When can we expect an optimization overhaul?

[BeardedBourbon]

So, this question is a result of a large series of notes I'm taking down on bugs and stuff that needs to be fixed as I play the game but this is a question that needs to be addressed yesterday. I'll be posting the entire first part of my notes later on once I reach level 45. Anyway...

 

This game has a severe inconsistency across all types of machines featuring all types of hardware and software. The poor performance that I, and many other players, am getting out of my machine feels like I'm being subjected to Bloodlust's very own version of a silicon lottery.

 

I'd like to ask, on behalf of everyone suffering this, for an ETA or a sitrep on the conversations of optimization going around the dev office right now or how high on the priority list game optimization is for the team of community managers to bring up to the devs.

 

I'd argue that I'm a very patient person. I pioneered a wave of reasonable expectation throughout the entire fallout that was the Headstart as well as the server transfers and Founder Pack blunders. However, I have a hard time biting my tongue on issues pertaining to game performance and right now, it is exceptionally hard.

 

Typically for MMOs, I've had a pretty high tolerance for sub-60, hell, even sub-30 FPS because they're not really platforms which you need a lot of adroitness or finger dexterity. However, I'm pleasantly surprised by the excellent PVP this game has brought to the table. Coming from someone who has played MMO's since Devious MUD and has only EVER liked PVE, I can tell you that Blade and Soul has convinced me to become a PVP'er and I'm enjoying it.

 

That said, the FPS is not tolerable even by my measures. Aside from the need for speed during PVP (which given my history, I CAN have a pass on though I'd still like to try it out), I don't know how I'm expected to participate in 25-man PVE raids (sourced from a community manager livestream) during the final end-game (post all content releases) when I'm hitting an absolute low of 6 FPS (That's a single digit) during 8-man fights at Lycan the Mighty. That is just unacceptable to me.

 

To any player reading, I understand that you might have a small urge to give me some tips, but I promise you that nothing can be done to my computer at this point to make it perform better.

 

I take pride in saying that my computer is a low high-end computer (low on the high-end spectrum) and I have the utmost confidence that my computer should be capable of playing this game better than I currently am.

 

TL;DR: I'd like a status update on the current inter-office conglomerations regarding this game's performance.

 

Much love,

-Bourbon

[Olivar]

what are your specs?

Cause I'm running on a steady 60FPS with vsync on my hardware, and haven't noticed any drops whatsoever in FPS.

Guildies are even running steady on 100FPS.

 

This game even runs fairly smooth on my laptop.

I know a lot of MMO's that don't even have this performance.

[ImHeartless]

1 minute ago, Olivar said:

what are your specs?

Cause I'm running on a steady 60FPS with vsync on my hardware, and haven't noticed any drops whatsoever in FPS.

Guildies are even running steady on 100FPS.

 

This game even runs fairly smooth on my laptop.

I know a lot of MMO's that don't even have this performance.

 

 

i call bullshit

 

i have a fx8350 and a hd7950, granted not the newest of the new, still able to run all new games on 60fps high-ultra 1080p minus shadows sometimes, but BnS runs with 60fps in pvp, 20-40fps in towns, 10fps in bossfights, unaccceptable. And there is NO difference between lowest and highest settings, all give the same amount of FPS. Wanna say its a hardware issue then ?

 

Its the *cricket*ing engine, tera has the same problem.

 

[BeardedBourbon]

11 minutes ago, Olivar said:

what are your specs?

Cause I'm running on a steady 60FPS with vsync on my hardware, and haven't noticed any drops whatsoever in FPS.

Guildies are even running steady on 100FPS.

 

This game even runs fairly smooth on my laptop.

I know a lot of MMO's that don't even have this performance.

Well, just for amusement, my specs are as follows:

 

Sapphire R9 290 Vapor-X

AMD 6300 @ 4.2Ghz

16GB @ 1866

Win 7 Ult, 64-Bit

 

As I said, there are severe inconsistencies across all forms and combinations. In fact, as hard as it is to get my exact card now, I've seen 3 testimonies from 3 people with my exact same configuration; 1 other person with similar performance to mine and 2 others with significantly higher performance.

