Killtrades a sort of Exploit ?!

[Hatsunya]

4 minutes ago, Victorion said:

Couldn´t the same argument be used for Ogong door exploit - which alot of players recieved bans for?

Ogong was exploit and killtrading is not exploit. That is the diffrence

[Victorion]

Just now, Hatsunya said:

Ogong was exploit and killtrading is not exploit. That is the diffrence

And you´re the judge of that??

 

The game has no easy way to make a distinction between a PvP kill and a trade-kill. You´re taking advantage of that flaw in the game, to skip the difficulty of the quest – but still reap the quest rewards. And that is the very definition of an exploit. To take advantage of a flaw.

 

Perhaps you should consider, that maybe the quest reward was only meant for the players who are worthy of it.

Not because the quest is that hard to complete, but for those with minimal HP, low AP and poor understanding of skills – they will have a hard time completing it daily. And they are not worthy of the quest reward – yet.

 

Fair? It´s not a question about fairness or fabricating reasons of justification. It remains an exploit to kill-trade. Skipping the quest itself and then claim the quest reward. Much in the same way, that it´s an exploit to claim the Ogong dungeon reward without killing the minibosses.

 

In all MMO´s I know, kill-trading is not allowed. Boosting ranks and claiming quest rewards, without doing the quest objective or the work intended to boost your rank – is an remains an exploit. It was not intended, you´re taking advantage of a flaw, and trying to justify it because you

 

1)      don´t like pvp

2)      probably have bad understanding of pvp

3)      lowly geared and no intention of making the effort of improving.

[Latarius]

U Forgot QQ

 

I dont wanna die

I dont like

die-ing

grouping with other

to do something for the things I get

 

All others are...

OP Classes

Hackers

Bots

Cheater

and stupid, retarded Idiots just cause they killed me cause I cant kill them with my evil eye.

 

And I would win ANY bet, that this is the main reason for the QQ-mode-generation

QQ

[Hatsunya]

15 minutes ago, Victorion said:

And you´re the judge of that??

 

The game has no easy way to make a distinction between a PvP kill and a trade-kill. You´re taking advantage of that flaw in the game, to skip the difficulty of the quest – but still reap the quest rewards. And that is the very definition of an exploit. To take advantage of a flaw.

 

 

 

Perhaps you should consider, that maybe the quest reward was only meant for the players who are worthy of it.

 

Not because the quest is that hard to complete, but for those with minimal HP, low AP and poor understanding of skills – they will have a hard time completing it daily. And they are not worthy of the quest reward – yet.

 

 

 

Fair? It´s not a question about fairness or fabricating reasons of justification. It remains an exploit to kill-trade. Skipping the quest itself and then claim the quest reward. Much in the same way, that it´s an exploit to claim the Ogong dungeon reward without killing the minibosses.

 

 

 

In all MMO´s I know, kill-trading is not allowed. Boosting ranks and claiming quest rewards, without doing the quest objective or the work intended to boost your rank – is an remains an exploit. It was not intended, you´re taking advantage of a flaw, and trying to justify it because you

 

 

 

1)      don´t like pvp

 

2)      probably have bad understanding of pvp

 

3)      lowly geared and no intention of making the effort of improving.

 

How about you go google what exploit means before you do that i highly recommend that you wont take part to discussion which you have no clue. Because it seems so hard for you to understand what exploit means lets look it up

 

"In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers."

 

So why is Ogong door exploit and not kill trading.

 

Going through doors and skipping bosses was never intentionally developed and i dont have to be judge what ever is exploit and what is not. Ncsoft announced it was exploit because it was not intentionaly made and we should not use it. Thats because it was exploit

 

Killtrading? Players are doing exactly as quest says. Kill 10x opposite faction players.  You guys have not brought any actualy argument on this. If you dont like it dont do it and hunt down opposite faction. Those who want to killtrade does not effect you anyway nor cause any harm to you.

[Latarius]

7 minutes ago, Hatsunya said:

 

"In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers."

 

You answerd the question urself, U exploit the Game System CAUSE IT WAS NOT !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Intended from ANY Game designer that U CALL "hey Looking for 10/10 killtrader" in Region Chat. It WAS INTENDED THAT u go and hunt the 10 ppl from the opposite faction.

And this exactly is to ur ADVANTAGE cause u get ur rank faster and more SS (even just 2 are more) as If u would SKIP that quest.

U finaly get it ???

