Why you think summoners are OP (Or the mistakes you are making)

[893467_1452550593]

20 minutes ago, Ghobe said:

I challenge you to hit gold as a BM.

Lol, I like how BM is barely mentioned in this thread. Everyone knows that BM doesn't even stand a chance no matter how good the player is. 

 

PS. I'm a BM and refuse to play any other class because they are either race locked or doesn't appeal to me. So I am questioning if I should even bother with this game seriously. 

 

Why is whenever a new mmo come out, I always pick the coolest looking class (IMO) and it happens to be the worst class for everything. 

[Ghobe]

1 minute ago, 893467_1452550593 said:

Lol, I like how BM is barely mentioned in this thread. Everyone knows that BM doesn't even stand a chance no matter how good the player is. 

sadfase :(

[Archaegeo]

Its true, BM's are easy unless they are very very good.  I would say that right now BM requires more player skill than kfm and that's not how its meant to be.

[PatchKid]

The only problem I have with summoner is that they are allowed to use CC while they themselves are CC'd.  No other class in the game has this power, and it basically breaks the balance in PvP.

 

You should not be able to issue commands to your pet while incapacitated.  Period.

[Enhance]

As a FM, I have positive winrate against summoners after learning their quirks, but still each match is exhausting and obnoxious. I like playing against assassins (no kidding) because each match seems more like a mindplay and skill test, not falling for counters, breaking the stealth, dodging flashbangs and daze kicks. Even destroyers, with their totally balanced justice burst - though very challenging (to me), still fun to play against. Against blade dancers it's a focus starving game, dodging and not getting caught in a grab without means to escape. And when I lose, I know exactly what I did wrong, where I failed to conserve my tab, where I fell for a counter or was impatient.

 

Against summoners, it's....

"oh please let him be bad" "grip the small thing and knock it unconscious! oh wait it's the summoner"

"he's in front of me, but I'm still targeting the cat behind? wat" "why am I so sloooow" "how are you still alive?"

"does your petal storm have no cooldown?!" "oh look, the cat's facesitting me again and my tab is still on cooldown from previous time"

"sunflowers? it's okay I didn't like having HP anyway" "dandelions are stupid"

 

In the end, if the summoner utilizes his abilities properly, I feel completely exhausted after two rounds. And when I lose, I just feel cheated. Even being CC chained and 100-0'd by a destroyer doesn't feel so bad.

[Archaegeo]

40 minutes ago, PatchKid said:

The only problem I have with summoner is that they are allowed to use CC while they themselves are CC'd.  No other class in the game has this power, and it basically breaks the balance in PvP.

 

You should not be able to issue commands to your pet while incapacitated.  Period.

Yes, but you can 100% cc both at the same time if you are clever because the pet is either following you or the summoner

 

[PatchKid]

3 minutes ago, Archaegeo said:

Yes, but you can 100% cc both at the same time if you are clever because the pet is either following you or the summoner

 

 

This is a very incorrect statement.  There are dozens of scenarios where the pet is not near the summoner.

 

1. Pet is kneeling and healing or whatever it does

2. Pet got CC'd because of TAB break or mis-target

3. Summoner used F escape and was immediately charged while pet is still animating it's attack

4. AI for pet is dumb and it doesn't move fluidly

 

Need I go on?  The point isn't that I can't always CC the pet and the summoner at the same time.  Not to mention that 50% of my CCs are single-target, so there's also that fact.  The problem is that the summoner should not be able to issue commands while incapacitated.  That's it.  Change this one single element, and all their other ezmode bullshit is fine.  Tons of immunities, massive healing, amazing countering, invisibility, having 2 vs 1 advantage, grapple ability that allows them to do insane burst --- whatever.  It's nothing more impressive than any other single class...

 

The fact that you can control your pet while you are no longer in control of yourself is broken and demonstrates unimaginative game design.

[Bcl]

1 hour ago, Ghobe said:

I challenge you to hit gold as a BM.

i

 

58 minutes ago, PatchKid said:

The only problem I have with summoner is that they are allowed to use CC while they themselves are CC'd.  No other class in the game has this power, and it basically breaks the balance in PvP.