 

Despite all this talk about ASUS and Razer products, these aren't going to affect the game at a core level. There may be some incompatibility that cause crashes... but I'm not crashing. My system is stable by all definitions.

[2501]

10 fps? Doesn't seem normal. I run i5-3570k + hd7850ghz edition + 16gb ddr3. I don't think I've ever dropped below 25 fps on max settings (Although maybe I just failed to notice slight drops, but never 10fps).

 

[Navhkrin]

HD7850 - Medium settings , 60fps stable except some rare areas where it falls to 28.

Game is optimized well enough

[ImHeartless]

3 minutes ago, 2501 said:

10 fps? Doesn't seem normal. I run i5-3570k + hd7850ghz edition + 16gb ddr3. I don't think I've ever dropped below 25 fps on max settings (Although maybe I just failed to notice slight drops, but never 10fps).

 

so you think its ok for a game that is several years old with a oldish engine to only run with 25fps with your speccs ?

[2501]

2 minutes ago, ImHeartless said:

so you think its ok for a game that is several years old with a oldish engine to only run with 25fps with your speccs ?

 

Yea, most games run at that rate. Witcher 3 on almost high runs the same. I have no probs with 30-60 fps. This hardware is also 5 years old.

 

[Olivar]

10 minutes ago, ImHeartless said:

 

i call bullshit

 

i have a fx8350 and a hd7950, granted not the newest of the new, still able to run all new games on 60fps high-ultra 1080p minus shadows sometimes, but BnS runs with 60fps in pvp, 20-40fps in towns, 10fps in bossfights, unaccceptable. And there is NO difference between lowest and highest settings, all give the same amount of FPS. Wanna say its a hardware issue then ?

 

Its the *cricket*ing engine, tera has the same problem.

 

 

6 minutes ago, BeardedBourbon said:

Well, just for amusement, my specs are as follows:

 

Sapphire R9 290 Vapor-X

AMD 6300 @ 4.2Ghz

16GB @ 1866

Win 7 Ult, 64-Bit

 

As I said, there are severe inconsistencies across all forms and combinations. In fact, as hard as it is to get my exact card now, I've seen 3 testimonies from 3 people with my exact same configuration; 1 other person with similar performance to mine and 2 others with significantly higher performance.

 

Despite all this talk about ASUS and Razer products, these aren't going to affect the game at a core level. There may be some incompatibility that cause crashes... but I'm not crashing. My system is stable by all definitions.

 

Both of you seem to be running AMD hardware.

I'm running the following specs:

• Intel i5 4670K OC'd at 4.2GHz
• 16GB DDR3 Corsair Dominator
• Gigabyte G1 Sniper m5 mainboard
• Gigabyte GTC 760 4gb Windforce

This really reminds me of Wildstar that didn't like AMD hardware either and performed poorly on said systems.

More then happy to stream live tonight to show you my FPS

[ImHeartless]

Just now, 2501 said:

 

Yea, most games run at that rate. Witcher 3 on almost high runs the same. I have no probs with 30-60 fps.

 

you compare witcher on high 60fps with bns on everything low 10fps for me ? good joke, stop licking ncsofts you know what

[2501]

Just now, ImHeartless said:

you compare witcher on high 60fps with bns on everything low 10fps for me ? good joke, stop licking ncsofts you know what

 

No, I just said TW3 runs at the same framerate on med-high, as BnS does on max. Drop the attitude.

[BeardedBourbon]

3 minutes ago, Olivar said:

 

 

Both of you seem to be running AMD hardware.

I'm running the following specs:

• Intel i5 4670K OC'd at 4.2GHz
• 16GB DDR3 Corsair Dominator
• Gigabyte G1 Sniper m5 mainboard
• Gigabyte GTC 760 4gb Windforce

This really reminds me of Wildstar that didn't like AMD hardware either and performed poorly on said systems.

More then happy to stream live tonight to show you my FPS

You're missing the point I was mentioning. The performance statistics are completely inconsistent with average issues of players not having good hardware. I've seen 2 cases of my same exact build who have significantly greater performance than myself. I'm seen people with Furys having issues and people with Furys not having issues at all.

[Olivar]

1 minute ago, BeardedBourbon said:

You're missing the point I was mentioning. The performance statistics are completely inconsistent with average issues of players not having good hardware. I've seen 2 cases of my same exact build who have significantly greater performance than myself. I'm seen people with Furys having issues and people with Furys not having issues at all.

