Evasion / Block stats in PvP World : DOES IT WORKS ?

[Mandarine]

Hi !

 

I was planning to make an Evasion or Block build for my FM (for World Pvp)

But I saw on some forums that these 2 stats doesn't work well for it.

 

For example : You have 50% Evasion and the enemy has 105% Accuracy ----> so 45% Evasion for me, right?

 

--------> But the fact is (from many forum comments) : When you will see some difference against Distance Oponents,

you'll see no difference against a melee oponent.

With 45% Evasion, you'll see maybe 2 or 3 "EVADE" during the full fight

 

Does anyone have made some research about this? Before I spend 100 Gold in an Evasion Build? Thanks  -

--------------------------------------

 

Oh and 2 other things :

 

1) can we "Evade" stuns skill? Like ruining a combo because you evaded an enemy stun ?

 

2) Can we Evade when we are in an air combo? Like evade an "Ascend" from a blade master ?

[Archess]

I am trying an Evasion build right now, still have 40% crit and 40% evasion, but when certain classes in open world pvp hit me, i barely see any evades happen, especially against aoe attacks, i only see proper back to back evades in pve content.

[Archess]

Ungh wanted to add, send a 470 evasion Diamond to a lvl 10 character, it will have 70-80% evade, mobs cant hit you, now equip a pvp outfit, players can still beat the living crap out of you as opposed to evading at least 50% of their attacks.

 

So quite frankly i don't think it works like that in pvp at all.

[Mandarine]

If it's real, we have 3 informations for World PvP :

 

1) have 0 block stats (useless)

2) have 0 Evade stats (useless)

3) have 0 Accuracy stats (useless) ----> Cause accuracy help against 2 useless stats, so it's useless too

 

4) ---> Go only Defense, Crit, Crit Defense (?)

 

Thanks for the diversity... I was hoping for a great PvP World with  many differents stats build, but i was wrong

[Archess]

I think its the reason we only see "go crit" for every class, anyone with proper knowledge about the stats able to add something here ?

[Shuchin]

I have been looking for hard information on this forever, and am still looking.

 

It's not that blocks and evades do not happen in open world PvP, but the rates are totally off, so that either means some attack types (AoE? CC?) cannot be auto-evaded or auto-blocked, or there is some sort of hidden adjustment that has not been published.

 

Given how often you face overwhelming odds in open world, I don't really see the benefit of nerfing defensive stats.

 

If I ever find the time, I will try to test a bit in game with a friend. If you do the same, please be so nice and post your results here as well. :)

[Acelsg]

You guys. Must. Be. Kidding. Me.

 

Whoever said evasion and block dont work is obviously lying.

 

My summoner stacks block (1300+) and evasion(1200+) ontop of defense and she kept blocking/evading this BD who jumped me in Misty Woods...

 

I dont know what crack you guys are on.

[Mandarine]

Uhm, thanks for the post Acelsg.

 

And what about this situation : The BD stuns you, then attack, then makes an air combo

 

----> will you evade any of these hits ?

 

Can you evade Stuns ? Can you evade when you are stuned ? Can you evade in the air?

 

Cause if you can't. You'll be 1 shot combo by many classes, event with 100% evade and block

[Archess]

6 minutes ago, Acelsg said:

You guys. Must. Be. Kidding. Me.

 

Whoever said evasion and block dont work is obviously lying.

 

My summoner stacks block (1300+) and evasion(1200+) ontop of defense and she kept blocking/evading this BD who jumped me in Misty Woods...

 

I dont know what crack you guys are on.

 

Well we aren't finding any information about evasion and block, witch is the cause of not knowing how it works as it surely is not working the same was as in PVE content, you have way less evasion and roughly the same block as my Destroyer, with i am saying works wonders in pve content, i see constant evades and blocks, but when i go to Misty woods my face gets melted without a single evade or block in sight while i should be evading almost 1 out of 2 attacks made against my character.

 

We are not sure how it works, is it maybe only against melee attacks, do skills have innate modifiers to evade or block, maybe its only against the most basic left clicks is what we want to know.

 

Your explantion about crack and lying does not help us to figure out how or why it worked for you against melee

[nothankyou]

OWPvP - HP, Piercing, Defense, and Critical Defense

[Zel]

Evasion stack makes you mostly invincible to fresh 45's trying to grind guards with Infernal weapons so you can 1v24 them. So if that's your thing go for it. Against anyone with and semblance of gear it doesn't do a thing. Accuracy is to easy to come across naturally.

[Mandarine]

2 minutes ago, Starbo said:

OWPvP - HP, Piercing, Defense, and Critical Defense

Critical defense is useless if every OWPvp people don't stack critical ^^

But some of it, just to counter the base crit stat i suppose

[nothankyou]

2 minutes ago, Mandarine said:

Critical defense is useless if every OWPvp people don't stack critical ^^

But some of it, just to counter the base crit stat i suppose

You will be at ~40% crit even with 0 fused crit which is still quite often. You reduce a bunch of crit damage when you stack critical defense. so pretty much even when they crit, it's like they're not critting.

