Stop this relentless spawn-kill bashing

[Aviarn]

Since yesterday I went into this game, and I absolutely liked playing it. After a few hours I finally got an outfit that I absolutely liked to wear...

 

...but one thing has started to legitimately *cricket* me off, and that is that loads and loads of people are just constantly bashing people by spawn-killing them over and over. It even came to such a point that it took 30 MINUTES to actually HAND IN a quest.

 

Appearantly the outfit that I was wearing was a "war outfit". But something really doesn't please me; the way how people cope with this. Never do I actually get pked anywhere outside the spawn, all my deaths were horribly cheap and defenseless deaths because I was stuck in a loading screen as they killed me AGAIN, time over time.

 

"Take off your gear." this shouldn't be a solution! The first 2 non-starter customisations we get introduced to are war-outfits straight off the bat, and doubtlessly many people fall in love with the dark/fire or white/blue set as soon as they tried it on. As well, just because you're having an opposing war gear on, is not a reason to degrade your attitude so low to constantly bash somebody, preventing them from doing ANYTHING at all.

 

Solutions? I know a few;

- 1, instead of "surrender", give us a truce period of 30 seconds when we recently died of a Player fight. We can use this truce period (without being forced to reload AGAIN) to either re-gear, or run away. (Truce as in; you can't be attacked, nor attack others. For 30 seconds, your war gear behaves like normal gear.)

- 2, create a safezone around respawn locations, to prevent people being able to camp at spawn points. Around 25m radius round the spawn area should be applicable.

- 3, create pure-cosmetic versions of the war gear. Respectively, in an RPG, there is an element of fashion-gaming. And the least thing you should do, is to punish your players for wearing something they LIKE to wear.

 

This game had been really on my good side, but the amount of bashing/spawnkilling when all I'm trying to do is actually figuring out the game, is just a sad act to see. Especially when those people are instakilling you while you load (a.k.a, a defenseless finish-off.)

[Zel]

It's red it's dead.

 

Anyways, you SHOULD be invincible until you move upon respawn or until 30s has passed as a grace period. This was the Aion method and it worked great. Safezone however were what killed PvP entirely in 4.0 when they were introduced. Safezones are the most cancerous pieces of garbage ever introduced because it promotes guard humping and zoning to a new level. It literally lead to the death of OW PvP in Aion until they "removed" it.

[StalowaKura]

If you are wearing faction outfit deal with it that you will be killed even at respawn zone. Level etc does not matter. This is war and on war you can not cry for some immunity etc.  You can also stop doing faction quests it will solve your problem.

[Zeream]

I'd say your suggestions are spot on, although sometimes 30 seconds isn't even as some computers can be slow.

 

Most faction combat areas that involve turning in faction quests aren't actually spawn killable, since they are either put up high and or have god-tier guards on them.  However, some areas are indeed designed very badly against counteracting spawnkills.

 

Also Zel has a fair point about safe zones.  I've thought about this as well, and the main difficulty when turning in quests is that you can't talk to the NPC long enough without being interrupted.  My suggestion is that when you talk to one of these NPCs you're temporarily deflagged until you turn the quest in.  There is an even simpler solution though: just to have the faction quests able to be turned in remotely like all the other daily quests.

 

Also about safe zones; nothing stops you from taking off your outfit, running on top of a house, and putting it back on.  Not only does it get you to a "safe zone" but it also allows you to get your bearings and maybe counter-ambush.  Its what I do all the time when I'm ambushed, and it works fine.  Sure its a bit humbling but lets be realistic, its unlikely that NCSoft will give us any major changes like this.

 

The best bet is just to make faction quests to be able to turn in remotely.  Also, there should be an anti-ganking feature (aka level limits on open world PvP engagement), because in no game ever made has ganking ever positively contributed to the game.  Lvl 45s don't like being attacked by annoying low levels that they can kill instantly, and low levels don't like getting smashed without being able to put up any resistance.

[Aviarn]

14 hours ago, StalowaKura said:

If you are wearing faction outfit deal with it that you will be killed even at respawn zone. Level etc does not matter. This is war and on war you can not cry for some immunity etc.  You can also stop doing faction quests it will solve your problem.

That's still no sufficient reason to degrade yourself and bash the fun out of other players.