 

Then the Fury hardware is not the problem but something else.

If the engine/game didn't like a piece of hardware like the Fury, ALL systems would be affected.

[Lilynetto]

15 minutes ago, BeardedBourbon said:

Well, just for amusement, my specs are as follows:

 

Sapphire R9 290 Vapor-X

AMD 6300 @ 4.2Ghz

16GB @ 1866

Win 7 Ult, 64-Bit

 

As I said, there are severe inconsistencies across all forms and combinations. In fact, as hard as it is to get my exact card now, I've seen 3 testimonies from 3 people with my exact same configuration; 1 other person with similar performance to mine and 2 others with significantly higher performance.

 

Despite all this talk about ASUS and Razer products, these aren't going to affect the game at a core level. There may be some incompatibility that cause crashes... but I'm not crashing. My system is stable by all definitions.

Oh yes, I know that feeling. I've tried everything I can, redownloaded graph updates, checked my system and then seen that the optimization is pretty *cricket*ed up with this game. Besides, I'm having high ping as well when it shouldnt be. I dont know, my will is dying to keep playing the game.

[Lurkios]

50 minutes ago, BeardedBourbon said:

TL;DR: I'd like a status update on the current inter-office conglomerations regarding this game's performance.

 

Much love,

-Bourbon

 

I know it's not the answer you want, but it is the answer: The game is pretty much as good as it's going to get "optimization" wise. The Unreal 3 engine is no longer in development, it's not being improved - what we have is what we have. The devs can't wave any optimization stick around and make it go faster. Disregarding some potential issues with specific hardware, localizations, NA patches, etc. etc. - if your performance isn't where you want it, you're going to need better hardware. That's all there is to it.

 

TL;DR: Toaster isn't going to cut it.

 

EDIT: The "recommended" specs for the game are a joke. What they consider "minimum" is "The game will launch." and the "recommended" specs are enough to get you 30fps on character select, maybe. In reality anything less than a GTX 760, a 2.8GHz quad-core processor and 4 gigs of ram is going to be unplayable in many areas, and for a "good" experience you're going to want something closer to a GTX 970, 3.6GHz+ on the proc and 8 gigs of decent ram.

[BeardedBourbon]

3 minutes ago, Lurkios said:

 

I know it's not the answer you want, but it is the answer: The game is pretty much as good as it's going to get "optimization" wise. The Unreal 3 engine is no longer in development, it's not being improved - what we have is what we have. The devs can't wave any optimization stick around and make it go faster. Disregarding some potential issues with specific hardware, localizations, NA patches, etc. etc. - if your performance isn't where you want it, you're going to need better hardware. That's all there is to it.

 

TL;DR: Toaster isn't going to cut it.

Except that it doesn't matter whether or not the Unreal Engine (3) is being improved upon by Unreal at all. The developer's still use the SDK for it meaning they can make the changes themselves. The SDK is open-ended. It's not like once URE moves on, all previous versions are left null and void and un-usable by the developers.

 

The best version of Blade and Soul (optimization wise) was the TW client. Their locale team, whatever they did, did an amazing job. Despite having to deal with the (expected) 200+ ping to play it, the game ran flawlessly.

 

Side note: I'm not running a toaster.

 

Secondary note: There are people running extremely high-end machines and still knocking up single digits.

[Retsopmi]

Every MMO made has this same thread. One group claiming it's the engines fault, another group claims it's the hardware, while another group has no problems at all. In reality 90% of the time it's a pebcak error.

Yes your hardware is probably fine. No your software setup isn't. The only way to find if it's a engine issue is if you do it on a clean install, in a controlled setting. 

 

My current system is

I74770k

GTX780 EVGA Classified

8gigs 1600

 

This current computer has no issues with frame rate on this game. I let it do the auto detect, and I get a constant 100+ fps at 1080. I did turn off the auto adjust checkbox so the engine wouldn't try and dynamically change the settings on the fly. The only time I've seen the FPS drop is if I have multiple things going on on my other monitor, like streams or videos, and even then it's only a marginal drop.

