Review Time/Rant

[CrimsonKitsune]

This review was needed for a long time and I hope it inspires people to give more constructive criticism about the game. Now first off lets list off some facts about the current state of the game.

1. Less people play the game than at launch.
2. There is few things in the game to help cultivate social harmony
3. Games population is continually shrinking. (subjective)

Now that these facts are listed its time to delve into the game points, this update was a step in the right the direction but it also showed much flaws that still need much work on. 

1. PVE
2 .PVP
3. RNG
4. Quest rewards
5. Social aspect of the game
 

PVE

Now this is kinda a love hate relationship this aspect of the game is awesome with its unique dungeons and interesting boss fights. I feel this part of the game was executed properly in most regards, the problem I have is the quantity of rewards (I class rng as what kind of item you received rather than quantity) its too low at the moment and to make matters worse the bid mechanic makes things almost unbearable to farm so hard only to end with a "close call but no cigar" moment. It makes the prospect of doing the dungeon unrewarding and more of a chore rather than a recreational activity. To remedy this problem I can see no other viable alternative than to take out the bid system and put a collection system instead of bidding the end dungeon rewards should be given to everyone, besides most of the stuff is useless anyways 9 out of 10 you will end up with some alpine variant and mirage crystal and unless you're in a clan or guild you most likely won't need them. I say this is the only viable way is because every mmo has an aspect that can't be taken away or it completely destroys the game ( NO its not RNG or grind that drives away people other than yourself). I love to critique but also offer solutions which I personally can't see how it would negatively impact the players experience of the game.

PVP 

Its kind of a mess but as of the last update it brought hope and some things that need to addressed. I love the whirlwind event its a great alternative to summoners hall aka Arena, coupled with the event going on it makes getting HM skills viable. The only negatives I ran into was if a team afks through the match and I don't get a certain amount of damage I get no points even though it wasn't my fault this needs to be fixed. The next negative is when the gear isn't equalized, I am decently geared but I am not just worrying about my experience I worry about the experiences of others as well because mmos are a team effort. To fix the problems of pvp I would suggest listening to the communities recommendations of re balancing of classes as of right now its kind of like water beats paper, paper beats rock etc and if you're out of the equation then you're out of luck. Whirl wind valley credit should be given to the winning team instead of a damage requirement, also the equalization of gear is a must as well because pvp is about skill not gear. 

RNG

This update has lead me to the next big problem of the game which will cause new people to leave and thats RNG. This games RNG is so bad its not even funny it makes we want to scream sometimes, how can I be doing daily challenges for 4 weeks straight only to get 1 gold 5 days the rest was nothing. I heard of stringing along the player but this is just too much now and to top it all off this very problem makes the event happening now worthless for the player base you most likely will get a bruiser charm (like I need 10 ap I rather moonstones dammit!). There are two ways BNS can play this either change rng fully and increase rates or compromise and do this if you the player does 7-10 day straight of daily challenges then you will get a preferential chest will give you the best possible outcome for the perspective chest take it like this its like a bar on the side of you daily tab and when its full the chest you open will give you the best possible outcome. This method rewards players for playing the game and gives incentives to keep playing, also if you refer friends to play this game you get gold to your account each person can be 5-10 gold something to give a new breath of life into the game.  

Quest rewards

They can use work the exp is paltry at best and the gold is scrap wage, it feels like I am slave doing the requests for I mean go here kill monster or go here collect stuff the least you can do is give me 5-10 gold each from main purple dungeon dailies (and please spare me the conspiracy theory of this will inflate things you need people and willingness to inflate neither which is present in this game as of late). Solutions for this problem is make  exp instead of 10,000+ make it either 60,000+- 100,000+ to make things progress more smother this is only for yeti,necro etc which can only be done once a day. 