 

The Fact that NCSoft isnt doing anything doenst mean you dont exploit. Its just a matter of Money, Cause more then 50% of the play base use killtrades, thats much more then they had banned cause RMT/3rd Party tools and so on.

Thats the reason why you cheaters wont get a ban.

They would lost way to much money.

 

It like a coruppted Goverment, they Accept crimes cause they earn from, even if they know its not right/fair/legit.

 

But I guess ppl that dont wanna get it, wont ever get it ...

[Victorion]

1 minute ago, Latarius said:

You answerd the question urself, U exploit the Game System CAUSE IT WAS NOT !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Intended from ANY Game designer that U CALL "hey Looking for 10/10 killtrader" in Region Chat. It WAS INTENDED THAT u go and hunt the 10 ppl from the opposite faction.

And this exactly is to ur ADVANTAGE cause u get ur rank faster and more SS (even just 2 are more) as If u would SKIP that quest.

U finaly get it ???

 

He/She won´t get it. We´ve explained it multiple times, and run into the same door.

Till an NCsoft employee officially states that exploiting the quest by skipping the pvp-part objective - is bannable - it won´t be an exploit in the eyes of Hatsunya.

 

I am actually hoping for a mass ban of players that killtrade - but thats just a dream, since it will be unrealistic for gm´s to go through millions of player logs, to see whether or not they killed the 10 same players in a row without recieving damage back.

[Latarius]

yep, its hopeless...

[Hatsunya]

36 minutes ago, Latarius said:

You answerd the question urself, U exploit the Game System CAUSE IT WAS NOT !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Intended from ANY Game designer that U CALL "hey Looking for 10/10 killtrader" in Region Chat. It WAS INTENDED THAT u go and hunt the 10 ppl from the opposite faction.

And this exactly is to ur ADVANTAGE cause u get ur rank faster and more SS (even just 2 are more) as If u would SKIP that quest.

U finaly get it ???

 

The Fact that NCSoft isnt doing anything doenst mean you dont exploit. Its just a matter of Money, Cause more then 50% of the play base use killtrades, thats much more then they had banned cause RMT/3rd Party tools and so on.

Thats the reason why you cheaters wont get a ban.

They would lost way to much money.

 

It like a coruppted Goverment, they Accept crimes cause they earn from, even if they know its not right/fair/legit.

 

But I guess ppl that dont wanna get it, wont ever get it ...

 

35 minutes ago, Victorion said:

He/She won´t get it. We´ve explained it multiple times, and run into the same door.

Till an NCsoft employee officially states that exploiting the quest by skipping the pvp-part objective - is bannable - it won´t be an exploit in the eyes of Hatsunya.

 

I am actually hoping for a mass ban of players that killtrade - but thats just a dream, since it will be unrealistic for gm´s to go through millions of player logs, to see whether or not they killed the 10 same players in a row without recieving damage back.

I have not seen ever this hopeless community ever. Seriously crybabies crying over nothing.

 

Quest design is to kill 10x opposite faction members. It never states that player is not allowed to kill trade.  Last time i checked if i kill someone 10x im doing quest as it says. So cry me river. Note before you superheros get ideas about me doing this im not. Im not doing faction dailies because they're waste of my time.

 

With logic that someone is killtrading is bannable then anyone who does that quest in group should be banned too because they get "unfair" advantage over others. Then we should ban players who kill player who is afk because it was unfair now then we should also ban anyone who is killing player who is under his level because its unfair. Then we should ban anyone who is able to play more than 3hours this game and has better gear than next guy. Hell lets ban anyone who logs in just because we can

 

If you dont like killtrading then dont do it. Those who do it gets hardly ANY benefit. Yeah they might save 10 minutes with this so what? Or get 2 soulstone more or 20 points more to faction bohoo seriously there are much more important issues in game than this actually this is not even issue.

 

Killtrading is completely diffrent thing than Ogong's exploit.

 

In Half of ogong it was designed so that players needed to defeat minibosses first before going to last boss while this faction quest was designed so that players needed to kill 10x opposite faction members. Completely diffrent things and only west crybabies would cry over nothing so go get tissues and wipe those pathetic tears of yours and play the damn game

[Sempra]

wooow what a discussion about 2 DAMM ( i repeat : TWO ) Soulstones and a ranking that says NOTHING about your PvP Skill.

 

Go and make your Dailys and if NcSoft want that, you get banned or not. Choose your way!

 

And hey, tomorrow we ALL here have a new Battlefield to discuss and cry:

 

http://www.bladeandsoul.com/en/news/soulstone-plains/

[Victorion]

Quest design is to kill 10x opposite faction members. It never states that player is not allowed to kill trade.