[Alodapos]

You're wearing an "outfit" who's ONLY REASON of existence is to flag you for PvP
You don't want to do PvP?  Then remove the outfit and stop crying in the forums

[Aviarn]

That's not true. Outfits also have cosmetical purposes, and on top of that the outfits are tied to a quest reward AND storyline that you're following. There most definetly is a reason to wear the armour without being associated to PvP.

 

And still, you haven't even stated a single reason why you SHOULD disrupt somebody from following the game. Why you SHOULD bash their fun in the game into the ground. Why you SHOULD "gank" somebody as an extremely overlevelled player. Or why you SHOULD kill them over, and over, and over, untill they finally surrender because an immature player is disturbing them. What gain is there, beside a one-time achievement, to do that? For anyone who joins the game, it'll make the community look unmanaged, immature, how other people are allowed to crush any little fun they have within the very first hour(s) of a new MMORPG.

 

Seeing how the war gear also influences the storyline, the war gear cannot be seen as an "optional" wardarobe item, because there are occasions you HAVE to wear it. And seeing how early this is already brought into the game (you already get this in Bamboo Village), there is no excuse of an "special zone". There already is one far-out for the hard-core pvpers.

[Suna]

if somebody kill you over and over again, you can use number 3 resspawn and you ress yourself without outfit.

[Aviarn]

I know of that option. But that shouldn't even be the solution to it. People shouldn't bash / spawnkill in first place, that's just horrible in any form of PvP.

[Tyler Dirtyn]

1 person asking the game be changed because they don't like it isn't "offering advice". What you are effectively doing is explaining why you don't like the game you are complaining about. 

 

If you actually read this thread there are a lot of great suggestions, none of them involve "please reprogram the game for Aviarn because they don't like it". When you look at it like that you will seem ridiculous and unreasonable.

On 3/20/2016 at 10:43 AM, Aviarn said:

I know of that option. But that shouldn't even be the solution to it. People shouldn't bash / spawnkill in first place, that's just horrible in any form of PvP.

Spawn killing has been a thing since atari. Good luck

[piinkstrawberii]

i mean one person against 3 or 4? its coo its coo... -_-;; 

[Nutrient]

There are a few cosmetic items that don't flag you for PvP but most do. If you don't want to PvP, take it off.

[Aviarn]

Tyler, I know that this has been quite a common meta. But that doesn't take away that it's blatantly annoying. Spawnkilling, stalking, snare-rushing, instakilling, all are pretty much the backlash of what PvP has. And with every big community, comes people that couldn't care less for a "fair" fight and just resort to it for some quick kills, or trolling when it has no other gain.

 

 

Nutrient, as a Free-To-Play, it's not that easy to get some of those cosmetics. But albeit that, the Crimson Legion outfit has really caught my liking because both of the shape (partially sleeveless), the colour pattern and the fact that it doesn't cause my hair to no-clip through it.

 

Though I did see another set of my liking, but I'll need to save up some Gold then to purchase HMCoins (which is gonna take a while on lvl 29...)

[Tyler Dirtyn]

On 3/24/2016 at 5:16 AM, Aviarn said:

Tyler, I know that this has been quite a common meta. But that doesn't take away that it's blatantly annoying. Spawnkilling, stalking, snare-rushing, instakilling, all are pretty much the backlash of what PvP has. And with every big community, comes people that couldn't care less for a "fair" fight and just resort to it for some quick kills, or trolling when it has no other gain.

 

 

Nutrient, as a Free-To-Play, it's not that easy to get some of those cosmetics. But albeit that, the Crimson Legion outfit has really caught my liking because both of the shape (partially sleeveless), the colour pattern and the fact that it doesn't cause my hair to no-clip through it.

 

Though I did see another set of my liking, but I'll need to save up some Gold then to purchase HMCoins (which is gonna take a while on lvl 29...)

No one wants a fair fight in PVP. The context of this game is that a war is going on. There is no such thing as a fair fight in war or PVP or games, period. If you want fair then stick to duels, PVP isn't designed around a "fair 1v1 scenario". 

[epete05]

If you want carebears, go play eve and sit in a high sec mining belt for 12 hours a day.  Use your imagination for the jiggles and the costumes.

[Mishi]

On 3/20/2016 at 11:43 AM, Aviarn said:

I know of that option. But that shouldn't even be the solution to it. People shouldn't bash / spawnkill in first place, that's just horrible in any form of PvP.

And it'll happen even with safe zones, and any "respawn timers" to prevent being hit. 

 

There will always be people willing to "camp" at safe zones, or camp at respawn waiting for players to move a millimeter.

