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Why you think summoners are OP (Or the mistakes you are making)


Archaegeo

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1)  You hit the dandelion.   No other class has such a blatant counter/iframe alert save maybe the sin when they do their little dance move.  Smart players I've encountered pause for 2 sec and go "Oh look, a dandelion, isn't that nice" and then when it goes away, pound me into the ground.  Don't hit the dandelion.  It puts us in stealth, with reduced damage and resist damage and extra skills and extra skill effects and lets us get distance and regain focus for 6 seconds, that's an eternity.

 

2) You unload on us when we have a little blue glow around us.  That's the X key.  If our pet is alive and we use it, we get 5 seconds or 5 hits of iframes.  HUGE, but again, just pause, or use LMBs to drain on it.

 

3) You hit the pet when it is crouched.  The pet takes 90% less damage AND heals when crouched.  Up to 8 seconds.  You are unloading the world healing the pet.  Voila, it gets up and goes back to work.

 

4) And some of you, the real baddies, hit the dandelion and then let us resummon our cat.  Unbelievable.  You can see through stealth, you just have to learn to look for it.  Stay close so they cant plop down and resummon.  It takes 5 seconds to resummon the cat and starting the resummon unstealths us.  Yet people still do it.

 

5) Sunflower.  Yes, this is a big hit, but its a focus eater, and it has limited range and a narrow beam.  (Hell, in pve It doesn't even work if there is a difference in Z positions of the target and the caster).  Smart summoners will save it for when you are dazed, stunned, rooted, or just too badly positioned to move out of it.  IN 3v3 its devastating as an assist attack.  Low ability summoners will unload with it, popping off 3-5 in a row.  Iframe those and go on your merry way.  Smart summoners use them tactically and don't run out of focus, because without focus we cant even dandelion.

 

6)  If you manage to knock out the cat, good on you.  Now hope we aren't smart enough to stand on top of it for you to wake it back up.

 

Just food for thought.  Because every post I see about summoners being OP never says why the poster has difficulty with them, it just screams OP, NERF!

 

Edit:

As a side note Destroyers are our biggest challenge due to our inability to keep distance if they don't hit the dandelion. After that a good FM is a nightmare because we get frozen and cant turn to aim.  Finally a well played KFM (luckily not many) and stun and roflstomp us into the ground, but I encounter very few of them.

 

Edit 2:

This post is really meant to be helpful and show you some of the ways you can be better against a little understood class (if you don't play it).

 

Edit 3:

Another issue is that 9 out of 10 people who scream about summoner being broken have never either bothered to play one to learn the class and its mechanics and weaknesses, or have never bothered to spar with one in a controlled setting (i.e. "Ok, now do that dandelion combo thing" etc).  Again, they just want to rush in and win.  Good players love encountering a FOTM summoner because its an easy win for them because the FOTM guys don't know the class well enough to be really dangerous if the stupid stuff doesn't work.

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Because it doesn't matter.  They will still cry and scream for nerf because they have been trained by previous MMO's that DPS is all that matters, and that if they go in guns blazing then they must win.

 

So they pick the highest dps class they can find and then are devastated when they get roflstomped.

 

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Pal fighting against a summoner its a 2v1 why ? becasue you can use your cat even when you are stuned or dazzeled... oh wait the cat can interupt even air combo yeah this is fair...

If some1 caught oyu in a combo and ? why evade cat knockdown oh yeah its just 15 sec CD yeah this is fair ....

No my friend this is a joke.

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Our cat has almost all of our CC, and a lot of our damage and even one of our interrupts.  Its not 2v1, its just a different way to give abilities.

 

If you wanted to get rid of the cat, then sins lose stealth, bms lose block, dest/bd lose spin, fm loses freeze, etc.

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1 minute ago, dragoshan said:

Good and sound advices, thanks.

But when fighting a summoner, all I see are sunflowers and daisies and most of the time I cant tell appart the cat from its master. Not to mention some summoners make the character so tiny you can barely target it.

Dandelion is easy to spot, don't hit it.

 

Sunflowers use up a lot of focus, so do other classes big dps hits.

