Destroying Entire Class

[Shekinah]

I have no idea about FM, don't play that class.

But on a general note, to basically everyone in this thread, if something is wrong with the class also tell NC why you think what and how it's destroyed. Cause all I see is people crying about how the bad stupid developers destroyed their precious little class. But not how.

[Gekaikotan]

Well for obvious reason it got full rework and some skills changed and some removed and some skills added so i don't really have the time to add it here and to be honest even in the patch notes nothing is said and no skills changes added on the patch notes at all.
So if you wanna know what is going on you better play FM

[Gekaikotan]

Greetings @Green Storm

 

I would like to add a feedback on force master that received a rework and the patch notes not saying anything or even full details about it.

There is a lot of bugs and strange things added to FM that only god knows why.
Let me start with Fire Spec for Force Master

Blazing Beam and Dragonchar Skills you cut down it's damage by half. May I ask why?

Dancing Flame Talent in the 4th row why do i have cast time of 1.5 seconds and why i can't use the skill while moving?

Meteor Shower i can't use it while moving why?

Blazing Beam talent doesn't make sense and it says increase the DOT of inferno by 20% while it doesn't

Great wall talent it says increase blazing wall damage by 50% but it doesn't and it increases the damage of multiple blaze and multiple blaze is not a useful skill anymore

Asteroid is not a PVE skill but it is a PVP skill why it is replaced with fire wall instead of solar flare or vaporization?

Combustion talent doesn't increase the duration of firewall or meteor shower

After Shock talent doesn't increase the damage per ember explosion

Why there is 2 talents for grip?

Phoenix Fire and Afterburner and Blazing Soul talents enhance flame sheath while there is no flame sheath skill

 

Same thing for Ice the talents are bugged it says what it does but what actually happen it doesn't
 

May i ask why we don't buff Force master a little bit because with your update it is so far down and i can't do content with everyone

Like for example buff 3rd specialization , you took the lightening sheath which was a party protection and can only dps ONLY DPS and it's damage is very far to be able to do any content at all
 

The only thing you did which is great is the Z skill bug Ice Spike is fixed

 

For Fire and Ice Spec why i can't have the Knock Down Skill in F instead of Z?
 

if you wanna do 1 thing which is good , Modify and correct the skills and like buff this character in terms of DPS instead of destroying it or making it very over powered compared to other classes

 

And last thing to add make the developer play the game because we are consumers and you are the developer and you can't make you game popular while you are killing it
 

Ask people and take their opinion about what they want and take this as consideration for the next patch and next one and so on and balance the game

[BoxerTurtles]

On 10/16/2022 at 8:22 AM, Shekinah said:

I have no idea about FM, don't play that class.

But on a general note, to basically everyone in this thread, if something is wrong with the class also tell NC why you think what and how it's destroyed. Cause all I see is people crying about how the bad stupid developers destroyed their precious little class. But not how.

I'm not as much of a long-term dedicated FM as some others (I mained Fire FM for 2-3 years until the update) but this update.. feels like a slap in the face to everything I loved and learned about the class. I'm a firm believer in "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" and cannot wrap my head around this change. If we had full, comprehensive update notes, it wouldn't have been as much as a shock (while still jarring). At this time of posting, and being aware that GreenStorm mentioned hoping to be putting the full notes up later this week, the patch notes only say:

 

Quote

Way of the Flame

The Glory, Invincible, and Wildborne Soul Badges now reduce the cooldown of Shock Fire by 10 seconds when using Blazing Wall or Asteroid.

 

Even being a member of some highly informational Discords, I thought to myself "oh, that's it?". And then I logged on, lol.

 

The layout of the skills feels awful, in a word. I'm personally still befuddled at putting the Parry on 2, after YEARS of having 2 as our main dps button - it was very jarring to wrestle with muscle memory. I know Summoners have their counter on 4 - while most classes I have dabbled in will have it on tab or 1. With the FM rework, it forcibly moved Fire Tab (parry) to 2, and permanently put Ice Tab in its place - which shunted our main DPS button to RMB.

 

Now, pressing 2 does open up our KD, Short Fuse, and Divine Veil. But they are not in their.. "proper" positions. For as long as I played FM, Veil was C in Ice stance. Not anymore. It's X, trading places with Short Fuse. Why?

 

I can't speak for all Fire FMs but I really, really don't like this change. Where's our Shadow Grasp aoe/mob pull? Why move abilities in the case of Short Fuse, Divine Veil, Blazing Beam/Dragonchar, and Fire Storm (parry)? How did such a MASSIVE overhaul get dumped on us without any prior warning or context?

