hm RMB needed for helix build ?

[Bim404]

I've done some test on dragoncall vs helix build, and i still do way more dps with dragoncall, i have dragoncall/helix hm skill, but not the rmb one (from asura) is it absolutely needed to make it better ?

On a 2 minute full dps on Mushin dummys, i was doin 18k with dragoncall, 16k with helix (using sb once). actually in true scorpio (so 20% dragoncall dmg, i guess it helps) and 685AP

But i keep seeing every wl using helix everywhere (only place i use it is infinite tower/pvp), so i guess i'm doin something wrong.

Can a good wl familiar with this post a full dps pve helix build  pls ? and rotation.

Or does it become better with legendary weapon ? (which i wasnt planning to make, too expensive)

[Ganhur]

I by no mean hold no authority toward this topic, all is said are fully based on experience alone.

 

HM Volley is absolutely not needed for Helix build, and far disadvantageous for dragoncall, especially when Bombardment can reduce DC cooldown much faster during Siphon. As for the other two skills from Asura Ember which are HM Bombardments, one is useful in pvp, the other (crit on grabbed target) will very possibly become useless once skill updates hit and give you a new attack skill to hit grabbed target.

 

The only thing useful with Asura Ember skill is HM Volley, which is viable for full dark build, and from the look of it, future updates seem to be biased toward this particular build and playstyle. From experience, full dark build, currently is no where as strong as Dragoncall or Helix/Bombard build. Since it's bit more ping reliant and very focus intensive. With future updates, full dark build may prove itself to be superior since it does not require debuff such as Target or Brand which are essential for other 2 WL's build.

 

Here is a representation of future dark build. Note that this person is using macro, but this is how you will spam your volley once you've gotten the necessary equipment.

 

 

 

 

HM Volley is not needed to play full dark build, but it does improve the play style as you will no longer need Wingstorm to cast Helix.

As for HM Bombardment, as mentioned above, one is useful for pvp (no focus on cc-ed target), the other is highly useless.

 

There's another HM AoE Bombardment which -20% focus on Target enemy. This can be fun with open world pvp, but for Tower and PvE, this is useless.

 

 

As for WLs using Helix, just use whichever fit your style. Someone suggest Helix and Bombardment has tiny bit higher dps, and that "tiny" bit does not bother me. Helix is more convenient than Dragoncall, but I still prefer DC most of the time. Depend on boss and team members, I would switch for full dark build. But other than that, I like the looks of Dragons flying than Helix.

[Whiteflashkevin]

Asura ember is more useful for the volley because it eliminates some of the reliance on crit for warlock and help making the rotation better + with the new update awakened rupture will be removed and replaced with awakened bombard and volley. bombard reduces dc by 3 sec and is instant while volley gives 3 orbs per hit. the difference between these 2 build is that one is very crit reliant while the other is more easy and less reliant cause you can easily start the rotation if it doesn't crit. If dragon call doesn't crit the whole dps is ruined while helix can easily be restarted with hongmoon volley. Dragoncall reliance on crit  will only lessen when hongmoon wingstorm tho T5F1 wingstorm doesn't have health steal which warlock really relies upon in long battles. hope they give it some.

[Drizzt Dudden]

Bombard+Helix build is indeed very crit reliant, but i have been using it for a long time, and now, with 59% crit chance i bearly have any dps gaps, when i am out of focus, but i still use non instant bombard from time to time. First of all note that i am using the left rapture tree, and gettin most of the focus from up there. My rotation is when using wingstorm v-4-f-4 spamming rmb when possible (i stop it only to use 4 or f), and without wingstorm rmb-rmb-rmb-f-4 (since i learned that there is literally no way i wont get crit on bombard after 3 attacks, so i can rapture, and the third rmb is usally non instatnt, cos the target buff from rapture is expired. But if u have better fps/ping than me, u can get rapture after second rmb already most of the times.) The biggest flow of this build is that there is like 10-15s gap, when u dont have wingstorm, and you wont get helix crit. Than u have to build up 3 orbs just from raptures, after bombard crits. But since i got beaful a week ago, skill reset helps to fill this gap quite a lot, even though it is random. And obviously the skill rotation for max dps is v-f(leech)-v-3-v-sb-v an so on. And remember to w8 untill all 3 hits from the wingstorm are used before u reset it, cos using 2 wingstorms at one time u make the dps gap bigger, and your burst is only slightly better. My dps with this build is more or less equal to FMs with the same stats as me (679AP over 59% crit chance both), and when we're going with random parties i literally dont remember when me or my clanmate FM got out dpsed.

[Bim404]

thx for the detailed rota, i will try this.

[adbe]

Both bombardment and HM volley are viable with helix, and each with their own strength.

bombardment is higher dps (10%ish) but your damage is loaded on wingstorm, if you get cced or can't damage boss while wingstorm is active or imprison/leech gets interrupted you are screwed, also if boss drops/immune to debuff (mushin/mast snakes being big problems) or you have to switch targets then you'll need to apply target again somehow

shadow rupture will (probably, lower wingstorm cd) be better next patch which also add chi issue, will take a lot of getting use to.

 

HM volley gives you a more consistent dps and ability to pick utility trees (shackle t5s1, wingstorm t3s2, imprison t3s2) without crippling dps, and better AOE and easier switching target. Next patch gets buffs as well with shadow rupture(lower wingstorm cd) and salvo (+2.5AP, so roughly 1k DPS) which will make dps closer to bombardment

[Dresmyr]

I would not use helix without HM 2 (fateful tome, all the way to the right) and/or HM volley (Asura ember and frozen stone). With both of these my helix build does significantly more DPS than my dragoncall build (haven't done logs, but kill times go down by about 10%). here is my helix build, dropped down to HM5 https://bnstree.com/WL/B13HaPtt, note the wingstorm is left side! that is alot of damage, both from the lower CD and the extra damage on targeted enemies. Middle wingstorm wont be better till we get high elemental damage (not just accessories! you need almost 400 shadow damage and 0 frost damage for it to cross over!)
 