Social Aspect of the game

There is no parts of the game to or nothing to make people want to socialize its just go in do daily and log off and this game has soo much potential its seriously a waste. We need things in this game to make people want to socialize with each other (sometimes I rarely talk with other players the weapon progression is real). I would suggest more social game mechanics like whirlwind valley that inspire team work in sense (we all know wwv doesnt bring the best side of us) but its baby steps for now.

This game has great potential and I believe it can be great but the way how things are now we need to seriously re think the viability of the game. Also you all are free to offer rebuttals but lets have a healthy debate.
 

[Deathrainer]

i can't agree more... atm hm8... and i have a very long way to hm9 and hm10... it feels like im not advancing, and im in the point that upgrading my gear is like very difficult: true pirate and true siren accesories, i got my soul... but i feel like im not advancing, atm i decide to level up alts for multiply my ss income and learn other classes... its true that im in mexico so when i can play the people are sleeping, this is both an advantage and a disadvantage, ill explain: a disadvantage cause  i need to do my daily challenge at certain hours for going with people that have ap enough but in the other hand i can farm misty woods easily so i can farm my ss pretty well at night cause there are no people.

In terms of gold it feels like they can improve the gold reward cause as u say is nearly nothing (things cost tons of gs) as well as the exp for lvling up faster

[Insert Name Here]

lol ever since Daily challenge started I never got above 1G reward.

EVER since it started. (1 week of really bad RNG and no GOLD every day)

didn't read all what OP said just saw that and had to comment.

I don't remember how long it's been since DC started but you only had to

do it for 4 weeks and comparing to me it's GG lol

peace out.

[CrimsonKitsune]

I feel so bad for you bro thats nothing to laugh about that shows how much people are hurting in this game I feel ya

[CrimsonDuskEU]

6v6 is non-gear equalized, and it's a good thing. Arena 1V1 and 3V3 is unbalanced especially of this gear-equalization. There's something wrong with balance when some classes outheal your dmg. Not being gear-equalized means more versality, means more interesting matchups, means customization, means freedom. Skill is still part of the game in PVP even without gear being equalized, I have personally as a 500AP crushed 700APs more than once. Power is meaningless without skill.

[CrimsonKitsune]

47 minutes ago, CrimsonDuskEU said:

6v6 is non-gear equalized, and it's a good thing. Arena 1V1 and 3V3 is unbalanced especially of this gear-equalization. There's something wrong with balance when some classes outheal your dmg. Not being gear-equalized means more versality, means more interesting matchups, means customization, means freedom. Skill is still part of the game in PVP even without gear being equalized, I have personally as a 500AP crushed 700APs more than once. Power is meaningless without skill.

Not by yourself you didn't thats for sure. This is just a runaround way of saying we like steam rolling new people and if you're lucky you will be on my team. Notice not once could you offer a good reason how equalizing will seriously impact your experience. 

[studioMagicalFox]

I agree that the item bidding system for boss loot has to go. There are many other types of systems that could replace it and all of them would a better choice. This type of mechanic pits players against each other in pve and it gives no reason for people to cooperate with each other. Forcing players to compete with each other over needed items makes the RNG worse and, I think, is creating the so called toxic community effect. It is not that the players don't want to get along and help others, it is that the game forces them into the opposite stance. Item bidding is one of the first things I would change about BnS if I had that power. It really has to go.

[Lunakitty]

19 minutes ago, studioMagicalFox said:

I agree that the item bidding system for boss loot has to go.

For some people this is the only source of income so it shouldn't go away. Without the bidding system I would probably never had gotten any HM skills that were worth more than 50-200g each.

[CrimsonKitsune]

2 hours ago, Lunakitty said:

For some people this is the only source of income so it shouldn't go away. Without the bidding system I would probably never had gotten any HM skills that were worth more than 50-200g each.

I dont know how thats a persons only source of income, you have dailies, marketplace and other gold making opportunities besides most of the drops are garbage I doubt you will be missing much.

