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Draelth   
12 minutes ago, 882184_1452550488 said:

this  thread is so much bm lovers in it ;D , problem with BM is that they have to much in their kit atm. 

Too much in their Kit how and compare to what class?

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2 hours ago, Draelth said:

Too much in their Kit how and compare to what class?

That's the problem, they have no clue about the BM all they know is they are getting their arses kicked by someone who knows how to play the BM to its strengths and their weaknesses. If I were a betting man, I'd say the ones who are demanding the BM class be nerfed are your range DPS players. Normally they are the ones who became salty the most concerning melee classes.

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Aorin   

i will be very interested when sin get the black tower soul shild +blue buff mystic badge and blue buff cd reduce soul badge + legendary bracalet and spam it every 1 min and use only hearth stab i see QQ forum post like this ... same whit fm 

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babeln   
2 hours ago, DamnedYankee said:

That's the problem, they have no clue about the BM all they know is they are getting their arses kicked by someone who knows how to play the BM to its strengths and their weaknesses. If I were a betting man, I'd say the ones who are demanding the BM class be nerfed are your range DPS players. Normally they are the ones who became salty the most concerning melee classes.

Hmm thats strange, i would say exactly opposite, other meele classes! Cause bm does 2x more dps than poor them. Fm can keep usually on par, when theres long fight. In short burst, its like bm is 10x stronger. So in last month, in all runs i did, every meele class are noobs, cuz all can do same dps, only bm are pros, and do 2x more?

Oh and one more thing, when fm were tanking all the time, till bm overbuff, i havent ever seen single fm complaining, or acting important about that, like this bms in this thread.

I was doing yesterday with my fm probably fastest asura run i seen, with bm and fm both 760ish ap, both had legendary neck and ring. Fm did about 30perc more dps, than poor me with 690ish ap, sf 700 was far behind, but bm did 2x more dps than whole party together, on all bosses. Hell, he did more dps than me, throwing shields on iruga (i over"dpsed" him by 3rd shield, but only a bit, lol). I dont complain, let bms carry us, why not, but this balance is kinda strange lol. It was total broken, why, i dunno... 

Look ncsoft balancing, wl were super op in pvp, wrecking everyone, so they got nerfed to total hell, till the end of times probably. Bm dps was super low, they could tank, and had hm block as utility, that was their strenght, now they got buffed so extreme, till the end of times probably.

 

Balanced to new kr content and skills, means kinda broken for us, also it will take ages, till we get there, and even then, there will be just hadful of people, who got elemental accesories, for long time.

Edited by babeln

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Zedonia   
6 hours ago, XxXxXxXxXxXxX said:

If you are a fm all you do is just sit there and spam buttons no need to iframe almost any of the boss' attacks and if you are a sin you just go in stealth and dps the boss without worrying about aggro while BMs or KFMs have to deal all of the boss' attacks and keep the aggro.

Oh yes, you are right. Sins never got aggro and are untouchable anyway because they are invincible in stealth and of course no boss has aoe attacks. Oh and let all forget most sins dont even use lightning build. And dont only refer to shit fms who can nothing but spamming 3 buttons. I tanked every Boss in the game as fm and almost every ebondrake run 6 man and 4 man. Dont think ist that incredible what a bm does when he "tanks". Blocking as bm is a joke and he can evade attacks as easy as a range class can.

 

BMs in pve are just a little too strong now but they are too strong in pvp and thats the main problem. Dont try to deny that only because you play bm.

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babeln   
8 minutes ago, Zedonia said:

Oh yes, you are right. Sins never got aggro and are untouchable anyway because they are invincible in stealth and of course no boss has aoe attacks. Oh and let all forget most sins dont even use lightning build. And dont only refer to shit fms who can nothing but spamming 3 buttons. I tanked every Boss in the game as fm and almost every ebondrake run 6 man and 4 man. Dont think ist that incredible what a bm does when he "tanks". Blocking as bm is a joke and he can evade attacks as easy as a range class can.

