THERE is no way

[Shukran]

to beat a FM as a KFM.

 

no way.

 

if u win it means you are better than FM.

fullstop.

 

you have not enough counters to all those freezes. i tested every kind of setup. but as long as u cannot aim at him, u have to abuse SS, which has a CDR. and FM has a cc breaker + ice stuff that heals him.

 

ok rant over. ladder time again.

[Roxefeller]

Trick is, you have to close the gap and capitalize on that gap closure. Not just let them root you and re-open the gap.

[Magichan]

15 minutes ago, Shukran said:

if u win it means you are better than FM.

Isn't that the point?

[Shukran]

i know the theory.

calming down a bit-

 

it is not that simple to close the gap when opponent can root you so u cannot face him.

not that simple when he slowes you. considerin the amount of dots he puts on you.

moreover, he has a Q, E, SS too right? which are meant to make distance.

 

said that,

i dont get what AVENGING FIRST 3 points middle brach are meant to do. i mean: i counter, RMB = skill on place. kappa?

 

reading a guide i put 2 points in triple kick. shame on me, ffs i rarely fight against FM that actually try to use defences while close to me.

 

all this "tricky" stuff and effort spent in making him waste his escape etc to see him beating you by jump strafe auto attack?

 

 

@Magichan: no. the point is that same skilled player KFM has to put so much effort to close the gap and be flawlessly damaging, while FM just has to CC you and jump AA around you.

so the point is "skill ceiling is frustrating". yeah i can reassume this way.

 

edit: i am improving, i never said i am a proplayer etc. just to be sure smartasses stay quiet

[Nachtdrache]

Just curious, I know they have a lot of CC escapes but have you tried making a build the mostly utilizes your aircombos?

 

I know on BM I can go on the defensive and basically just aircombo them since they CC escape from everything else.

[Cogbyrn]

Everyone is so caught up in a tizzy about how much effort they perceive the other guy to be putting into the fight.  Like because a fight was frustrating, the other guy must have done something blisteringly easy to kill you.  I just don't get it.

[Shukran]

no

actually i didnt think about an aircombo build.

 

but maybe it is because above problems i have, aka cannot aim at him and when i can he easily escape.

 

can you answer my question about avenging fist?

[Enamour]

Not making a snarky remark (genuine question) but have you tried predicting  the freeze (generally Z ice aoe thingy) and putting your back to them so you can SS out of it while doubling it as a gap closer? This is just going off of instinct I guess so it'd require you to know when they wanna freeze you.

[Shukran]

no

the amount of ranged shots they send on me is too much to understand which one is ther freze. also, im pretty sure some of their shots that cc (snare, slow, freeze) actually cc me weven if i counter. only the damage seems to vbe coutnered.

the onmly thing i can "predict" in the icy ball on his head or when they want to escape from their icy barrier XD

[Cogbyrn]

@Shukran Here's a breakdown as far as I know things:

 

On your 3rd stack of Chill, you will be Frozen, and your Chill stacks are removed until more are applied.

 

An FM's Ice Z is the blue ice coil that shows up under your feet.  It's an instant cast, so when you see it, it's because it was used.  Not that it's about to hit you.  You'd have to anticipate it to dodge it.  For 3 skill points, it will apply 1 stack of Chill.  This ability pierces Defense and Deflect, so it won't trigger your Counter.  30 second cooldown.

 

The RMB applies 1 stack of Chill, and it's a small blue projectile.  For 4 skill points, your Chill stacks last 10 seconds on this ability instead of the usual 6.  Specced, costs 1 Focus.

 

The Ice F is a rapid series of small blue projectiles, and for 2 skill points, it will apply 1 stack of chill when used (even though you're hit by multiple projectiles).  For 3 skill points, the Chill application will pierce Defense and Deflection, so Counter will trigger from the projectile, but it seems you'll still be Chilled for 1 stack.  Procs on critting with an Ice ability.

 

The Ice X is a larger blue projectile, and for 2 skill points, it will break your Defensive ability.  For 3 skill points, it will also Freeze you for 5 seconds on canceling your Defensive ability.  For 4 skill points, it will also disable your Defense ability for 6 seconds upon breaking your defensive ability.  So if you get Ice X'd during your Counter, odds are you're about to feel a chain of CC.  Be wary of that.  24 second cooldown.

 

FM's 3 also Freezes for 5 seconds and stuns for 2 seconds.  The typical build has 3 skill points into this to give it the stun.  36 second cooldown.

 

EDIT - I forgot, if you spec 2 points into Ice Tab, you can freeze enemies in an AoE upon exiting the form.  So in short, if an FM is in their Ice shield (the long duration one with double dragons), you want to not attack, and you want to stay away, at least 5m.  1 minute cooldown.

 

Frost Orbit is the little blue ball floating around the FM.  Upon hitting them, you'll be Chilled for 1 stack (it appears, regardless of # of orbits), and they'll recover Focus (they get more per orb floating around them, up to 3).

