This is why every one hates summoners

[wolftonrei]

Figured this shitty match (that i was at fault for) summed up everything people usually complains about when they talk about them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ9L-lcB2cE&feature=youtu.be

[LittleBritches2]

LMAO that is amazing. Completely captures this game's shit mechanics. Who the hell thought a 6 second CD invis counter on a ranged pet class was a good idea? Just no...

[Michieltjuhh]

It's an 8 second CD, the duration on the stealth is 6 seconds and he's immune to damage for the first 1.5 seconds after you swing into it. Your best bet's talenting Knee to work against defending opponents. Knee him in the face when he casts it.

[Justsomeone]

but you are a destroyer you can't cry about summoners

[LittleBritches2]

19 minutes ago, Justsomeone said:

but you are a destroyer you can't cry about summoners

Honestly destroyers wouldn't be nearly as bad without the near CC immunity that spin to win gives them. That and MAYBE a very slight damage nerf would balance them. They have some really long cooldowns is their biggest weakness. Definitely not the summoners weakness though haha! 8 second CD counter/stealth that least 6 seconds...crazy stuff on a pet class. Biggest problem with Summoner really is the pets ground grapple. It has a lower cooldown than anyone's tab so even if you spec to escape it, you get completely screwed the second time around. That and sunflower take half or more of anyone's HP if it's a decent summoner. 

[thormond]

1 hour ago, LittleBritches2 said:

Honestly destroyers wouldn't be nearly as bad without the near CC immunity that spin to win gives them. That and MAYBE a very slight damage nerf would balance them. They have some really long cooldowns is their biggest weakness. Definitely not the summoners weakness though haha! 8 second CD counter/stealth that least 6 seconds...crazy stuff on a pet class. Biggest problem with Summoner really is the pets ground grapple. It has a lower cooldown than anyone's tab so even if you spec to escape it, you get completely screwed the second time around. That and sunflower take half or more of anyone's HP if it's a decent summoner. 

Im diamond destroyer and I dont even use iframed red spin in most matchups due how much mana it consumes and how easy it is to get out of it. Even if you do some damage with it you're still wasting enough mana to lose neutral game straight after (at least on plat+, golds won't punish you for it, 90% of them can't even do the right combos)

 

People complaining about red spin are all 1700 or less, it's almost a garbo skill on higher levels (unless you make a play centered around punishing somebody with redspin but even then you gonna run out of mana before killing anyone and die to next combo that you can't defend from due to no fuel), flamewheel is better for iframing and anicancel is more damage (and more mana effective damage), just remove redspin and reduce flamewheel cooldown by half and mby bring backstep in line with other backsteps (8s cd). Not only "spin2win" aestethic on lower levels will be gone but also class will end up stronger overall

 

[Deathshade]

7 hours ago, Michieltjuhh said:

It's an 8 second CD, the duration on the stealth is 6 seconds and he's immune to damage for the first 1.5 seconds after you swing into it. Your best bet's talenting Knee to work against defending opponents. Knee him in the face when he casts it.

 

I would kill for 1.5 s immunity after woodblock. You know... being the actual stealth based class and all.

[wolftonrei]

8 hours ago, LittleBritches2 said:

LMAO that is amazing. Completely captures this game's shit mechanics. Who the hell thought a 6 second CD invis counter on a ranged pet class was a good idea? Just no...

Yes i thought about that as i was editing. At the time though i didn't think i should maybe reallocate some points so that i could guard break, but in all honesty i probably would have had the match if i wasn't so sloppy in execution.

[Roxx]

ok

In the first Round u deserve to loose.

U didnt Skilled ur tab escape for grapple/grab escape -> U deserve to loose

All u did was mostly using spin2 win -> U deserve to loose

Hitting in almost every counter -> U deserve to loose

The green big aoe field does dmg over time and u are standing in it for like 5 seconds and not even trying to go out of this -> U deserve to loose

 

Second Round was ok but yeah nice Bug :D

 

Third Round

Hitting in so many counters -> U deserve to loose

letting him reviving his cat?!?!? -> U deserve to loose

 

then the Stealth Part:

When i fight a scummoners i can see them mostly while they are stealthed.

But sometimes i cant see them too, BUT same thing happens against Assassins.

[wolftonrei]

2 hours ago, Roxx said:

ok

In the first Round u deserve to loose.

U didnt Skilled ur tab escape for grapple/grab escape -> U deserve to loose

All u did was mostly using spin2 win -> U deserve to loose

Hitting in almost every counter -> U deserve to loose

The green big aoe field does dmg over time and u are standing in it for like 5 seconds and not even trying to go out of this -> U deserve to loose

 

Second Round was ok but yeah nice Bug :D

 

Third Round

Hitting in so many counters -> U deserve to loose

letting him reviving his cat?!?!? -> U deserve to loose

 

then the Stealth Part:

When i fight a scummoners i can see them mostly while they are stealthed.

But sometimes i cant see them too, BUT same thing happens against Assassins.