 

BMs in pve are just a little too strong now but they are too strong in pvp and thats the main problem. Dont try to deny that only because you play bm.

Agreed. No tank, no mitigation, but so easy blocks and evades, so lol.

Till now, fm were usually tanking everything, rare to see bm, or kfm, who would keep aggro. No fm complained or acted such ridiculous important, and its not really 3buttons when you have boss on you, have to keep in meele distance, without any block etc.

+ whats point of bms, denying that its broken atm, do they wanna just play bm game? 99 perc bm playerbase incomming lol.

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16 minutes ago, babeln said:

Till now, fm were usually tanking everything, rare to see bm, or kfm, who would keep aggro.

You must have run with some terrible, I mean absolutely terrible BMs and KFMs then. A competent BM/KFM, even with 100-150 AP less than an FM can easily keep aggro. Even BMs pre-patch (speaking from experience).

 

Yes, BMs seem broken at the moment cause of NA getting skill patches out of order. That's why you rarely see lightning BMs around, cause lightning BMs need the gear from future content to do as much dps as fire build. And other classes would be doing more than BMs by then.

 

It's kind of sad, there are so many terrible FOTM BMs(with terrible arrogant/cocky attitudes) popping up cause of all these "hold RMB top dps" statements flying around. I can't wait for when we get future content and these FOTM BMs go back to playing their original mains. Forums can finally stop having QQ topics about BM and focus on QQing about other classes like it was before.

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Zedonia   
5 minutes ago, OniOfTheSword said:

A competent BM/KFM, even with 100-150 AP less than an FM can easily keep aggro. Even BMs pre-patch (speaking from experience).

I highly doubt that, dude. But maybe you are right. There are really shitty bms out there but also bad fms. Its hard to tell who is doing what wrong or right. Putting good players together probably wont help much there because both will do great dps meaning bm will have aggro. In F8 its almost impossible to find a bm who can hold aggro against my fm if he has 50+ ap less than me. Well, I also have neck and ring and ebon/tomb shields which makes a difference too against most people.

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17 minutes ago, Zedonia said:

I highly doubt that, dude. But maybe you are right. There are really shitty bms out there but also bad fms. Its hard to tell who is doing what wrong or right. Putting good players together probably wont help much there because both will do great dps meaning bm will have aggro. In F8 its almost impossible to find a bm who can hold aggro against my fm if he has 50+ ap less than me. Well, I also have neck and ring and ebon/tomb shields which makes a difference too against most people.

See, that's the thing. When a BM/KFM uses a threat skill, the boss thinks they're doing 2.5x the actual damage they're doing. This is stacked with some threat modified skills that makes it seem like they're doing way more. So if they hit for 5k, the boss thinks that they did 12.5k dps. A BM/KFM only needs to do half the damage(even slightly less than half is ok) any non-aggro class is doing to hold aggro comfortably.

 

Even playing with high ping, decently geared/skilled BMs/KFMs should be able to achieve this. A KFM friend of mine playing with 200+ ping from South America easily holds aggro against FMs/Sins 100 AP above him, and I've consistently done so myself as a BM, since launch (although I do have much better ping than he does).

Edited by OniOfTheSword

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Aorin   

all of you who complain about bm dps in PARTY dont know how unrewarding was being a bm in solo content like Mushin Tower and Tower Of infinity our dps was low and we dont have personal buff whit hight burst like kfm... when ToI come to eu/na every class made to floor 50+ expect bm .. for bm was the hightest was like 44 or so whit maxed out gear tell me how was that fair ? why was that not a problem ..

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On 10.10.2016 at 1:16 PM, DamnedYankee said:

And what that tells me is people have no clear understanding how to counter a BM when in combat against one.

