are already programmed in the game - the only thing that would make developing  longer is the amount of cutscenes.

[Yndril]

15 minutes ago, Nekonata said:

Well, triggers aren't rocket science... remember how every time you walk close enough to yeti's place a cutscene triggers? Condition to get on XYZ coordinates met. Every time you kill asura and zulia walks to his half-dead body a cutscene triggers? Asura is dead -> NPC non cutscene animation plays -> animation finished -> condition for cutscene trigger met. Chatted to a quest NPC until certain line and cutscene appears? You get the drill...

 

I don't see why you would go trough trouble of doing random extracts when the only thing you need to do to implement proper cutscenes is take a look at the current story quest line and dungeon cutscenes, name according to sequence in story/dungeon, and mind you, they are naming the buttons in the menu, that's the easiest part. The buttons are linked to whatever name that cutscene has internally, which should be known already.  I imagine one of the problems would be the  fact that most of cutscenes take place on the map you're currently on, so depending on how they would make the rewatch system, they need to adapt loading of cutscene elements. 

For example, one of the ways to do it would be to make buttons give you a temporary quest that simulates a part of quest line that includes the cutscene you want to watch. This basically makes you replay a part of story line. Another way would be to make buttons force you into a loading screen loading all cutscene elements and then finally play it - the trigger to play a cutscene becomes clicking on a certain button. I imagine that cutscenes already contain all the information about what needs to be loaded. 

To "add a few buttons" - a metaphor saying that they only need to code actions that are already programmed in the game - the only thing that would make developing  longer is the amount of cutscenes.

That trigger is a line of code, you can't just TAKE that trigger, you can use the trigger, but then you still EXTRACT the trigger. You have NO clue what naming convention they use, it is MOST likely korean, and in that case they need to translate it, and translating that takes time if it's to be done correctly or we'll have some funky translations like nomad for dimensional salvo or pecking crows for whirling scourge.... Even if they re-use the code it'll still take longer than you imagine, and re-using code is still an amount of code. You are grossly underestimating the time it would take to do that feature and the amount of code it would require, even if a lot of it is "re-used", they still need to GET that code to re-use it.

 

And don't even start on loading in-world interactive cutscenes (like the wise men discussing opening the door), that is not going to be re-using any code, they'd need to code that from scratch.

[Nekonata]

4 minutes ago, Yndril said:

That trigger is a line of code, you can't just TAKE that trigger, you can use the trigger, but then you still EXTRACT the trigger. You have NO clue what naming convention they use, it is MOST likely korean, and in that case they need to translate it, and translating that takes time if it's to be done correctly or we'll have some funky translations like nomad for dimensional salvo or pecking crows for whirling scourge.... Even if they re-use the code it'll still take longer than you imagine, and re-using code is still an amount of code. You are grossly underestimating the time it would take to do that feature and the amount of code it would require, even if a lot of it is "re-used", they still need to GET that code to re-use it.

 

And don't even start on loading in-world interactive cutscenes (like the wise men discussing opening the door), that is not going to be re-using any code, they'd need to code that from scratch.

I really don't get why are you getting all fussy about translations, I mean, wouldn't koreans get mad if we got rewatch option and they didn't? They would implement it in both games, and koreans would probably be the ones to code it, while we would get funky translations as usual, if they actually bother doing it (I guess they don't have it already, do they?). I don't remember ncsoft implementing anything themselves that doesn't profit. I don't even think about them for things like these.

 

Are you aware that they literally cut down story line and implemented unlocked windstride points through story in last few patches, combined with increased exp?

They still fiddle with that code. You are making it sound as if finding your old code is as slow as writing a completely new one. 

 

Now, couldn't you use the story replay mode for saving little yunwa's butt? Reusing the code while changing it so it's treated as a repeatable side quest, and cutting it's ties with already saved values. Progression in such instances resets when you leave in middle of questing/don't enter yet.