[Mandarine]

3 minutes ago, Zel said:

Evasion stack makes you mostly invincible to fresh 45's trying to grind guards with Infernal weapons so you can 1v24 them. So if that's your thing go for it. Against anyone with and semblance of gear it doesn't do a thing. Accuracy is to easy to come across naturally.

Why ? Most  45 with semblance of gear won't have 130% accuracy ! everyone stop a 105-110

So it can be good in theory.

 

But here we are speaking about "hiding mechanics", where 50%Evasion VS 105% Accuracy doesn't work

[Mandarine]

2 minutes ago, Starbo said:

You will be at ~40% crit even with 0 fused crit which is still quite often. You reduce a bunch of crit damage when you stack critical defense. so pretty much even when they crit, it's like they're not critting.

Ok, thanks for the info ^^

[Shuchin]

If the 8-20% extra accuracy you get with "decent gear" is enough to negate 50% of solid block rate then something needs to be solved there as well.

 

Going for "safe" stats like crit defense also just patches up our ignorance on the real mechanics.

 

Numbers don't add up and we should find out why. ;)

[nothankyou]

Evade and block are too unreliable for OWPvP. You just try to get definite gains rather than by chance, especially if you're not 1v1'ing. Because it's not like you can hit something like 50% block and evade where it could be arguably worth.

But crit defense should probably be first priority, you're literally preventing them from doing 2x damage

[Zel]

8 minutes ago, Mandarine said:

Why ? Most  45 with semblance of gear won't have 130% accuracy ! everyone stop a 105-110

So it can be good in theory.

 

But here we are speaking about "hiding mechanics", where 50%Evasion VS 105% Accuracy doesn't work

 

That's working under the assumption that 100% accuracy and 0% Evasion are baseline values.

[Shuchin]

0 accuracy value actually has a less than 100% hit rate, something 90%ish. 0 evasion value is 0% evasion rate, but some classes like KFM have quite high base evasion value just from level-up.

[XianRen]

1 hour ago, Starbo said:

Evade and block are too unreliable for OWPvP. You just try to get definite gains rather than by chance, especially if you're not 1v1'ing. Because it's not like you can hit something like 50% block and evade where it could be arguably worth.

But crit defense should probably be first priority, you're literally preventing them from doing 2x damage

I can break 43% evasion without a max fuse soul shield or an evasion diamond.  I would suspect if someone want all in on evasion they could break 50%

[Mandarine]

2 hours ago, XianRen said:

I can break 43% evasion without a max fuse soul shield or an evasion diamond.  I would suspect if someone want all in on evasion they could break 50%

 

Yes, a Korean guy made a guide for Assassins. With 70+ Evasion, so he can't get out easily from his stealth in PvP

But I don't know if this is "resent" or not his build, if things have changed

[Quantum]

Do keep in mind that evasion works similar to block.  I had my evasion around 43% and I went to test it on low level mobs.  When I'm facing them my character evaded all their attacks but when I turned my back to them it's like my evasion rate dropped and they began hitting me.  Tested it with players as well, my low level friend couldn't hit me until I turned my back to them.

[Mandarine]

13 hours ago, Quantum said:

Tested it with players as well, my low level friend couldn't hit me until I turned my back to them.

 

Oh nice tests !

 

Can you try with your friend :

 

1) If you are able to Evade or Block a stun, daze, or other?

2) If you can Evade while stunned, daze...

 

----> cause almost every class to their dammage after stunning the oponent. So if you can't do 1) and 2) ---> Evade and Block are quite useless, even if they "work"

 

 

[Shuchin]

concerning 1), this definitely works in PvE because you can avoid being stunned by mobs very well using blocks (and obviously also evades). Would be a bit crazy if it was working entirely differently in PvP, and I am actually pretty sure it does not work differently because, low level against high level, I had several of my CC skills resisted when attacking a high level.

 

2) is something I wondered about as well, because it would make perfect sense if you could not do it while CCed. It would also not mean that they lose their usefulness as they would make the initial CC less likely, meaning the opponent blows an important cooldown for nothing. Of course, if evasion still worked while stunned I would b stacking it no end...

[DRGoodfellow]

I've been playing with block, evasion and defence a lot hence my not having an upgraded axe to siren yet :)

 

I maxed block as best I could to 68% block, it works but doesn't work as well as you would think

Accuracy doesn't seem to work as well as I thought against block but pierce with accuracy will cut through block a lot more

Currently block just doesn't seem to great but may be better in the future updates

 

I then tried evasion - got it to 47% - it had less chance but worked out a lot better in the long run than block since it evaded most attacks were as

block has issues with crits not blocking well and aoe not doing so well

 

I then did a full on defence got it to 52%  noticed the reduction in damage taken easily - I aimed to use defence/crit soul shields to make up for

the lack of attack worked really well imho

 

I have concluded the best build for myself is defence 40%+ evade & block 20%+ and 40% crit

 

I have blocked and evaded while stunned and dazed just doesn't seem to happen as often than normal mode

 

You can easily try this by making an alternative soul shield layout and trying it yourself

 

Still a work in progress but this definitely weighs out the odds better and negates the piercing better

All I need to do now is get my damn weapon sorted out

 

Hope this helps