 

I don't know how the changes affected Ice, as that's not a spec I have much experience with, but from the perspective of a Fire FM enjoyer this is insanity.

[Zini]

After login on weekend (first time after the new patch) and trying to play (i play only with 1 character, Fire-FM, since year 1) i say NO. Absolutely NO. Even the word "horrible" is too nice for that.

The next joke was the class-change-voucher for 5600 ncoins they offer the same time.
I refuse to pay 70$ to switch for something you destroyed.
And i'm not making a new character either. I have 500+ costumes and other not tradable stuff and want keep them.

 

I see 2 ways to fix it.
- turn it back to the former build
(and make cooldowns shorter + add more or better ways to resist + increase dps)
- give each FM player a class change for free

 

FM must be the lowest of all classes now. Far below the second last spot.

 

Ice-Stance removed.
Shadow Grasp removed.
Useless PVP Grab added.
All buttons and rotation messed up.
Button reaction speed is slower.
Still too long cooldowns and bad resists.
DPS down to a point i've never seen before. FM is a DPS-Class, right?
and much more...

 

Also, i can't change the mouse-keys in the option-menu. Wanted the beam back on the old button. But not working. It's fixed on RMB. And it needs more time to activate.

 

I also hate the 1 sec delay after pressing certain buttons. For whatever reasons other, not used buttons, are linked to this and have the same delay. We had this already before the patch. Intendend or just never fixed?

 

 

On 10/16/2022 at 9:22 AM, Shekinah said:

I have no idea about FM, don't play that class.

But on a general note, to basically everyone in this thread, if something is wrong with the class also tell NC why you think what and how it's destroyed. Cause all I see is people crying about how the bad stupid developers destroyed their precious little class. But not how.

 

Well, some listed those things already. But you forgot 2 things:
- Everything we write here will be ignored like usual. Korea will never read or answer anything here.
- It's not up to the players to write those things down. It's up to ncsoft to tell us what they changed; why they changed it; and why they believe this is the right and better way to play a class.

But i see no comment. They can't explain so they keep quiet. Why was Shadow Grasp removed? Why do we have now a PVP-Grab in a PVE-Mode? And so on. That's not balancing a class, it's killing a class.

 

 

[Shekinah]

3 hours ago, Zini said:

Well, some listed those things already. But you forgot 2 things:

- Everything we write here will be ignored like usual. Korea will never read or answer anything here.
- It's not up to the players to write those things down. It's up to ncsoft to tell us what they changed; why they changed it; and why they believe this is the right and better way to play a class.

But i see no comment. They can't explain so they keep quiet. Why was Shadow Grasp removed? Why do we have now a PVP-Grab in a PVE-Mode? And so on. That's not balancing a class, it's killing a class.

 

 

You realise that your first point is a double-edged sword? If Korea never reads or answers, then why complain in the first place? As you said, they will just ignore it.

It is up on NC to tell us that a class rework is coming, yes. And it's NC's as a whole fault for not giving proper patch notes, since years or so?

 

I have no idea if there are more changes coming for FM in the future. I don't keep track of other classes. But the only chance there is for changes, is if NC notices that players are not happy with the changes. And that's why it is important to write down what the issues are. You did a good job with that.

[Hayunki]

I main as a Fire FM ever since 2016, and I stopped logging into this game ever since the patch.  I will just stop playing this game either they fix the skills, which I highly doubt, or give us a free class change voucher.  In the mean time I'll just go play another game as the third option until the problem gets fixed. 

 

Games like Diablo Immortal offers free class change every 7 days, or you can go head and pay for it.  All the gear will get carry over and I feel like BNS needs to have that option implemented as well.

[BoxerTurtles]

It has been well over a full week since I posted. Patch notes are STILL not updated with the full extent of the Force Master changes; STILL only listing the badge changes. This topic has not been acknowledged by any member of staff that I can see, nor does it seem like we will actually get the full patch notes detailing exactly how many changes they made to a class beloved by many.

 

We want acknowledgement. We want an explanation, if one that doesn't sound like a complete fob-off exists, as to why this class was utterly decimated in the eyes of the playerbase. This change was completely soul crushing to the point where several players I know have class changed their FM or completely shelved it entirely. I shelved mine and I will probably not return to it for the foreseeable future, as I honestly do not see a reversion coming and I have no desire to play a class that I feel was completely torn out from under me.