It happens in many MMO's. Safe zones, and respawn buffs don't stop spawn killing. They only prevent it for a short time, then it happens again and people cry again. (Either because as soon as they move they get killed, or as soon as they leave a safe zone they get killed.)

 

That's why the best option is to hit the #3 button and respawn without a faction dobok on. 

[Aviarn]

@Tyler Dirtyn no offense, but the way you're saying that, it sounds like it's coming straightly from the person who already has the upper hand on an unfair battle. PvP has to be balanced in a way, and balance isn't just with appropriate class matching, but also with the grounds of PvP availability. If there is an occasion where somebody fights someone else who is not even able to retaliate, that outweighs the balance. The problem is because there is a delay between respawning server-side, and actually seeing that you have respawned. It's about three to five seconds, which is enough for a WL or Destroyer to cc and kill you with no chance of proper retaliation. If you like unfair PvP battles, then that's fine. But I have yet to see anybody saying that from who isn't on the upperhand.

 

Also, "war themed"? Maybe, maybe not. There are already war-assigned areas. The Scar at the Cinderlands, and the field at Blackwyrm, they are all PvP designated areas. Those areas are for war, the others are for simple open-world PvP. And again, just the fact that you can kill somebody, is not a reason to drop yourself to such an immature grade, whilst proceeding to spawnkill, target, stalk, herass or any of those sorts. They may be common on a certain meta, but that most certainly does not prove they are great or welcomed.

 

 

 

@epete05 we are talking here about PvP on B&S. Don't bother hauling in other games to form as excuse.

 

 

 

@Mishi I see your point yes. Though, for somebody that isn't interested in an outbalanced fight (for example, that there's a 36 lurking over you while you're only 30.). The problem B&S has, as explained above, is that you constantly need to reload the game when you die. There is a 3 to 5 second gap between respawning, and actually being able to do something (3 second given if you have B&S installed on an SSD drive.). Personally, I have never understood why you constantly need to reload over and over, while you literally died 5 meters away from your spawnpoint. Maybe as an alternative solution, you could decide your own Respawn point as long it's within the map region?

 

I have seen many MMO's take open-world PvP much differently. They use safezones at, for example, market places and personal storage. Those places are their respawn points too, and if they'dd like, they can simply teleport undisturbedly to another location. When somebody was engaged in combat, they will stay within combat "stance" (and will be able to be attacked back by only their original target) for 10 seconds.

[Aquel]

Aviarn,

 

There are countless people in every game that allows for PVP content that will grief just to do it.  In BnS, there is no benefit for them killing you at the spawn point, they do it to do it.  Posting on the forums will only frustrate you more.  They will ruin your fun, because that is what is fun to them and then they will say that you have no right to take their fun away either.  Best advice is to not come to the forums to post, it will do nothing to change the current situation.

[Nutrient]

On 3/30/2016 at 8:50 AM, Aviarn said:

I have seen many MMO's take open-world PvP much differently. They use safezones at, for example, market places and personal storage. Those places are their respawn points too, and if they'dd like, they can simply teleport undisturbedly to another location. When somebody was engaged in combat, they will stay within combat "stance" (and will be able to be attacked back by only their original target) for 10 seconds.

Upon defeat, you can always surrender (3). If a player is refusing to surrender (3) and keeps respawning (4), that means he or she wants to continue to fight - spawn killed or not. Blade & Soul doesn't really go easy on players with toaster computers! You can always surrender (3), spawn safely, then put your PvP costume back whenever you're ready to battle...

 

Lastly, the safe-zone areas also have a potential for abuse too. I remember when I played TERA, people would safe-zone camp, going in and out as they please. No system is perfect and since it's OWPvP, it can never be truly EQUAL (i.e. gear, level, popularity of factions, etc).

[Lateral]

lol at ppl going like "this is war". No one's bare (real) existence is at risk here that justifies doing everything to survive. In real war you don't sit behind a screen and press revive when you die. It's a game, not war. It's supposed to be fun. So play fair for everyone to have fun.

 

And even in real war there are rules (like Geneva Conventions).

[MichelleZhivago]

Thank you, Lateral. This is a game. Yes, the object is to "win" although as far as I know there will be NO end state, no final boss, so winning is subjective. This is certainly not war, in which the ends or consequences can sometimes justify the means. Just driving away potential players. Spawn-camping and bullying Lowbies may be fun to some but once those players leave, it will be much less so.