But do You try to say only small percentage of Force Masters know how to play, and majority of Blade Masters know it very well, thats why they are ranked so high in 1vs1, IT even if there is almost twice more Force Masters in EU/NA than Blade Masters? I Checked IT ranking at the end of the last season, there was 2(!) force masters in top 500, and 80 Blade Masters (second place after summoners). At the end day of current 1vs1 season i will check it too, but i don't expect big difference. Those are facts, every one can check it ingame, and they aren't subjective. And pls, stop saying that among tens of thousends of players, only fm's don't know how to play, because it is totaly inlogic, and statistically impossible.

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10 minutes ago, Southwind said:

But do You try to say only small percentage of Force Masters know how to play, and majority of Blade Masters know it very well, thats why they are ranked so high in 1vs1, IT even if there is almost twice more Force Masters in EU/NA than Blade Masters? I Checked IT ranking at the end of the last season, there was 2(!) force masters in top 500, and 80 Blade Masters (second place after summoners). At the end day of current 1vs1 season i will check it too, but i don't expect big difference. Those are facts, every one can check it ingame, and they aren't subjective. And pls, stop saying that among tens of thousends of players, only fm's don't know how to play, because it is totaly inlogic, and statistically impossible.

Here's what you do not understand. This game went live for ALL in NA/EU in January of this year. You expect players, especially new ones that came in 4 months ago to be top of the heap and KNOW all there is to know about all the other classes and to counter them? If this is what you believe then you have no concept about this game or others like it when it comes to PvP.

 

Those who started out on this game in January for the most part have diminished (read: left the game). New players come and go. The turn over rate for this game right now is astounding. Players for the most part, pick a class and play only that in a game that is not alt friendly. Their mistake, like yours, is to do this and expect to know how to fight against the other classes. How is that possible when you do not know or understand how they function?

 

There is ONE constant with melee classes, they all require you to be in the face of their opponent be it boss or player. Melee players from other games will pick up immediately how and what a BM, BD, KFM, DES, and Sin will do, learn the intricate mechanics of the game and excel in a class they love playing. Melee classes in this game, with the exception of the KFM, are not difficult to master and play. Ranged classes require a bit more to use than does melee. It has always been like that. If your 'stats' show anything it proves my point that melee players know how to melee using their classes to their advantage while range classes (singular minded player of one class) do not know how to fight a melee specialist.

 

Previously, I asked you if you know the inherent weakness of the BM. You failed to respond. I take your lack of an answer to show you do not. Again, I suggest you level up a BM so you can see its strengths and weakness. Until such time you do that you will remain uninformed, vulnerable, and have no ability to be successful against a melee class.

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3 hours ago, DamnedYankee said:

You expect players, especially new ones that came in 4 months ago to be top of the heap and KNOW all there is to know about all the other classes and to counter them?

Lol but every class (except WL, SF) then, so what's your point here? :D

 

3 hours ago, DamnedYankee said:

Melee classes in this game, with the exception of the KFM, are not difficult to master and play. Ranged classes require a bit more to use than does melee.

Well it's true, but. Summoner is also ranged class, and it is well known easy mode, and most hated class before BM. It's not only about knowledge about self and other classes, but also about skills balance. But You will never agree, and rather personal attack "You don't know how to play", yeah say this to 99% of 30k+ lvl 50 force masters in this game. 

 

3 hours ago, DamnedYankee said:

Previously, I asked you if you know the inherent weakness of the BM. You failed to respond. I take your lack of an answer to show you do not.

XD I just ingored that, You think there is "ONE SPECIAL ALMIGHTY THING" and with it You can win with BM everytime? For me as FM its all about proper time snowball to break&block defense, as well as hm grab (which has +50% cooldown last patch), stay away when range shield is up, and use HM impact to counter their aproaches, rest is same for all classes, avoid wasting escapes as long as it possible, and force opponent to waste it faster. Im not saying i am best pvper, but i am constantly in top 100 FMs 1vs1 just by dailys, was in top 50 FMs IT last season, and top 50 FMs 6vs6 without leaving a group. 