[Morgwais]

On 16/8/2016 at 6:18 AM, Dresmyr said:

note the wingstorm is left side! that is alot of damage, both from the lower CD and the extra damage on targeted enemies. Middle wingstorm wont be better till we get high elemental damage (not just accessories! you need almost 400 shadow damage and 0 frost damage for it to cross over!)

Ignore this.
Shadow wingstorm does more dmg + you can facetank god with it.

[Dresmyr]

10 hours ago, Morgwais said:

Ignore this.
Shadow wingstorm does more dmg + you can facetank god with it.

note that shadow wingstorm does a 21 AP ratio over its 4 hits, frost wingstorm does a base of an 18 ratio, but EACH HIT does an additional 2 ratio if target is up, oh and it applies target for 2 seconds. so the minimal ratio for 3 hits of frost wingstorm is 22, but it does 24 if target is already up for the first it. It has has an 18 second CD resulting in smoother combos with the CD reduction from rmb

[Morgwais]

Wingstorm Tier 3 Form 2 

Deals 252 ~ 294 [21.00] shadow damage over 3 hits

 

Creates 3 Spectral Orbs per hit

Rupture, Mantra can be used per hit

Heals the user 25% of the damage dealt on critical hit

Heals the user an additional 25% of the damage dealt to Branded enemies on critical hit

Decreases the cooldown of Tether Blade by 2 sec per hit

 

Wingstorm Tier 3 Form 1 

Deals 216 ~ 252 [18.00] ice damage over 3 hits

Deals 24 ~ 28 [2.00] additional ice damage to Branded enemies

Creates 3 Spectral Orbs per hit

Rupture, Mantra can be used per hit

Marks enemies with Target for 2 sec

Decreases the cooldown of Tether Blade by 2 sec per hit

Try reading the description next time and stop posting misinformation.

[Demonical]

12 hours ago, Morgwais said:

Wingstorm Tier 3 Form 2 

Deals 252 ~ 294 [21.00] shadow damage over 3 hits

 

Creates 3 Spectral Orbs per hit

Rupture, Mantra can be used per hit

Heals the user 25% of the damage dealt on critical hit

Heals the user an additional 25% of the damage dealt to Branded enemies on critical hit

Decreases the cooldown of Tether Blade by 2 sec per hit

 

Wingstorm Tier 3 Form 1 

Deals 216 ~ 252 [18.00] ice damage over 3 hits

Deals 24 ~ 28 [2.00] additional ice damage to Branded enemies

Creates 3 Spectral Orbs per hit

Rupture, Mantra can be used per hit

Marks enemies with Target for 2 sec

Decreases the cooldown of Tether Blade by 2 sec per hit

Try reading the description next time and stop posting misinformation.

Hes acctualy right, Left Wingstorm outdpses Dark version, its the "Deals xx-xx- additional ice dmg to branded enemies" its applied on evry hit of wingstorm ( and since helix applies brand its almost always up ) wich increases Ice Wingstorms dmg over the Dark one, aka 21:00 AP ratio VS 18:00+2:00+2:00+2:00 = 24, and again with helix brand is almost always up so even if the first tick doesnt benefit from the added brand dmg the following always will making it 22 ap Ratio vs Dark 21 ap ratio, ice Wingstorm always wins in that regard sadly.

 

[Morgwais]

Well i'll be damned , just tested it and ice does more dmg . I always thought that the exrra 2.0 on branded is as a total , still the diference is quite small tho. So it's up to what you prefer , extra targering or heal. Once we get the awakening update this whole thing will be nothing since wingstorm is a just a filler , and you just chose based on utility. I still think that the extreme healing you get from dark outshines the small amount of extra dmg of ice.

[Demonical]

Still the lower CD on Ice wingstorm makes it outperform Dark by a high margin depending on length of fight, even when using Dark build to reset V faster, but Dark has the more utiliy but will never outperform it until you got lots of elemental dark gear.

[Dresmyr]

On 8/20/2016 at 7:14 AM, Demonical said:

Still the lower CD on Ice wingstorm makes it outperform Dark by a high margin depending on length of fight, even when using Dark build to reset V faster, but Dark has the more utiliy but will never outperform it until you got lots of elemental dark gear.

Since we arent even getting elemental accessories, I don't think you will be able to get enough shadow damage to out dps the frost side, ignoring the cooldown. At least until we get HM wingstorm, then Definately take shadow for helix build, that extra hit means more than higher damage, it means another helix too!

 

 

On 8/20/2016 at 6:38 AM, Morgwais said:

Well i'll be damned , just tested it and ice does more dmg . I always thought that the exrra 2.0 on branded is as a total , still the diference is quite small tho. So it's up to what you prefer , extra targering or heal. Once we get the awakening update this whole thing will be nothing since wingstorm is a just a filler , and you just chose based on utility. I still think that the extreme healing you get from dark outshines the small amount of extra dmg of ice.

While the healing is definately a big deal when you get injured, I find good timing on the block, f (iframe version), and SS is typically enough healing except for things like tanking 2 asura poison stacks, OWPvP and ToI however, definately shadow build. Besides I posted max DPS build, not a utility build. I only swap to shadow wingstorm for PvP/ToI and masts sisters, otherwise my amethyst and potions keep me up, along with the 5% heal on Z and 3% per iframe on ss.