 

The point is it's not the engine. If it was the engine, then everyone would have issues. It's not the hardware cause everyone who has that hardware would have issues. What does that leave? The computer software suit and the person between the chair and keyboard.

[Lurkios]

1 minute ago, BeardedBourbon said:

Except that it doesn't matter whether or not the Unreal Engine (3) is being improved upon by Unreal at all. The developer's still use the SDK for it meaning they can make the changes themselves. The SDK is open-ended. It's not like once URE moves on, all previous versions are left null and void and un-usable by the developers.

 

The best version of Blade and Soul (optimization wise) was the TW client. Their locale team, whatever they did, did an amazing job. Despite having to deal with the (expected) 200+ ping to play it, the game ran flawlessly.

 

Side note: I'm not running a toaster.

 

Secondary note: There are people running extremely high-end machines and still knocking up single digits.

 

Sorry, after this many years Bloodlust isn't going to turn around and start trying to overhaul UE3 - and our localization team certainly isn't going to. That's just not realistic.

 

Side note: You're running an AMD chip/card. AMD hasn't been an optimal choice for gaming in nearly a decade. Incompatibilities, performance issues, etc. etc... They still haven't figured out how to driver.

 

Secondary: Yes, it is possible to have a very pricey, poorly configured system. (Again, excluding any specific incompatibilities.)

[BeardedBourbon]

7 minutes ago, Lurkios said:

 

Sorry, after this many years Bloodlust isn't going to turn around and start trying to overhaul UE3 - and our localization team certainly isn't going to. That's just not realistic.

 

Side note: You're running an AMD chip/card. AMD hasn't been an optimal choice for gaming in nearly a decade. Incompatibilities, performance issues, etc. etc... They still haven't figured out how to driver.

 

Secondary: Yes, it is possible to have a very pricey, poorly configured system. (Again, excluding any specific incompatibilities.)

Well, the point is to ask and create awareness; not spend $125 and willingly decide not to provide input about the product. I clearly can't do anything. If you hadn't noticed by the premise of this post, I asked for status which Hime and a few others have willingly been dropping tidbits of.

[Retsopmi]

It's great to try and create awareness, though that isn't done through asking for optimization to something that might not even need it. If the engine as a whole is working, and the surveys in game as this question, for the majority of people. Then the ones having issues have to have an outside source for the issue.

 

So instead of calling for changes or optimization, start a thread that data mines. Finds out specs, anti virus, random software, all things that help pinpoint issues much better than blaming the engine. There are games that have had issues for anyone with Winamp installed before. Steam has vac banned people for having a children's game installed. The point is there are millions of possibilities and chances are the engine is low on the list.

[BeardedBourbon]

14 minutes ago, Retsopmi said:

It's great to try and create awareness, though that isn't done through asking for optimization to something that might not even need it. If the engine as a whole is working, and the surveys in game as this question, for the majority of people. Then the ones having issues have to have an outside source for the issue.

 

So instead of calling for changes or optimization, start a thread that data mines. Finds out specs, anti virus, random software, all things that help pinpoint issues much better than blaming the engine. There are games that have had issues for anyone with Winamp installed before. Steam has vac banned people for having a children's game installed. The point is there are millions of possibilities and chances are the engine is low on the list.

Welp, once more; asking for status. Who knows? Perhaps they've already gotten the data they needed to create a hypothesis. I wouldn't know. I'm not within the inner circles of development and community management.

 

To completely dismiss engine optimization would be silly because I have quite a few other URE 3 games in my Steam Library; all which cooperate with my hardware quite nicely. I'm fairly certain I'm not the only one here either.

 

Might there be a software issue pertaining to BnS via URE 3? Very possible but unless it's proven, it's all conjecture considering the evidence I have of my own accord from playing other URE 3 games. Despite the engine being the same, it's certainly possible that a dev team (or a locale team for that matter) buggered something up.

 

At the same time that people are saying that they're not having issues and getting 100 frames, what's preventing them from the extra 20 to cap at 120 or what about overhead frames? Those people have said it themselves; this game is old and isn't difficult to run. What's preventing those additional frames (assuming that they're running at the client-allowed 120 FPS cap)?

