Teaching Pugs. Advice needed.

[JoannaRamira]

So yeah as in title.

 

When a purple goes daily, in LFP party i always expect that there would always be one or more newbie new to dungeons or have watched vid/guide but need practice.

 

My approach is usually ask if there is anyone new or first time. and then line up the mechs on how dg runs to them.  I tried to be as comprehensive as possible so that the newbie know why it must be done that way.. Like say.. When yeti goes cold phase, i will explain that there are 2 (3 in 6 man) Options is either to take ice or have Sin/FM/BM save us. If we take ice we must not down Yeti below 35% (Around 33 actually but i added safety factor as people need time to actually slow down) and we can safely leave 3 cruxes or 4 at most so our DPS won't fall.

 

For more complicated boss like Asura.. I usually break it down to "Ice stance, Fire stance, Lifeblooms and alternating stance" based on the Hp and behavior (like.. when Asura saying "I will break you" it's a sign that he will do ice stance and spawn blue sword)  Problem is that it seems my explanation often end somewhat long and clearly some party member especially the most eager one may not be patient enough to listen.

 

Things got easier tho when i have whole gang of friends and just 1-2 newbies in our 6 man as my friends have time,patience and understand why i need to go that length to teach.

 

However in Pugs.. it's complicated, add non english speaker and i have serious problem.  The best i could handle is Indonesian as i am Indonesian myself and can instruct in my native language. But Spanish and Portugese.. well.  My special person no #1 however can speak Portugese and Spanish and we often go together.. However there would be time when i had to LFP and she's not present. Clearly i have to fend for myself, win the heart of party and finish the DG.

 

Most newbie i met often enthusiastic and patient, although yes some are very shy and timid.. only speak after first wipes occur.  There were also Newbie that watched/read vid and guide but it's ther first time to practice what they watched/read.  One of our newbie in Nexus got tremor when time come to face drill sergeant  and accidentally KD when it time to daze. Although she watched the vid about 5 times.

 

So yeah based on above i need advice on how :

 

1.Crowd control,  how to calm down the most eager one so that he/she not rush and well.. mess things up. Or shunning the newbie

 

2.Explanation on mechanics, somehow i need a way to make it fast, simple yet understandable. So the newbie can understand and hopefully take advantage of it to improve his/her understanding, survival and DPS

 

Carry run is not an option for me as..well, i have 250-300ms ping and i were happen to main destroyer. i can't into party save like FM,BM or Sin.  I may have 600Ap and HM-10 but... well with 250ms ping im no better than 300-400Ap dest with lesser ping.  So yeah... i need others to survive and they had to have at least same level of understanding of dungeon mechanics as me.

 

I really hate leaving newbie on their fate except when my anger bested me (the newbie or someone else were rude etc).

 

Well that is all.

 

 

[Shuchin]

I think it's great what you are doing and what you are trying to do, though I fear I cannot be of much help.

 

When I try to explain boss mechanics I need 10 minutes, and in my past experience no one listens to that unless we are past our 2nd wipe and all the impatient ones have left. some of my best Yeti runs were with the Try-harder freshers who had not won it even once but were willing to invest an hour to win - and we did. ^_^

 

I think the best thing is to start small and then get longer. Start off with just a few lines before the first attack. Ask who is new, explain 2 or maximal 3 important things, then let's go. After the first wipe, people will listen more and know better what you are talking about. The talking before the first wipe is important though, to show them there's someone experienced here who is willing to teach. That can be a strong force to help them hold out and stick together.

For the 2nd try, I usually dish out a heroic friendship charm as well. That's showing I am willing to invest and believe in the team, and they might even have some placebo better play (because the effect of the charm is actually really small). XD

 

If you have flamers or self-declared "pros" that just want to bash on the newbies it's best to wave them good bye as soon as possible. I never react if one of them demands to kick a low AP member, and I actively speak on behalf of newbies if the flamers try to bully them into leaving. However, be realistic with the team's power. If they are newbies they will not be able to do Yeti at 400 AP, even with your help. So tell them the truth if you think it's destined to fail, though in 90% of cases it won't be necessary.