 

And everyones hitbox is the same size (plus most of us don't want to be Lyns anyway, and hate out cat)

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If the summoner is smart enough to jerk off behind his cat, the targeting system will *cricket* you up most of the time. And summoners dish out potent damage, by the time i get close to him, i'm almost dead.

True, its my issue and i'm probably just bad against them.

But they are such a chore to fight against, i mostly dont bother.

Its fun for summoner, hell for me. I just usualy go 'take my game'.

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the first post explain all the weak points of summoner,if you are not able to understand them you should all leave B&S its not for you.

you get used from the others mmo where bang bang and dead,wich is the way of noobs

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41 minutes ago, Archaegeo said:

1)  You hit the dandelion.   No other class has such a blatant counter/iframe alert save maybe the sin when they do their little dance move.  Smart players I've encountered pause for 2 sec and go "Oh look, a dandelion, isn't that nice" and then when it goes away, pound me into the ground.  Don't hit the dandelion.  It puts us in stealth, with reduced damage and resist damage and extra skills and extra skill effects and lets us get distance and regain focus for 6 seconds, that's an eternity.

 

2) You unload on us when we have a little blue glow around us.  That's the X key.  If our pet is alive and we use it, we get 5 seconds or 5 hits of iframes.  HUGE, but again, just pause, or use LMBs to drain on it.

I knew about the rest but I've had a summoner still go stealth after I've seen the dandelion put away...is that something else? Or is this just yet another visual glitch that screws me?

 

As for point 2, I've never seen this blue glow? I've seen a white bubble thing? Is that what you're talking about? Have I gone color blind?

 

EDIT: Also one more thing, what's your rating and how many BMs have you lost to?

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Pale blue, maybe white, bubble around them.

 

The stealth thing without hitting dandelion is an advanced technique called Enhanced Seed Shroud.  The dandelion goes up and they immediately hit F again, gives 1 sec of invis UNLESS they resist damage during that 1 sec, then they still get full 6 sec.  Very advanced and most guys cant pull it off timing wise.

 

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"Edit 3:

Another issue is that 9 out of 10 people who scream about summoner being broken have never either bothered to play one to learn the class and its mechanics and weaknesses"


But do you play all the other classes? You can't expect others to do that especially when you've probably not done the same.
The fact in the matter is that summoner is a strong class. For casual players they will always be a difficult fight because of the way they work. They're also very unfun to play against.

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35 minutes ago, Archaegeo said:

1)  You hit the dandelion.   No other class has such a blatant counter/iframe alert save maybe the sin when they do their little dance move.  Smart players I've encountered pause for 2 sec and go "Oh look, a dandelion, isn't that nice" and then when it goes away, pound me into the ground.  Don't hit the dandelion.  It puts us in stealth, with reduced damage and resist damage and extra skills and extra skill effects and lets us get distance and regain focus for 6 seconds, that's an eternity.

 

 Because you can't use it. You can easily dandelion incoming spell, you can hit it luckily just miliseconds before opponent uses skill (human reaction of 200-250ms won't let him NOT attack) etc. I don't see a problem getting into stealth at all. Sometimes I fail. It's a good thing it has such a low CD, they can't even punish me.

 

 

2) You unload on us when we have a little blue glow around us.  That's the X key.  If our pet is alive and we use it, we get 5 seconds or 5 hits of iframes.  HUGE, but again, just pause, or use LMBs to drain on it.

 

Yeah, let's just pull back all skills we used because our eyes finally saw your X key. Oh, we were watching our cooldowns for a milisecond? Too bad.

 

 

4) And some of you, the real baddies, hit the dandelion and then let us resummon our cat.  Unbelievable.  You can see through stealth, you just have to learn to look for it.  Stay close so they cant plop down and resummon.  It takes 5 seconds to resummon the cat and starting the resummon unstealths us.  Yet people still do it.

 

Matter of skill of scummoner, not opponent's. I doubt you are high rank. Seeing how most of things you listed are just stupid and ignorant you probably get wrecked at silver and decided to say "Summoners are not OP, my win/lose is negative!!!"