Damn man take a chill pill. First off it's a video more for the sake of hilarity rather then whining and moaning about how broken the class is. It was rather intended to be from the perspective of a less experienced, or lazy player who would rather blame the game for what seems like major faults. I fully admit and have tried to be as open about the fact that I WAS THE ONE WHO *cricket*ED IT UP. Not because the class is "op",but rather because of sloppy play. Even though i have learned to combat summoners and beat them on a regular basis i still don't like fighting them. They tend to be long, drawn out matches with whatever i class i play. So while i appreciate you pointing out the flaws that i already know for other players to see, i do not appreciate the tone of smug superiority as though i should always play perfectly or be garbage otherwise.

[Zooks]

1 hour ago, wolftonrei said:

Damn man take a chill pill. First off it's a video more for the sake of hilarity rather then whining and moaning about how broken the class is. It was rather intended to be from the perspective of a less experienced, or lazy player who would rather blame the game for what seems like major faults. I fully admit and have tried to be as open about the fact that I WAS THE ONE WHO *cricket*ED IT UP. Not because the class is "op",but rather because of sloppy play. Even though i have learned to combat summoners and beat them on a regular basis i still don't like fighting them. They tend to be long, drawn out matches with whatever i class i play. So while i appreciate you pointing out the flaws that i already know for other players to see, i do not appreciate the tone of smug superiority as though i should always play perfectly or be garbage otherwise.

 

Nothing funny about someone posting a video showing how faceroll Summoners are. It hurts their feelings. 

[wolftonrei]

3 hours ago, Zooks said:

 

Nothing funny about someone posting a video showing how faceroll Summoners are. It hurts their feelings. 

Yes because portraying a typical story as told by players in a more exaggerated way is definitely in no way comedic. I tried to make the player more of an antagonist rather then the class in a whole mainly because i fell for almost every single seed shroud, and for the bit where he jumped around my corpse.

[Pacma]

16 hours ago, LittleBritches2 said:

LMAO that is amazing. Completely captures this game's shit mechanics. Who the hell thought a 6 second CD invis counter on a ranged pet class was a good idea? Just no...

well, we also are the squishiest class, have the least health, and die fastest, so i dont see why  a stealth is wrong

[wolftonrei]

1 minute ago, Pacma said:

well, we also are the squishiest class, have the least health, and die fastest, so i dont see why  a stealth is wrong

I think the issue most people have, as well as i, is that if i fall for every single seed shroud you could in theory only have a 2 second gap before you can use it again essentially making one hell of a good stall game coupled with a few roots, a projectile blocker, and a invisible escape. They are also hella hard to knock out of stealth as at least from what i have heard they can essentially become immune for a short duration after a successful use of seed shroud which is the only short few seconds we get to knock them out of it before they bolt off. Otherwise we gotta play good guessing games and hope they didn't just run over to some far away corner to bring there pet back. Fair for the summoner to do so as they are some what gimped without it, but soul crushing for every one else if they can't stop them. 

[SasakiKojiro]

As a plat destroyer (hovering around 2000) it is pretty simplistic to beat summoners. Start by simply walking up to them and Typhoon. This will probably lead the summoner to SS OR try stealthing through hitting the dandelion. One thing to note is that if the summoner did not spec his dandelion then your Typhoon will just ignore it. If they did spec just SS and spin till they appear. Watch carefully at this point. Assuming the summoner is good he will have most likely anticipated you will either throw your axe or jump on him. They will have most likely activated their resist. If they did you can either simply run up to them avoiding their snares by constantly tabbing or just stay out of range. If they didn't activate their resist throw your axe and attempt to use their 2nd stealth by using 4 and knocking them up and piledriving. Assuming you were able to piledrive just activate Fury and ani-cancel/stun lock them. If they did stealth out of your 4 SS again and once he appears watch for the dandelion (shits got only 8 second CD non spec'd). If the summoner is not holding it jump on him activate Fury and ani-cancel/stun lock them for the win. Remember summoners are insanely squishy with only 40k hp. That means with Fury + a stun your X if spec'd will do 10k dmg. Instant 1/4 of their HP gone. The ani-cancel and the rest of the stun lock will do the rest.

 

Another thing is that whenever you are CC'd ALWAYS TAB whenever you can otherwise the cat will sit on you and there goes 60% of your HP. Never use your shield to heal unless you are far away from cat or the cat is in a meditative state. The cat will simply knock you down and sit on you if you keep your shield up next to it.

[Pacma]

6 minutes ago, wolftonrei said:

I think the issue most people have, as well as i, is that if i fall for every single seed shroud you could in theory only have a 2 second gap before you can use it again essentially making one hell of a good stall game coupled with a few roots, a projectile blocker, and a invisible escape. They are also hella hard to knock out of stealth as at least from what i have heard they can essentially become immune for a short duration after a successful use of seed shroud which is the only short few seconds we get to knock them out of it before they bolt off. Otherwise we gotta play good guessing games and hope they didn't just run over to some far away corner to bring there pet back. Fair for the summoner to do so as they are some what gimped without it, but soul crushing for every one else if they can't stop them. 

you can also pierce seed shroud you know right? it happens pretty often and most summoners incudign me dnt have seed shroud specced

[wolftonrei]

5 minutes ago, Pacma said:

you can also pierce seed shroud you know right? it happens pretty often and most summoners incudign me dnt have seed shroud specced

i did not know that. I suppose now that i think about it is the poof cloud bigger when hit if it is specced into seed shroud? Cause otherwise how could i tell if it is or not? But i do know they can be pierced as any defense can.