[Lunakitty]

4 minutes ago, CrimsonKitsune said:

I dont know how thats a persons only source of income, you have dailies, marketplace and other gold making opportunities besides most of the drops are garbage I doubt you will be missing much.

Most of the time I didn't get anything good that is worthy that could even sell anything. I couldn't get materials to craft as each time I tried to go for soulstones I got assassinated by Crimsons. It was really a struggle at first and that actually was my only main income. Quests can be done once a day only and it gave so little at 400 AP since people kept leaving your parties. At some point my main income was the stinger bids people did in Avalance farm runs (after 500 AP).

[CrimsonKitsune]

I know that much so whats wrong in making rng or loot items given to everyone instead of the current way it is now

[studioMagicalFox]

9 hours ago, Lunakitty said:

For some people this is the only source of income so it shouldn't go away. Without the bidding system I would probably never had gotten any HM skills that were worth more than 50-200g each.

I do understand that the bidding system is an important way for you and all of us to acquire the expensive upgrades such as HM skills. I respect also that we need effective ways to farm the gold necessary to progress. I think, however, that the developers should provide better ways to do that other than putting us in competition with each other for it. Everyone has seen cases where a player bids up an item that another player/class needs for advancement just because they are counting on that player continuing to bid on it because they need it so badly. Yes it provides a gold source, but it does so at another's expense. This can lead to bad feelings by the player who essentially has to pay the other party members a kind of ransom to get their drop. Bad feelings vs the party members who she/he should be working together with and also perhaps vs. the game itself. This is not good for the long term health of our game. If the bidding system were to be changed, the developers should balance the loss of gold income by increasing the amount of gold rewarded for doing the dailies, decreasing gold cost for upgrade paths or both. The bidding mechanic might make sense in a pure pvp context where players are supposed to be in competition with each other but it undermines the foundation of what makes party/clan/raid based pve gameplay work to begin with.

[Lunakitty]

2 minutes ago, studioMagicalFox said:

I do understand that the bidding system is an important way for you and others to acquire the expensive upgrades such as HM skills. I respect also that we need effective ways to farm the gold necessary to progress. I think, however, that the developers should provide better ways to do that other than putting us in competition with each other for it. Everyone has seen cases where a player bids up an item that another player/class needs for advancement just because they are counting on that player continuing to bid on it because they need it so badly. Yes it provides a gold source, but it does so at another's expense. This can lead to bad feelings by the player who essentially has to pay the other party members a kind of ransom to get their drop. Bad feelings vs the party members who she/he should be working together with and also perhaps vs. the game itself. This is not good for the long term health of our game. If the bidding system were to be changed, the developers should balance the loss of gold income by increasing the amount of gold rewarded for doing the dailies, decreasing gold cost for upgrade paths or both. The bidding mechanic might make sense in a pure pvp context where players are supposed to be in competition with each other but it undermines the foundation of what makes party/clan/raid based pve gameplay work to begin with.

I do agree that the bidding system is double edged blade giving good thing and yet causing griefing. If there was a good way to bid like items that are class bound (weapons mainly) could be bidded only by that class. Though this brings another issue that there are people who need the weapons for salvaging into powders. Also that if everyone got the same loot it would crash the market possibly and no one could make income on certain items such as stingers as there would be overload of them.

[studioMagicalFox]

44 minutes ago, Lunakitty said:

I do agree that the bidding system is double edged blade giving good thing and yet causing griefing. If there was a good way to bid like items that are class bound (weapons mainly) could be bidded only by that class. Though this brings another issue that there are people who need the weapons for salvaging into powders. Also that if everyone got the same loot it would crash the market possibly and no one could make income on certain items such as stingers as there would be overload of them.