 

You should not be able to issue commands to your pet while incapacitated.  Period.

sm can't do stun stun and again stun.classes who know how to take advantage of his stun lock can burst at least 70% of sm life..so please learn your class.

here pvp is way more diferent like others mmo,here you need to wait or make your oponent to do a mistake.

people forget something also,other classes are very very depended of combos and because of the crap ping and lag spike they are not able to doit right.its happening to me also.

as are now the servers with the lag problems,like i connect to africa i doubt that i will stay longer to see how you will cry when warlock will be relleased

[Figure]

By the time you are able to setup any abilities vs them you're already out of health. a lot of summoner damage is unavoidable so unless youre an assassin you will surely die before the time runs out unless you kill them first

[Bennive]

Why is it op? I got the feeling that every my win against the summoner is made after tearing my ass off then sewing it back with barbed wire just to realise 2nd roung of this torment is coming up. 
When loss is just "i used wrong escape or used it too rashly just to die under the cat" . 
Playing as assasin. I know how to deal with flower, I use my Q to get free stealth, I sleep the cat for the opportynity of dealing a bit of damage to the summoner, I heal up with my C while being assaulted by all these different dots, and I rarely use my TAB if not under the cat. ALL it takes to loose - one mistake. When I win by score my score is LITERALLY two-three times higher than that of SM. Although it doesnt's happen very often.

I don't mind summoners being op. Really. But every time i think about amount of skill needed to play at decent level and all the shit i will have to do to beat another one. it is just *cricket*ing unfair. 

And what is this skill? A LOT of time when countering projectilse I appear behind summoner and instantly fall over. Out of stealth, of course. Countercounter? 

[PatchKid]

17 minutes ago, Bcl said:

sm can't do stun stun and again stun.classes who know how to take advantage of his stun lock can burst at least 70% of sm life..so please learn your class.

This is completely out of context.  Summoners have plenty of escape mechanics without abusing pet CC, great invuln options, and amazing damage potential.  The fact that they can control their pet while not in control of their own character is broken.

 

TBH - my class is pretty damn good against summoners.  I am probably 50/50 against them myself as a KFM, but I'm not great.  If I were great, I'd probably be stomping them a lot more often.  That's primarily because KFM has a great counter-play mechanic that does wonders when facing summoners.  In the end, the only problem I see with the class is their ability to not suffer the same disadvantage every other class suffers when crowd controlled.  All abilities should be disabled, including pet abilities.

[Archaegeo]

Summoners do not have a ton of escapes, its why destroyers are our #1 nemesis because we cannot keep distance from them, 

 

And why a good KFM blows for us because we get stunlocked 100-0.

 

We have some escapes, but if we use them poorly, we are *cricket*ed.  We do not have Q and E escapes, we have SS to make distance, and dandelion if he its it properly.  That's about it for escapes.

[Krae]

No point in arguing. Summoners are broken, and needs to get nerfed to shit.

[Archaegeo]

Ahh, that helps devs a lot, regardless of the fact of how not popular they are in KR, you list the great data point of "Broken" and the repair steps of "nerfed to shit"

[Inui]

i know all of this and they just out heal thanks for information

[Altonat]

4 hours ago, Archaegeo said:

Edit 2:

This post is really meant to be helpful and show you some of the ways you can be better against a little understood class (if you don't play it).

 

Considering your attitude isn't exactly great right from the get go, I seriously doubt the post is meant to be helpful. Rather it's being condescending to anyone who disagrees with you, while in the guise of being helpful.

 

Obviously every class has it's weaknesses, summoners included. It's a case of whether those weaknesses are enough to say the class is balanced. Cherry picking things you think constitute as its weakness then telling people they're dumb for not noticing the same things you did does not make the class balanced.

[Kensho1996]

and HOW the heck do you deal with the roots as a KFM .. same issue goes with the FMs .. you can't break it so you get to stand still while the snipe you ..

 

THEN there is the tiny assed hit box then ALL lyn now have as they are all made as small as possible .. the fact that the lyn get such a small hit box is making it even harder to deal with these classes that have 1 or 2 abilities that CC and make players lose control off 1 or 2 easy attacks as well .. you clear your releases in a few seconds

[jacktheripper]

4 hours ago, dragoshan said:

Calling noobs others, while playing a summoner is just bad taste.