[wolftonrei]

9 minutes ago, SasakiKojiro said:

As a plat destroyer (hovering around 2000) it is pretty simplistic to beat summoners. Start by simply walking up to them and Typhoon. This will probably lead the summoner to SS OR try stealthing through hitting the dandelion. One thing to note is that if the summoner did not spec his dandelion then your Typhoon will just ignore it. If they did spec just SS and spin till they appear. Watch carefully at this point. Assuming the summoner is good he will have most likely anticipated you will either throw your axe or jump on him. They will have most likely activated their resist. If they did you can either simply run up to them avoiding their snares by constantly tabbing or just stay out of range. If they didn't activate their resist throw your axe and attempt to use their 2nd stealth by using 4 and knocking them up and piledriving. Assuming you were able to piledrive just activate Fury and ani-cancel/stun lock them. If they did stealth out of your 4 SS again and once he appears watch for the dandelion (shits got only 8 second CD non spec'd). If the summoner is not holding it jump on him activate Fury and ani-cancel/stun lock them for the win. Remember summoners are insanely squishy with only 40k hp. That means with Fury + a stun your X if spec'd will do 10k dmg. Instant 1/4 of their HP gone. The ani-cancel and the rest of the stun lock will do the rest.

 

Another thing is that whenever you are CC'd ALWAYS TAB whenever you can otherwise the cat will sit on you and there goes 60% of your HP. Never use your shield to heal unless you are far away from cat or the cat is in a meditative state. The cat will simply knock you down and sit on you if you keep your shield up next to it.

YES! Thank you for leaving this helpful advice for every one to use. I wish more people would spend less time hate mongering over summoners and more time over spreading the news that they are not an infallible faceroll class. It is more of a simple class to play as generally they have less cogs in the metaphorical machine that need to turn for something decent, and most of there skills at base are good in of them selves changing very little as compared to other classes skill trees. So it's easier for new guy johnny to pick one up and be decent at it cause almost anything he puts points in is going to be beneficial in some way. At least that is the general jist of looking over there skill trees.

[Pacma]

34 minutes ago, wolftonrei said:

i did not know that. I suppose now that i think about it is the poof cloud bigger when hit if it is specced into seed shroud? Cause otherwise how could i tell if it is or not? But i do know they can be pierced as any defense can.

poof cloud? you mean the dandilion? when its specced, it can still be peiced, it just decreases damage that you take by half when you peirce it. or just adds a sheild. i dont know exctly how to peirce but every class has seemed to peirce my seed alot. you can pierce it just as eay if its specced, if its specced, it just creates sheild, or heals

[wolftonrei]

20 minutes ago, Pacma said:

poof cloud? you mean the dandilion? when its specced, it can still be peiced, it just decreases damage that you take by half when you peirce it. or just adds a sheild. i dont know exctly how to peirce but every class has seemed to peirce my seed alot. you can pierce it just as eay if its specced, if its specced, it just creates sheild, or heals

ok here is the jist. I just read the tooltip for seed shroud and this is what it does naturally that people complain the most about. Seed shroud has an 8 second cool down with a 1.5 cast time costing 1 focus. If seed shroud is successful you resist all damage and status effects for 1.5 seconds, recover 4 focus, and become stealthed for 6 seconds. It can be specced to reduce damage taken from a pierce( a red destro spin, or kfm foot stomp) by 50% which can be extented to stealth as well, or if seed shroud fails instead giving 25% of the summoners health as a shield for three seconds. Now whether or not that means maximum hp or current hp i can't say. What i felt you were saying was that you had to spec into that 1.5 second resistance and was confused.

[Pacma]

2 minutes ago, wolftonrei said:

ok here is the jist. I just read the tooltip for seed shroud and this is what it does naturally that people complain the most about. Seed shroud has an 8 second cool down with a 1.5 cast time costing 1 focus. If seed shroud is successful you resist all damage and status effects for 1.5 seconds, recover 4 focus, and become stealthed for 6 seconds. It can be specced to reduce damage taken from a pierce( a red destro spin, or kfm foot stomp) by 50% which can be extented to stealth as well, or if seed shroud fails instead giving 25% of the summoners health as a shield for three seconds. Now whether or not that means maximum hp or current hp i can't say.

yeah idk about the 25% hp thing. but id rather choose it other than the other thing

[wolftonrei]

2 minutes ago, Pacma said:

yeah idk about the 25% hp thing. but id rather choose it other than the other thing

Probably your best bet seeing as some stuns can pierce it as well and i would think that the shield would carry over seeing as it did technically fail. So a reduced piercing strike and at least a good shield are far better then taking less damage while in stealth and a minor heal.