The point you are raising here is very true. It would not work well say for class specific items to be only obtainable by members of that class. There may be no party member matching the class of the item or the player whose class it matches may not need it. Salvaging items for crafting materials such as powders is a valid reason to want the item as well. There is nothing wrong with a player profiting by farming and marketing dropped items. It's important and healthy for the game's economy.  So what kind of item distribution mechanic would work that allows all player's a chance to get any item but does not promote the negative aspects that we have been discussing? Any player may need an item for different reasons. Different games have tried various approaches to this over the history of mmo's. Some systems were better than others but none were perfect. I did not play the game but I believe the way WoW did this was to let any player bid on an item specifying their bid as either 'Need' (They need the item for their character and were expected to make use of it if they won it), 'Greed' (they want the item to sell or for an alt or some other purpose), or 'Disenchant' (they want the item to disenchant for crafting materials). The bids were then weighted. Need would always win over Greed (I'm not sure how Disenchant was weighted). A dice roll would determine who got the item when more than one player's bid carried the same weight. Now do not get me wrong I am not necessarily advocating this WoW type system for BnS nor am I saying it is a perfect system without flaws. I'm just giving it as an example of how bidding could possibly work and cover the points mentioned above. Such a system still relies on a player say to be honest about if they actually 'Need' the item and of course this system was abused giving rise to a culture of so called 'Ninja Looter' type farmers (Ninja's would always 'Need' everything, vanishing with the loot after the drops were resolved). Players abusing any system tend to become shunned, but that does not stop the practice. Anyway, this system was basically a random decision about who got the drop with provisions for a player to indicate they really needed the item. The main difference between this system (and other similar ones) and our BnS bidding system is that only the player who got the drop profited in any  way. Bids were not monetary in nature. Three people want it? One of them will get it. If you did not get it better luck next time but everyone theoretically has a fair chance. The system is open to some kinds of abuse but any ill will coming from that abuse is directed at the single individual who is taking advantage of it. This is kind of the opposite of what we have in BnS now.

[CrimsonKitsune]

4 hours ago, studioMagicalFox said:

The point you are raising here is very true. It would not work well say for class specific items to be only obtainable by members of that class. There may be no party member matching the class of the item or the player whose class it matches may not need it. Salvaging items for crafting materials such as powders is a valid reason to want the item as well. There is nothing wrong with a player profiting by farming and marketing dropped items. It's important and healthy for the game's economy.  So what kind of item distribution mechanic would work that allows all player's a chance to get any item but does not promote the negative aspects that we have been discussing? Any player may need an item for different reasons. Different games have tried various approaches to this over the history of mmo's. Some systems were better than others but none were perfect. I did not play the game but I believe the way WoW did this was to let any player bid on an item specifying their bid as either 'Need' (They need the item for their character and were expected to make use of it if they won it), 'Greed' (they want the item to sell or for an alt or some other purpose), or 'Disenchant' (they want the item to disenchant for crafting materials). The bids were then weighted. Need would always win over Greed (I'm not sure how Disenchant was weighted). A dice roll would determine who got the item when more than one player's bid carried the same weight. Now do not get me wrong I am not necessarily advocating this WoW type system for BnS nor am I saying it is a perfect system without flaws. I'm just giving it as an example of how bidding could possibly work and cover the points mentioned above. Such a system still relies on a player say to be honest about if they actually 'Need' the item and of course this system was abused giving rise to a culture of so called 'Ninja Looter' type farmers (Ninja's would always 'Need' everything, vanishing with the loot after the drops were resolved). Players abusing any system tend to become shunned, but that does not stop the practice. Anyway, this system was basically a random decision about who got the drop with provisions for a player to indicate they really needed the item. The main difference between this system (and other similar ones) and our BnS bidding system is that only the player who got the drop profited in any  way. Bids were not monetary in nature. Three people want it? One of them will get it. If you did not get it better luck next time but everyone theoretically has a fair chance. The system is open to some kinds of abuse but any ill will coming from that abuse is directed at the single individual who is taking advantage of it. This is kind of the opposite of what we have in BnS now.

I love your idea it would be a viable alternative to what we have now