Do you know what is bad taste

not realising that its your mistake and not the class your fighting also have you seen plat summoners? it does take skill every class does you like most mmmorpg gamers blame the one your fighting rather then yourself get better

[Archaegeo]

5 minutes ago, Kensho1996 said:

and HOW the heck do you deal with the roots as a KFM .. same issue goes with the FMs .. you can't break it so you get to stand still while the snipe you ..

 

THEN there is the tiny assed hit box then ALL lyn now have as they are all made as small as possible .. the fact that the lyn get such a small hit box is making it even harder to deal with these classes that have 1 or 2 abilities that CC and make players lose control off 1 or 2 easy attacks as well .. you clear your releases in a few seconds

All players have the same size hitbox.  Arena is equalized that way

[Roxefeller]

Fun fact: Class balance is not based on whiny low-tier players bitching about balance on the forums. Class balance is based on the performance of top tier players in tournaments. NCwest is strictly adhering to the balance patches from KR. There is nothing in between. Deal with what is and what will be. It is a plan already set in motion. If you can't deal with it. Move on to a new game.

[PatchKid]

27 minutes ago, Kensho1996 said:

and HOW the heck do you deal with the roots as a KFM .. same issue goes with the FMs .. you can't break it so you get to stand still while the snipe you ..

 

THEN there is the tiny assed hit box then ALL lyn now have as they are all made as small as possible .. the fact that the lyn get such a small hit box is making it even harder to deal with these classes that have 1 or 2 abilities that CC and make players lose control off 1 or 2 easy attacks as well .. you clear your releases in a few seconds

 

This is actually not a problem for KFM.  KFM might have the most gap closers.

 

Couple tips for KFM vs Summ.

 

#1. Don't put any points into SS.  It doubles the CD.  SS is your root break.  With 1 point in SS it takes the CD from 9 seconds to 18 seconds for a 50% speed boost after use, which is great vs some opponents (like BD/Dest), but a detriment vs ranged opponents specifically.

#2. Put 3 points into Avenging Fist.  This lets you RMB after a counter that will remove all movement impairments including FM stacks of frost (only need the 3pts for FMs, 1 point usually works fine vs Summs).

#3. For FM it might be a good idea to not spec the slam knock-up (TAB) feature as you will have a 6s CD gap closer for after their stun break or grip + throw.  For Summoners, I actually like the 1min CD ability because it can mess up both cat + summoner

#4. If you're having a latency problem with summs, spec into 3 (leg sweep) to add a snare effect.  This will help you keep within 3m range so you can Q/E them more easily.

#5. Use Q or E once and face the pet who is always on your ass to get 6 second dodge to basically everything the summoner will use at you, and +100% speed boost.

 

The above is the primary reasons that KFM is one of the best counters to Summoner.  Also, very important to change your TAB escape to break grapples instead of stuns against a summoner because they do not use stuns (dazes and grapple + grab).  This will let you break free from the pet pinning you to the ground and then getting burst by them.  For every other opponent you will want TAB escape to break stuns.

[Archaegeo]

Excellent replay Patchkid.

 

Just demonstrated the difference between someone who knows the game and classes and someone who complains.

 

A lot of the time people don't even change their loadout based on who they are fighting, they just go with one spec beats all and pray.

 

[Balmafra]

5 hours ago, dragoshan said:

If the summoner is smart enough to jerk off behind his cat, the targeting system will *cricket* you up most of the time. And summoners dish out potent damage, by the time i get close to him, i'm almost dead.

True, its my issue and i'm probably just bad against them.

But they are such a chore to fight against, i mostly dont bother.

Its fun for summoner, hell for me. I just usualy go 'take my game'.

Let's be honest here. The cat runs slow as *cricket*. If the cat over extends to get to you and you run towards the summoner, it takes a while to reach you without some help/skill.

[Kensho1996]

1 hour ago, Archaegeo said:

All players have the same size hitbox.  Arena is equalized that way

THEY might say this but I have my doubts ... IF you use a close up camera locked on the small players you are all but looking at your feet ..

 

NOT calling you a liar BUT it just doesn't seem this way

[Raiyze]

But no one mentions their ridiculous heal that has no counter-play whatsoever? Or how they have so many different defensive methods? Or how they're incredibly easy to use AND incredibly strong?