 

Ogong quest design just states to kill the dungeon boss. It never states that player is not allowed to skip minibosses.

 

If you dont like killtrading then dont do it. Those who do it gets hardly ANY benefit. Yeah they might save 10 minutes with this so what? Or get 2 soulstone more or 20 points more to faction bohoo seriously there are much more important issues in game than this actually this is not even issue.

 

If you don´t like skipping minibosses, then don´t do it. Those who do it gets hardly ANY benefit. Yeah they might save 10 minutes with this so what? Or get 2 tears more or 20 random items to salvage bohoo seriously there are much more important issues in game than this actually this is not even issue.

 

Killtrading is completely diffrent thing than Ogong's exploit.

 

In Half of ogong it was designed so that players needed to defeat minibosses first before going to last boss while this faction quest was designed so that players needed to kill 10x opposite faction members. Completely diffrent things and only west crybabies would cry over nothing so go get tissues and wipe those pathetic tears of yours and play the damn game

 

Faction quest it was designed so that players needed to pvp in faction contested area before reaping the pvp-quest reward while this Ogong quest was designed so that you needed to defeat minibosses before getting a go at the dungeon boss. Completely same things and only conceited ignorant cretins would refuse to acknowledge this. So go hold your breath, leave the toilet seat up and wait for someone to care.

[Sempra]

@Victorion

Seeing your class, reading your last post and know its enough to repeat myself:

 

wooow what a discussion about 2 DAMM ( i repeat : TWO ) Soulstones and a ranking that says NOTHING about your PvP Skill.

 

Go and make your Dailys and if NcSoft want that, you get banned or not. Choose your way!

 

And hey, tomorrow we ALL here have a new Battlefield to discuss and cry:

 

http://www.bladeandsoul.com/en/news/soulstone-plains/

[Hatsunya]

7 minutes ago, Victorion said:

Quest design is to kill 10x opposite faction members. It never states that player is not allowed to kill trade.

 

 

 

Ogong quest design just states to kill the dungeon boss. It never states that player is not allowed to skip minibosses.

 

 

 

If you dont like killtrading then dont do it. Those who do it gets hardly ANY benefit. Yeah they might save 10 minutes with this so what? Or get 2 soulstone more or 20 points more to faction bohoo seriously there are much more important issues in game than this actually this is not even issue.

 

 

 

If you don´t like skipping minibosses, then don´t do it. Those who do it gets hardly ANY benefit. Yeah they might save 10 minutes with this so what? Or get 2 tears more or 20 random items to salvage bohoo seriously there are much more important issues in game than this actually this is not even issue.

 

 

 

Killtrading is completely diffrent thing than Ogong's exploit.

 

 

 

In Half of ogong it was designed so that players needed to defeat minibosses first before going to last boss while this faction quest was designed so that players needed to kill 10x opposite faction members. Completely diffrent things and only west crybabies would cry over nothing so go get tissues and wipe those pathetic tears of yours and play the damn game

 

 

 

Faction quest it was designed so that players needed to pvp in faction contested area before reaping the pvp-quest reward while this Ogong quest was designed so that you needed to defeat minibosses before getting a go at the dungeon boss. Completely same things and only conceited ignorant cretins would refuse to acknowledge this. So go hold your breath, leave the toilet seat up and wait for someone to care.

 

Are you acting stupid or are you actually that stupid? Daily ogong quest requirement was only to kill last boss and if there was not doors designed to open after defeating minibosses then it would've been fine to run last boss and kill it but because it was designed so that theres door preventing that so bypassing them was flaw in game code which made it exploit. Seriously before commenting take 30minutes to think what you reply before typing it.

 

Its not same thing its not even close to same thing. If you cant tell diffrence between bypassing ingame doors in dungeon and trading kills between players then you should get some help before its too late

[Risen Slacker]

Well some/most people see that area as just a soulstone farm.  they get their quests done and leave to do other stuff 24 mans, 6 or 4 man dungeons etc...  But lets put it bluntly if you really want to pvp go to the freaking arena and pvp, those quests are not pvp they are troll-able pve dailies.  Frankly the ones I usually see there proudly declaring it pvp are just Ghankers and failed arena pvpers that only know how to ambush and spin to win with a gear advantage.  So yes some people do trade kills get over it, its not real pvp.  Maybe the new open world pvp area will hold more potental but misty woods faction dailies are not much as far as skilled pvp. And as posted earlier its over "2 SOULSTONES" not worth an argument

[Victorion]

2 minutes ago, Hatsunya said:

Are you acting stupid or are you actually that stupid? Daily ogong quest requirement was only to kill last boss and if there was not doors designed to open after defeating minibosses then it would've been fine to run last boss and kill it but because it was designed so that theres door preventing that so bypassing them was flaw in game code which made it exploit. Seriously before commenting take 30minutes to think what you reply before typing it.