 

Just because a player has enjoyable/acceptable (for their tastes) performance DOESN'T mean that there isn't something wrong. It's the same argument that because someone is skinny, you might assume that they have a healthy diet when (more often than not, if you could believe it) they don't and actually have some minor to serious health complications. Sure, perhaps I shouldn't assume that there's something wrong with the (Blade and Soul configuration of the) engine but it shouldn't be assumed in reverse either.

 

Whatever the case, all I'm asking for is status. ARE they planning an update for optimization? HAVE they data mined and come up with a hypothesis? HAVE they decided not to do anything about it?

 

Considering that they're deciding to put themselves through the trouble of communicating with the devs at all to improve some things, it wouldn't necessarily be out of the ballpark to ask the devs about improving performance based on their surveyed information dumps.

 

Nothing can be learned without ASKING which is what I'm doing.

[Retsopmi]

I'll address this paragraph by paragraph since quoting doesn't work well for me right now.

 

First, only they can answer, but I wouldn't hold out for it.

 

It's not silly at all. Your logic is that because one UE3 game works they all should work equally well. That is just flawed and naive. The engine is only the base of the game. It is not the entirety of the game. Also I've explained how the millions of different software combinations can have major affects on games. Also I doubt you are the only one, I just don't think you and anyone else like you, are the majority. I would venture the people having issues fall into the 5% mark, as with most MMO's. 

 

Again, your logic is flawed. Basically you are saying that if you drive two cars of the same make and model, that they should operate equally even if the owners don't maintain them the same. Which is just wrong. Computers are the same way and the fact that others who have your hardware have no issues shows that it's not the game, but rather something on your system that interacts with it. Ego aside, it's the most likely answer.

 

Because no game is made with current gen systems in mind. The point is to allow for growth of hardware without having to expand the software upfront. Single player games don't care about this because they are one and done games. MMO's on the other hand, who's goal is to last years, need to have that put in place.

 

Taste aside, 60fps is standard for acceptable performance on a PC. Anything above that is just dude measuring manhoods. Again, I think your ego is just getting in the way. 

 

But you're not just asking for an update. You came in with an opening paragraph stating that you have "notes" and that based on your "notes" this game needs optimization. That's not asking for an update. That's assuming you know what the issue is, Then you stroke your ego about Fallout 4, assuming that somehow matters when you fail to grasp simple engine difference concepts, to make it seem like your assumption is even more valid.

 

So I'll just bluntly say it. Learn to computer. Get your software environment running better, and be amazed at the lack of issues you will actually have with games.

[Mokiki]

At least for me my pc seems to struggle once I have 6+ people on my screen attacking stuff. Other than that it seems to run smooth until zones feature heavy "atmospheric" effect which just make the whole game sluggish. The only thing I can guess is that the game has some issues with my setup because I run other mmos like FFXIV for example without any problems.

 

PC Spec:

i7 4790k @4GHz

16GB Ram

GTX980Ti

Win7

[ImHeartless]

3 minutes ago, Mokiki said:

At least for me my pc seems to struggle once I have 6+ people on my screen attacking stuff. Other than that it seems to run smooth until zones feature heavy "atmospheric" effect which just make the whole game sluggish. The only thing I can guess is that the game has some issues with my setup because I run other mmos like FFXIV for example without any problems.

 

PC Spec:

i7 4790k @4GHz

16GB Ram

GTX980Ti

Win7

 

Oh guys, wanna say this guy has shit speccs too ? i7 struggling with 6 people and you call people out on not knowing how to use thier computer hahaha, ncsoft youknowwhat lickers.... ffxiv is alot alot alot more intensive than bns, yet he plays it fine, and a 4years old game on a normally really good engine runs like crap once he hits 6ppl on screen, thats like every zone ever...

[enem]

2 minutes ago, ImHeartless said:

i7 struggling with 6 people and you call people out on not knowing how to use thier computer hahaha

 

and as counterpoint I have zero issues running this game/engine on a highend i7 machine at high resolution. 20 or 30 players on screen in a field boss fight and it's still running 60fps.   it's not across the board unoptimized, there's apparently some configurations that aren't performing optimally - be that the hardware or the software environment.  

 

to be honest I don't think we should expect any engine optimisation however it doesn't hurt to ask to see if it's on their radar.