 

So there you go.  For 16 skill points, an FM can get their chill on in those ways.  With more skill points, you'll probably be seeing things like this a lot more since right now, FM is stretched pretty damn thin.  Hopefully that helps your understanding though.  It certainly started to give me some ideas as I was typing it all out/looking it up.

[Shukran]

@Cogbyrn i appreciate. the more i read your post the weaker and hopeless i feel when i am going to fight FM.

can u explain me kfm's avenging fist 3 points middle branch?

[Cogbyrn]

22 minutes ago, Shukran said:

@Cogbyrn i appreciate. the more i read your post the weaker and hopeless i feel when i am going to fight FM.

can u explain me kfm's avenging fist 3 points middle branch?

 

Unfortunately I don't know much at all about KFM.  Sometimes they take me to Pleasuretown, sometimes I do the same for them.  I'm working on my own personal ability to follow chill stacks and appropriately combo multiple Impact stuns on Frozen targets (since Impact removes Freeze when it stuns), so I haven't gotten to the intricacies of other classes yet.  Every once in a while I'll watch a tutorial video though on how to play against Class X, and I'll find out a new amazing thing that completely changes the struggle I had with a particular matchup.  As long as I give up multiple other things to get it.  For example, I just put together an Ice-based build, and I had to give up my air juggle ability entirely to get there.

 

Which I know isn't necessarily a good idea, but I'm going to focus on working with my Chills for a while.

 

Good luck though on figuring out a strategy.  Some of the most fun I'm having is feeling like I run into a wall, then making a discovery of a thing I can do that works.  I feel like the first human to intentionally start a fire or something.

[XER0SIGHT]

You don't beat a FM with CC's you beat FM's with combos.

 

CC's are just the cherry on top of things.

 

Like most people here, closing the gap is key and I'm sure you've done your research as to which are those moves.

 

In terms of actually killing FM's it's all about getting up close and personal.

- Footwork (E) to proc Triple Kick (RMB)

- Once they're stunned, 3RF like there's no tomorrow.

- As soon as they come out of 3RF, SS back to Smite (F).

- Rinse and repeat.

- Profit. All day errr day.

 

Oh yeah...

- Save your Ice Guard (Tab) for when you really need it.

 

 

[Shukran]

@XER0SIGHT

 

do you know how avenging fist 3 points middle branch works?

[Ari-Shadow]

20 hours ago, Shukran said:

to beat a FM as a KFM.

 

no way.

 

if u win it means you are better than FM.

fullstop.

 

you have not enough counters to all those freezes. i tested every kind of setup. but as long as u cannot aim at him, u have to abuse SS, which has a CDR. and FM has a cc breaker + ice stuff that heals him.

 

ok rant over. ladder time again.

KFM imba please nerf.

 

[OMGLOL]

20 hours ago, Shukran said:

to beat a FM as a KFM.

 

no way.

 

if u win it means you are better than FM.

fullstop.

 

you have not enough counters to all those freezes. i tested every kind of setup. but as long as u cannot aim at him, u have to abuse SS, which has a CDR. and FM has a cc breaker + ice stuff that heals him.

 

ok rant over. ladder time again.

 

plat kfm here, can confirm.

 

every, single, person, who tries to argue it's better player wins, no shit, except fm has a 500% easier time with the skillset, same thing in situations of destroyer vs summoner, bd vs any class(except kfm) etc.

[Shukran]

it seems like you two trolls came a bit too late to the party.

 

try to read further posts under. they will shock you.

[OMGLOL]

1 minute ago, Shukran said:

it seems like you two trolls came a bit too late to the party.

 

try to read further posts under. they will shock you.

nah, i just rolled a destroyer a week ago and roflspinned my way to plat too

[Cogbyrn]

Out of curiosity, what are the evades/resists that a KFM has?  Instead of thinking about it from the perspective of "you're already frozen", what about thinking through the scenario where you keep yourself from becoming frozen?  If you notice 2x Chill stacks, maybe try to initiate one of those aerial combos, or some other long-duration combo to run the Chill stacks out, resetting yourself to 0 stacks.

 

Which makes me realize I forgot another freeze source.  For 2 skill points, you can spec SS to break stun/knockdown/daze/unconscious and freeze in a small AoE (3m).  Be careful of that one or anticipate it if you are going in for a stun combo.  This investment increases the cooldown of SS to 36 seconds from 16 seconds.

[kuro1n]

So playing FM I can say that the most scary KFM make sure to burn my trinket (and preferably tech) then start their crazy combos. If it gets to this point and the KFM knows what he's doing I will not leave the combo until dead. I have witnessed this myself on several occasions. Also try to stay calm when playing a FM, they might throw a lot of shit at you but most of it doesn't hurt at all.

[XER0SIGHT]

2 hours ago, Shukran said:

@XER0SIGHT

 

do you know how avenging fist 3 points middle branch works?

I don't use the middle path personally. But I was told if you can counter right before you freeze you can RMB and escape the root.