 

Now tell me, what are my estimates for a rewatch to get implemented? Since you are so sure of yourself that I'm grossly underestimating it. 

p.s. in-world cutscenes should be made skipable. I wanted to poke my eyes out every time at wise men doors because of how slow the dialogue goes on. 

[BlueBunnay]

We should remember we recently got a training room. A SICK training room at that. Ain't no simple coding involved in that. To them, this cut scene replay is nothing. In fact, they eat these codes for breakfast. Compare that to making new classes, more expansions, yadi yadi yah.

[Yndril]

8 hours ago, Nekonata said:

I really don't get why are you getting all fussy about translations, I mean, wouldn't koreans get mad if we got rewatch option and they didn't? They would implement it in both games, and koreans would probably be the ones to code it, while we would get funky translations as usual, if they actually bother doing it (I guess they don't have it already, do they?). I don't remember ncsoft implementing anything themselves that doesn't profit. I don't even think about them for things like these.

 

Are you aware that they literally cut down story line and implemented unlocked windstride points through story in last few patches, combined with increased exp?

They still fiddle with that code. You are making it sound as if finding your old code is as slow as writing a completely new one. 

 

Now, couldn't you use the story replay mode for saving little yunwa's butt? Reusing the code while changing it so it's treated as a repeatable side quest, and cutting it's ties with already saved values. Progression in such instances resets when you leave in middle of questing/don't enter yet.

 

Now tell me, what are my estimates for a rewatch to get implemented? Since you are so sure of yourself that I'm grossly underestimating it. 

p.s. in-world cutscenes should be made skipable. I wanted to poke my eyes out every time at wise men doors because of how slow the dialogue goes on. 

You keep comparing CHANGES that takes much less time to fix than ADDING to a game, stop mixing those two up. What you are effectively asking for is the training room they recently implemented in west, and have you any idea how long it took them to implement that after KR got it? Not to mention how long it took them to add it in KR itself. Despite that they had all the "code" and could just "re-use" it according to you, and w have WAY more cutscenes than bosses.

 

Also, take a break at those cutscenes, I always alt-tab and do something else during that time. There's a lot fo thigns to read on the forums, reddit or things to watch/listen to on youtube.

[Nekonata]

4 hours ago, Yndril said:

You keep comparing CHANGES that takes much less time to fix than ADDING to a game, stop mixing those two up. What you are effectively asking for is the training room they recently implemented in west, and have you any idea how long it took them to implement that after KR got it? Not to mention how long it took them to add it in KR itself. Despite that they had all the "code" and could just "re-use" it according to you, and w have WAY more cutscenes than bosses.

 

Also, take a break at those cutscenes, I always alt-tab and do something else during that time. There's a lot fo thigns to read on the forums, reddit or things to watch/listen to on youtube.

I'm not mixing up anything, that was about you saying that old code is SO hard to get - which points at crappy organisation.  They implemented training room together with skill changes and a giant patch of new maps and new story line - it took so long because the update all together is massive and planned to be done together, also because the updates we are getting have their own schedule. Who knows when they actually translated/adapted the training room itself? Do you know? 2 months ago? 2 hours before deadline? Do you know when exactly korea started making it and when they finished it, when they implemented it? Did you know that you can create things and still let them collect dust later? I've been playing this other game in the past that has few complete models and animations implemented, yet they have never been used, the game is about 7+ years old now. Do you know if they already finished making and testing the gunner class, but are waiting for x month because they can release it whenever they want? It's a bussiness. Your favourite graphic card company won't release massive improvement every few months, they will feed you bit by bit for years. 

 

And eh, I'm really not that interested in rewatching cutscenes with my own character in them. The character in the story is so dumb (both as an insult and literally) that the only cutscene I would rewatch is my char trying to "commit sudoku". What has it learned in years of being trashed around after blindly charging directly at an opponent? According to the latest act, nothing.