 

Its not same thing its not even close to same thing. If you cant tell diffrence between bypassing ingame doors in dungeon and trading kills between players then you should get some help before its too late

Right back at you. Did you really believe that faction quests and faction contested areas, was designed so that enemy players could help eachother bypass quest objectives and kill blackwyrm and terrors side by side?

 

Man you have something coming at you for the new update when we get a whole new focus on pvp-rewards and faction contested map.

 

Bottomline.

 

You are using a flaw in the game design, to skip the pvp-objective and claiming undeserved quest-rewards.

[Sempra]

2 minutes ago, Victorion said:

Right back at you. Did you really believe that faction quests and faction contested areas, was designed so that enemy players could help eachother bypass quest objectives and kill blackwyrm and terrors side by side?

 

Woop arguments gone, changing from 2 Soulstone discussion to blackwyrm and terrors^^

 

Hey, why we dont start to discuss now about pvp arena and the chance to get many soulstones there, if you kill bots there, to push your ranking?

( yeah its a way to avoid it, leave the fight if you see, that a bot is challenge you, so you cant say: "Bots in arena is not something you planned for, or have any control over. " )

[Victorion]

It´s not about the reward.

It´s not about the morality or ethics.

It´s not about quest descriptions

 

It´s about taking advantage of a flaw.

The very definition of exploit.

 

People has just continously trying to fabricate reasons of sense, that attempts to justify their exploits. Which fails everytime, it is and remains and exploit whether or not you can justify the tolerance of it.

 

Doesn´t matter if the rewards are significant or not, doesn´t matter if it directly impacts other players or not. It is still an exploit.

We´ve just a very similar case, where tons of players got banned for exploiting a flaw to skip half of the dungeon. I was referring to that as an example.

[Sempra]

Quote

It´s about taking advantage of a flaw.

People has just continously trying to fabricate reasons of sense, that attempts to justify their exploits. Which fails everytime, it is and remains and exploit whether or not you can justify the tolerance of it.

 

Doesn´t matter if the rewards are significant or not, doesn´t matter if it directly impacts other players or not. It is still an exploit.

We´ve just a very similar case, where tons of players got banned for exploiting a flaw to skip half of the dungeon. I was referring to that as an example.

 

- I dont see that as an exploit if anyone do that, cuz you dont avoid any game mechanics or something else, if you meet a friend and cut off his leg to get the kill ^^

( info: i need a hour or more to complete the quest cuz i get killed from 5 or more guys if i try to kill one basecamper)

 

But i think its not worth to discuss it, cuz one of us like PvP more then the other and try to protect this part of the game.

 

- Whats with guys that killed Bots for the quest? exploits or same argument of " Bots are not something you planned for, or have any control over.

[Risen Slacker]

Heres another way to look at it, it will be obselete tomorow.  But above that what about the assassins that go to the top of their enemy's re-spawn tower and spawn camp? isn't that a far worse offense?  As far as exploits go lets look at animation canceling isn't that a exploit as well, but we all end up doing it.  What about killing and ressing an idoitic afk over and over hey that's a exploit too.  Hmm, so if an exploit is any action or series of commands that makes a program do something internally that is not intended we would all be banned.  Feces stinks not just others yours as well, look in the mirror.

[Victorion]

1 minute ago, Risen Slacker said:

Heres another way to look at it, it will be obselete tomorow.  But above that what about the assassins that go to the top of their enemy's re-spawn tower and spawn camp? isn't that a far worse offense?  As far as exploits go lets look at animation canceling isn't that a exploit as well, but we all end up doing it.  What about killing and ressing an idoitic afk over and over hey that's a exploit too.  Shall we keep going?

This topic is about kill-trading. Not about new content or spawn-killing. I don´t see the reason why you constantly try to mis-direct attention elsewhere.

 

Kill-trading is an exploit (because you´re intentionally taking advantage of a design flaw, that enables you to skip the pvp-objective)

That remains true, regardless of whether it´s tolerable, or if there are other things that you think is more important.