 

Best for learning is when there's just one or two freshers in a PUG, and the rest experienced, but of course in a PUG you cannot control that. :/

[JoannaRamira]

Thanks @Shuchin

 

and yeah..i still remember teaching Yeti pugs which lasted over 15 wipes. and we made it eventually. Only 2 students out of all 6 stayed with me till the end. 

 

Anyway..i think i should bring at least 1 or more friends when PUGing.. to back up and perhaps help crowd control. 

 

 

[Windy]

I'm happy that they are ppls that explain.I got many good tips from ppls that weren't my class,but happened to have played it .All my respect for ppls that have this patience to do such things!

[JoannaRamira]

And now new problem ..well not really new popped up.

 

So yeah Ebondrake Citadel released.. Obviously i jumped the bandwagon and try.  Problem appeared immediately.. in shape of silence of teammate.  I asked team whether explanation is needed.. The response was just silence. Only 1-2 person respond. rests were silent. 

 

We started boss and of course we messed and wiped.  I have the Citadel guide printed up beside me and i tried to explain to party at first boss on when to Stun, Daze or KD.  Only those few who respond on my attempt of discussion did the CC correctly, however that's not enough. enrage or 10 circles killed us.  We wasted our time mostly to res dying people.  or chasing boss.  or killing mobs spawned.

 

The worst however...everyone just leave.. one BM just say "it's hard" then poof... This lack of perseverance disturbed me. How do i or other people supposed to practice what we read or watch if people keep leaving ;w;

 

I can't tank myself because if i tank i can no longer double KD boss when needed.

 

So yeah based on above i need advice on how to :

 

1.Crowd control,  how to calm down the most eager one so that he/she not rush and well.. mess things up. Or shunning the newbie

 

2.Explanation on mechanics, somehow i need a way to make it fast, simple yet understandable. So the newbie can understand and hopefully take advantage of it to improve his/her understanding, survival and DPS

 

3.Breaking the silence.

 

4.Keep the spirit up, so party member don't leave after wipes.

 

Anyway guess i will try again tomorrow.. i keep getting weird crash now where BNS just freeze and strange pop up "Client.exe is not permitted to access graphic hardware" pop up. Probably NVIDIA driver problem with BnS or other thing.  Had to leave the party because of that...

[dualistique]

I think you just need to accept the reality that there are people out there that got used to being carried during some dungeons and never had to do major mechanics.  I'm pretty sure a lot of beginning SIN/SUM are having a hard trouble when they go to Ebondrake now because the whole party is pretty reliant on them using one skill and they probably aren't used to be the 'highlight' person to do a major mechanic.  At least the other dungeons are pretty forgiving when a person messes up since people can normally 'make up for the mistakes'.

 

The funny part of this game is that the mechanics are not even hard compared to other MMOs.  People's lack of communication is what makes BnS hard.  Sometimes I find myself having to stop DPS in order to type stuff like, 'baby diapers are coming, 3 flowers switch side' and a lot of other stupid little short phrases for mechanics. 

 

And it also seems like a pattern that people don't care about why mechanics work and rather just be told what to do.  So instead of explaining in Ebondrake about why the party needs to stealth, you'll probably find more success to say, "After marker gets marked, group up and party stealth next AoE attack'.

 

When pugging, you're dealing with RNG in itself to either find a group of people that are willing to learn or people that are stubborn.

[xxxAoi]

All I can say is:

- Initiate the communication (eg. in SN, "I have 2 stun, 1 daze, 1 kd.. Don't waste them until he jumps back in the middle)

- Shorten the instructions. If you can do it while hitting the boss, do it. (Eg. Line up behind BM and let him block, no air combo, etc.)

- Observe and tell that player what to do if you find him doing it wrong.

- No cursing, they'll feel more ashame to speak up and admit they're new.

[Shuchin]

People that curse and insult other team members are poison to a group. They annoy everyone, no matter how justified their annoyance or focused on a specific player they might be. Usually I pray for those people to leave after the 1st wipe (which mostly they do). And if they don't, I usually tell them it's either them or me staying.

 

Cursing is not as bad as insulting, I often give a warning first when they do that, reminding them to watch their language and manners.