[Yndril]

16 hours ago, Nekonata said:

I'm not mixing up anything, that was about you saying that old code is SO hard to get - which points at crappy organisation.  They implemented training room together with skill changes and a giant patch of new maps and new story line - it took so long because the update all together is massive and planned to be done together, also because the updates we are getting have their own schedule. Who knows when they actually translated/adapted the training room itself? Do you know? 2 months ago? 2 hours before deadline? Do you know when exactly korea started making it and when they finished it, when they implemented it? Did you know that you can create things and still let them collect dust later? I've been playing this other game in the past that has few complete models and animations implemented, yet they have never been used, the game is about 7+ years old now. Do you know if they already finished making and testing the gunner class, but are waiting for x month because they can release it whenever they want? It's a bussiness. Your favourite graphic card company won't release massive improvement every few months, they will feed you bit by bit for years. 

 

And eh, I'm really not that interested in rewatching cutscenes with my own character in them. The character in the story is so dumb (both as an insult and literally) that the only cutscene I would rewatch is my char trying to "commit sudoku". What has it learned in years of being trashed around after blindly charging directly at an opponent? According to the latest act, nothing.

Neither you or I know their schedule, WE just know what we see. Can't see when they announced the training room, but people have been talking about them asking for it for years before it was finally announced then implemented, I think it was in a test server before the skill revamp (can't verify, think I read it somewhere but I'm too lazy to look it up again), but it didn't work as intended so they stalled it until the revamp where a lot of the previous code was changed and reorganized. WE got it almost half a year later.

 

Bottomline? They never created the training room before the revamp because of complications, what makes you think that there won't be any complications doing this similar thing with code that was probably created around the same time? Are they going to revamp the cutscene system as well? It MIGHT go better with the cutscenes, but we don't know. And I'm always more inclined to expect the worst and hope for the best. Less chance of being disappointed then.

 

And regarding the story... I completely agree. I mean heck, our moral compass is like "homocide? yeah whatever. You're in my way!" and then suddenly "what did you say?! STEAL!? HECK NO!"...

 

Edit: I think you mean Seppuku, though you gave me a laugh ^^

[SayaNe]

Some old cutscenes played wrong for me, with no textures, Mushin wings played like this, I would like very much to be able to rewatch them. YT is not an option, I play mmorpg to be a character in the story. My new rig is much better and plays the cutscenes just nicely. Now I could rewatch, record, and take screenshots, of my character in different outfits and edited also.

 

This happened to me before (facepalm) with Aion, I love Aion, the story I found it amazing, but it has no replay button, so If I were to reinstall the game, I won't be able to rewatch all the storyline (eating pop corn) and remember what is was really going on there. And no YT is not an option, my Aion character is adorable, she like a dear friend to me.

 

I obviously love BnS story, I'm a huge fan. I cannot believe there r player out there that would like msq to be remove and to be jumped to lvl 50 right away T.T)

[Izzye]

I agree with this! Sometimes my dumb internet cuts off, and makes me miss the scenes. :c Rewatching on BnS instead of Youtube would be thousands of times better! It's boring seeing someone else's char, I wanna see my own. I loved watching the scenes, actually more than playing tbh. It's like watching an action movie! I would pay money to get this freakin feature, lmao! Even if they made it 20 bucks to get it, I'd pay for it in a heartbeat!

[KarasuDesu]

I am actually all for it. Not all of cutscenes are on youtube and I would love to rewatch them with the updated dubbing. (I saw some cutscenes with Yuchun and Soha for instance with the old VO, which was plain terrible.)

[Cheeyn]

I would really adore it if there was such an option. The great story based around your character was the reason i started to play this game to begin with. It's a shame there is no replay feature..! Hopefully the developers will take this into consideration!

[Neriux777]

On 4/21/2017 at 5:15 PM, eric11zhao said:

just search youtube caveman lol

YES, some nice black girl with dude's voice after yesterdays ... good time...