[Lunakitty]

I would like to know one thing. Why does it bother you SO much that people do kill trades when for now it is not bannable but is what the quest says in easy way? Is it because you people are jealous how easy others actually get rewards?

 

As many have stated that it's only 2 soulstones you get in a day from that quest I don't understand the uproar caused by it. Shouldn't people who randomly kill afk person also be banned? How about if you don't know the person is afk before you kill the person? And how about those lv 45 who come in lv 15 areas to kill new players who are unaware that enemy is lurking behind and get instakilled?

[Risen Slacker]

Well your saying its a exploit, that's fine.  But so is a sin spawn camping the re-spawn point its not misdirection its stating a truth that you're saying is ok? Its not intended they aren't supposed to get up there and stay up there.  Its supposed to be a safe place to re-spawn and regroup by design. A sin going there and spawn camping is using a "gasp" exploit. There are a million other exploits that players in this game use im just pointing out the one of the ones that are far more agregous that trade killing.

[Victorion]

2 minutes ago, Lunakitty said:

I would like to know one thing. Why does it bother you SO much that people do kill trades when for now it is not bannable but is what the quest says in easy way? Is it because you people are jealous how easy others actually get rewards?

 

As many have stated that it's only 2 soulstones you get in a day from that quest I don't understand the uproar caused by it. Shouldn't people who randomly kill afk person also be banned? How about if you don't know the person is afk before you kill the person? And how about those lv 45 who come in lv 15 areas to kill new players who are unaware that enemy is lurking behind and get instakilled?

How about you stick to the topic, instead of throwing personal attacks?

 

Topic questions: Is kill trade an exploit?

Answer: Yes

 

If you disagree, kindly provide logical arguments as to why it is not exploit. (and not self-fabricated reasons of why you think it shouldn´t be one).

 

NB. Exploiting is bannable and both of us don´t know whether or not players are actively being banned for it. We can probably assume it isn´t the case, as there´s been no noticable post about that, however we don´t know, we just know the ToS clearly states that exploiting is a bannable offence.

 

@Risen Slacker

I fully agree that spawn-camping isn´t great. It has nothing to do with this topic - and since I just mentioned just this in the previous post, I am starting to believe that you´re hijacking the thread on purpose.

Read the Topic name....

[Hatsunya]

4 minutes ago, Victorion said:

How about you stick to the topic, instead of throwing personal attacks?

 

Topic questions: Is kill trade an exploit?

Answer: Yes

 

If you disagree, kindly provide logical arguments as to why it is not exploit. (and not self-fabricated reasons of why you think it shouldn´t be one).

 

NB. Exploiting is bannable and both of us don´t know whether or not players are actively being banned for it. We can probably assume it isn´t the case, as there´s been no noticable post about that, however we don´t know, we just know the ToS clearly states that exploiting is a bannable offence.

 

@Risen Slacker

I fully agree that spawn-camping isn´t great. It has nothing to do with this topic - and since I just mentioned just this in the previous post, I am starting to believe that you´re hijacking the thread on purpose.

Read the Topic name....

When do you get it to ur thick head its not exploit it does not bug out game in any way.. With your logic then we should ban anyone who does dungeons in solo or less than intented party size because dungeons are mean for 4 or 6 man parties. So yeah great logic

[Risen Slacker]

Theres no said rules it cant be the same person for all 10 kills, none nowhere is this said. Trade killing is simply 2 people or groups of people who want to get it done over with and move on.  They does not share your sense of how pvp should look and feel get over it.  If you want to bark about exploits try something with a bit more of a bite like say.... bots or people who hack with third party programs.  It honestly sounds like people get their trade kills and move when you try and ghank them over and over and over and over and over and over..... all the same person.  Wait thats just a one sided version of trade killing get that through your thick head, maybe thats why they switch channels.  Just be glad they didn't make a single player only worth one credit over a set amount of time.

[Lunakitty]

I understand the part that kill trading isn't real pvp but in every fight there has to be loser and winner. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. And how exactly will they make the difference who is kill trading and who is actually just winning and losing sometimes with another player from another faction? Faction rank can be gotten from other quests also than just from the pvp so it's invalid to say it's ranking them up within faction as argument why it is exploiting.

 

And no I was not intending to do personal attack. Just wanted to know why is it so big deal if others get the quest done easy way. Don't take everything as offence. As for me I wouldn't bother with such quest because those who usually wear the uniform are way more geared and skilled and I for now couldn't get any kills unless I attack low lvls OR do kill trading.