 

5) Sunflower.  Yes, this is a big hit, but its a focus eater, and it has limited range and a narrow beam.  (Hell, in pve It doesn't even work if there is a difference in Z positions of the target and the caster).  Smart summoners will save it for when you are dazed, stunned, rooted, or just too badly positioned to move out of it.  IN 3v3 its devastating as an assist attack.  Low ability summoners will unload with it, popping off 3-5 in a row.  Iframe those and go on your merry way.  Smart summoners use them tactically and don't run out of focus, because without focus we cant even dandelion.

 

Lol, 2x10, 3 focus? Doom'n'bloom regains chi, you can use it on pinned down enemy for multiple SS, thus "range" and "narrow" doesn't matter (it has insane range and beam but w/e, silver scrub can't aim it apparently)

 

6)  If you manage to knock out the cat, good on you.  Now hope we aren't smart enough to stand on top of it for you to wake it back up.

 

Oh I love those scummoners that think they are smart by doing it. Saves me all the work. Thank you for doing it.

 

 

Just food for thought.  Because every post I see about summoners being OP never says why the poster has difficulty with them, it just screams OP, NERF!

 

What do I complain about?

 

1. Healing

2. Cat tanks in PvE

3. Faceroll in PvE

4. Crazy dmg of sunflower, focus isn't an issue if specced right

5. Dandelion making scummoners go into stealth as often as my Sin. Shit, when I pvp on my scummoner I tend to just send my cat out for kill and just wait it out and stealth if necessary and I have a bad matchup. Never lost on points. I stealth more often than I do on my sin.

6. HP management of scummoners is OP. Most of my wins on scummoner (I don't win everything, keep in mind) end with me still being over 80% hp.

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You are griping about summoner in pve?  Someone elses enjoyment of the game makes you sad? 

 

Please do not let others define your happiness, its a bad way to live.

 

And, after your ugly reply, I just wanted to point out that my original post is meant for those not as brilliant and awesome as you yourself must be.

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The summoner is strong, speaking as somebody who has looked into all of their skills and played one myself to get a better understanding of the class (purely for PvPing them)

 

The summoner is strong, in terms of raw power they just outdo other classes with sheer numbers. High damage, High healing etc etc.

 

But onto some of the skills, about the dandelion: some people's guard break skills will still trigger stealth when used on summoners (which is hell for assassin because they'll be mid combo, press rmb to break your dandelion guard and end up giving you stealth) Kind of cheese, gives them free stealths.

 

There's also a tab glitch where people cannot use tab escapes to get out of cat grapple even when off cooldown(it's not on cooldown but the skill is greyed out), I've only ever had this with summoners.

 

furthermore, any half decent summoner can resummon the cat by baiting out an SS and then abusing their multitude of snares.

 

And a quick tip to everyone who has a hard time with summoners: using sleep is a communist plot devised by the summoners to make us all lose, unless you're a LBM, dont sleep the bloody cat (or the summoner for that matter), it's just a bad tactic in general. Not only does it heal the sleeped opponent, it's all too easy for the summoner to abuse targetting to wake it up.

 

Edit: also the dandelion is a strictly better stealth than what Sin gets, not only do you get 1.5 seconds of resist when in stealth (which is bullshit) you also get to stealth where you were standing instead of being shunted behind your opponent and instantly knocked out of stealth.

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The problem is that we have to take care of ALL Those things + Have a cat chasing us 24/7 that just puts us into grapple while we get sunflower nuked.

They have so many protective shields (dandalion and aura) and then still have a cat bodyguard if they *cricket* up.

I can't even knock the cat unconcious because they cheese call it back before it lands so it's *cricket*ing impossible to disable it.

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yeahhh,how many from you guys who have nightmares with summoner actualy did pvp in arena after 1700 ranking,playing as summoner?maybe you should try and see what skilled people are able to do against a summoner

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1 minute ago, Bcl said:

yeahhh,how many from you guys who have nightmares with summoner actualy did pvp in arena after 1700 ranking,playing as summoner?maybe you should try and see what skilled people are able to do against a summoner

1700 isn't skilled, you're just bad amongst bad.

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7 minutes ago, Bcl said:

yeahhh,how many from you guys who have nightmares with summoner actualy did pvp in arena after 1700 ranking,playing as summoner?maybe you should try and see what skilled people are able to do against a summoner

I challenge you to hit gold as a BM.

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