[Green Storm]

I've now posted the missing Skill change information in the October Patch Notes very late. The workload on the massive release last month prevented us from getting those out earlier. We’re sorry that we could not identify the Force Master rework earlier, so that affected players knew about it in advance. We’ve discussed this topic with the development team, and this is what they shared with us:

• The Force Master class used old skill structures that needed updating. The rework aimed to change the class to reduce the various risks the developers identified and give players more control over how the class plays. Only a small number of players were able to access this class' full potential.
• Some of the issues were stances being switched too often or too fast and item effects that were out of control.
• We understand this is a significant change for people who’ve played Force Master characters a lot over the past few years. We believe the lack of performance was due to the rework, requiring players to find new rotations and adapt to the class changes.
• After the changes were implemented in Korea, the developer noticed that Force Master characters were more powerful, particularly for the Way of the Flame spec.

[Gekaikotan]

4 hours ago, Green Storm said:

I've now posted the missing Skill change information in the October Patch Notes very late. The workload on the massive release last month prevented us from getting those out earlier. We’re sorry that we could not identify the Force Master rework earlier, so that affected players knew about it in advance. We’ve discussed this topic with the development team, and this is what they shared with us:

• The Force Master class used old skill structures that needed updating. The rework aimed to change the class to reduce the various risks the developers identified and give players more control over how the class plays. Only a small number of players were able to access this class' full potential.
• Some of the issues were stances being switched too often or too fast and item effects that were out of control.
• We understand this is a significant change for people who’ve played Force Master characters a lot over the past few years. We believe the lack of performance was due to the rework, requiring players to find new rotations and adapt to the class changes.
• After the changes were implemented in Korea, the developer noticed that Force Master characters were more powerful, particularly for the Way of the Flame spec.

Then why in Korea nobody plays FM? and why most FMs switched to Musician?

Obviously because this character's new rework was completely out of control as well as you need to use a skill to activate another one which is so important for the rotation but it is not added to simple mode and on top of that it is not helping at all.

 

And on top of that FM is not powerful as they assume and if it was powerful why everyone ran away from this character and chose something else?

Now FM is hard to play and you have to stand still to do damage or you will lose damage easily and would be useless as you don't provide party protection only on ice and even the grab is so hard to aim at the boss when FM grabs.

Force Master is not strong and if you wanna see that FM is strong compare it to a gunner and you will see huge difference.

 

And how about lightening spec? like you absolutely not doing anything but damage and still your damage is very very low like why do you have to play 3rd spec at all? 

 

And to be honest why you make rework for 2 specs and ignore 3rd spec?.

 

There is so much more you can add as you are making a rework and to be honest this rework is not even completed as the skills are everywhere and even the tooltips is not correct at all.
 

[BoxerTurtles]

"Full Potential."  You get out what you put into a class - if you put 40% in, you get 40% out. I've seen this over several MMOs (most commonly with healers, which B&S doesn't really have)  and never have I seen such radical changes just because people are physically incapable of playing a class to its fullest potential, for whatever reason. Hand diff, skill gap, brain gap. Very rarely is the problem actually caused by the existence of the class itself.

 

Fast stance swapping. Hand diff. I did it more regularly than I want to admit and at no point did I feel that it was detrimental to playing the class, I just had to be less trigger-happy with LMB/RMB and pay attention to what I was doing. Sometimes I looked goofy for using Divine Veil instead of Blazing Wall. It was whatever lol. It was not a fault of the class, it was the fault of the pilot - me.

 

I have less than zero proficiency in Korean but I somehow find it hard to accept that particularly Fire FMs are more powerful without any kind of data. How is this supposed to be stronger? In what environments? Under what conditions? With what gear?

 

And this still does not address the fact that the changes were dropped on us like a seagull turd. It came from a great height and it came out of freaking nowhere. People don't like being crapped on by seagulls, they also don't like having everything they know completely turned on its head and then some without any warning. I'm talking a simple "Hi folks! In the Symphony of Destruction update, the Force Master specialisations - Way of the Flame, Way of the Frost - will receive an overhaul. Here is what you can expect." or whatever saturated fluff takes fancy of whoever writes the patch notes/news posts.

 

It should be unacceptable that such heavy hammered changes came through and nobody noticed or was notified in advance. It's not a minor change like "Blazing Palm does 10 more damage than before" that goes undocumented, this was an entire overhaul for what was one of the most popular classes in the game. If this ever happens again to another class, I hope that they receive ample warning of what is to come.