Edited by Southwind

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Rokusan   
26 minutes ago, DamnedYankee said:

There is ONE constant with melee classes, they all require you to be in the face of their opponent be it boss or player. Melee players from other games will pick up immediately how and what a BM, BD, KFM, DES, and Sin will do, learn the intricate mechanics of the game and excel in a class they love playing. Melee classes in this game, with the exception of the KFM, are not difficult to master and play. Ranged classes require a bit more to use than does melee. It has always been like that. If your 'stats' show anything it proves my point that melee players know how to melee using their classes to their advantage while range classes (singular minded player of one class) do not know how to fight a melee specialist.

 

Previously, I asked you if you know the inherent weakness of the BM. You failed to respond. I take your lack of an answer to show you do not. Again, I suggest you level up a BM so you can see its strengths and weakness. Until such time you do that you will remain uninformed, vulnerable, and have no ability to be successful against a melee class.

Ranged classes "require more to use" than melee? When you say ranged, does that include summoners? LOL! Because summoners have been at the top of the heap ever since launch. They're the most played class, they're hands-down the most easiest class to use and get used to, they've consistently been able to land in many top spots in PvP and now even in Infinity tower. Maybe you'd say it's because they're the most played class but then you'd have to apply the same principle with FMs who are the second most played class and when you do, it just isn't the same as it is with summoners. You can no longer argue by dividing classes in regards to being melee or ranged by difficulty when you have summoners who ruin your point.

 

I'll give you BD and Destroyer for mastery and use but for the other melee classes, one can argue that they are not as easy or as easy to master so I've heard. BMs are now more forgiving though because of their buffs and with the introduction of Hongmoon skills. 

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35 minutes ago, Southwind said:

 XD I just ingored that, You think there is "ONE SPECIAL ALMIGHTY THING" and with it You can win with BM everytime? For me as FM its all about proper time snowball to break&block defense, as well as hm grab (which has +50% cooldown last patch), stay away when range shield is up, and use HM impact to counter their aproaches, rest is same for all classes, avoid wasting escapes as long as it possible, and force opponent to waste it faster. Im not saying i am best pvper, but i am constantly in top 100 FMs 1vs1 just by dailys, was in top 50 FMs IT last season, and top 50 FMs 6vs6 without leaving a group. 

You ignored it because you do not know the weakness(es) of the BM. That's your mistake. Again, you make assumptions based on flawed data and lack of knowledge about BMs because you have spent no time playing one. You can quote all the numbers you want, but it does not support your original argument and now the widely diverse tangent you are on now. You are using a strawman argument to cover up your faux pas concerning BMs as tanks doing massive DPS.

36 minutes ago, Rokusan said:

Ranged classes "require more to use" than melee?

Ranged classes, no matter the game, require finesse, total situational awareness, and no how to use its defenses to keep one's ranged toon out of trouble with a non-ranged class. Yes, it requires more to use, even a summoner. SF has the best of both worlds IMO, ranged and melee.

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Well your answer doesn't make any sense, it's like taken from the political debate: "blah blah, you don't know, blah blah, flawed data, blah blah, lack of knowledge, blah blah, strawman argument, blah blah".

 

Still, numbers are objective, math rules are objective, if certain classes started to significantly dominate among others in rankings, and the gap between bottom and top is so huge like here = lack of balance. I am very curious how You will answer to this?

Edited by Southwind

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Rokusan   
21 minutes ago, DamnedYankee said:

Red classes, no matter the game, require finesse, total situational awareness, and no how to use its defenses to keep one's ranged toon out of trouble with a non-ranged class. Yes, it requires more to use, even a summoner. SF has the best of both worlds IMO, ranged and melee.

No..... summoners are by far the easiest class to use in this game and it reflects very easily on the PvP, 6v6, and Infinity Tower ladders. Also why are KFMs branded as hard to play in PvP when they're in fact very melee. It has nothing to do with whether the character is ranged or melee. It has to do with their kit = combo damage output, CCs available, CDs, defensive options, etc. Very little to nothing to do with whether they are a melee or a ranged class.

 

 

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