A Few Questions

[Roxxout]

1. The DPS on frost fury ... Which of the three tiers are the greatest?
2. Also for frost build... What's the recommended rotation?   ( I know fire is better... But frost is my play style)
3. Can someone give me the link to a PVE frost build?
4. Which tier of frost palm is the best?
5. What is the most important hongmoon skill to unlock?
Thanx in advance for any help....

[Zedonia]

1. Left side. But I recommend using the right side because of the healing. Frost Fury is nothing you wanna spam. It's always a dps loss so take the right side.

 

2. Depends on your available HM skills and gear but you can do this in general: use inferno, meteor, cold snap, ice rain spam, with cold snap on cd use LB/RM/1 until it's ready again. You can also use snowball in between.

 

3. https://bnstree.com/tree/FM?b=B14ZopF3l That's without any HM skills. You need Lv. 50 Hm 4 to have enough points for what I used so no problem using it.

 

4. For frost build left side because you have to freeze the enemy. Otherwise right side because it's faster.

 

5. For frost build, 2 is the best because ice rain gives you focus back so you won't have any focus issues. For fire build 2 is not very important. 4 is also good because Multiple Blaze is a good filler when cold snap is on cooldown. That counts for both builds, at least for now. The rest is not important for ice build. For fire 1 is also important because it's a big dps buff for that skill.

[sephy Kun]

All the future items will favor burn build over frost build by a big margin. What's the fun in playing an underpowered build Dx?

[Mirryn]

Seems to me that Frost build might actually be relatively viable after April 12th?

 

It's in a pretty bad state right now though.

[sephy Kun]

27 minutes ago, Mirryn said:

Seems to me that Frost build might actually be relatively viable after April 12th?

 

It's in a pretty bad state right now though.

The build will get stronger yea and without any items it's as strong as burn build if not stronger

But frost build need to use fire skills like meteor shower and inferno. And since they are fire skills they won't be boosted with the frost elemental items, so that's a dps loss compared to burn build which apart from frost palm uses only fire skills

It also benefits from tiger bracelet more since blazing beam reduces the CD of Dual dragons so you'll have the buff 100% of the time instead of 50% of the time compared to frost build

The badges on fire build are also better specially with raven weapon

 

Not to mention the nature of the build itself. If you get the  badges you'll probably be able to spam 2 and cold snap the entire fight. But if you use it at the wrong time and the boss moves you'll have to wait the entire duration or hope for a skill reset to do any damage 

[Mirryn]

Once merged badges are a thing Frost will be able to be very competitive imo:

 

The moving boss issue isn't really that different for either build - Fire missing Meteor ticks has always been a pretty big damage loss.

It should be more reset friendly due to the nature of its burst combo.

Inferno and Meteor aren't particularly worth casting once you've got the 20 second rotation from merged Cold Snap + Snowball + MSP amulet.

 

And badges for fire build besides the Meteor badge are actually pretty weak:

Merging the Dual Dragons badge into the Meteor badge is worth roughly 5.7 AP  every 15 seconds, or about 0.38 AP/sec.

comparatively Meteor badge is ~1 (~3 with a 15s reset period, more with BT amulet)

and Cold Snap badge merge is 5-6 AP/sec over Snowball badge alone (which I haven't bothered to calculate the value of yet)

 

Also even though Fire can keep Tiger buff up 100% of the time, Frost should be able to get considerably more damage from Tiger due to being able to sync it with Cold Snap every time and getting the full use out of it after every reset.

[sephy Kun]

The difference is a few meteor shower ticks isn't as vital to the build as cold snap

 

And maybe you're right about the damage, idk, because i haven't seen it on someone with max gear. But i would imagine that it's damage on a non-moving target and non-mechanics based fight it would be equal to burn build. But in every other case burn build will be alot better. For example imagine using cold snap just before you have to stop dps and focus on mechanics...well now you're stuck with the lowest damage in game until cold snap is back

Or a moving target like zakhan where you will never be able to keep cold snap 100% of the time

I'm just saying, even if in theory they might be equal in damage, burn build is still a lot more practical. specially for the upcoming dungeons which will require more and more mechanics. And according to jaesung every FM in KR is using burn build now, so it certainly lost the competition there. 

[Zedonia]

12 hours ago, Mirryn said:

Merging the Dual Dragons badge into the Meteor badge

What exactly is the buff dual dragon gives? I can't find it anywhere. Is it a different buff than dragonblaze gives?

[Mirryn]

The buff Dual Dragons badge gives is exactly the same as the Dragonblaze buff - you just don't have to cast Dragonblaze anymore, which is otherwise a 3 (+2.7 for Tiger) AP/cast loss vs using a Blazing Beam.

 

 

Also KR has different gear than us, and they've been committed to Fire for a very long time - and gear past Julia raid plays nicer with Fire for them.

 

For us, Frost should theoretically do competitive damage with Fire build both in burn phases and outside of burn phases, and the losses are similar on moving bosses.

 

With Merged badges, Frost should actually pull way ahead of fire - a whopping 20% more damage or so than Fire builds.

 

Julia raid gear will even this back out and probably give a slight edge to Fire however, since Frost loses its MSP gear based 20 second rotation and playing it becomes much less smooth when that happens.

 

 

PS: This only applies at fairly low ping - Frost will remain fairly ping dependent while Fire will only see big gains from low ping during Soulburn.

[Zedonia]

14 hours ago, Mirryn said:

The buff Dual Dragons badge gives is exactly the same as the Dragonblaze buff - you just don't have to cast Dragonblaze anymore, which is otherwise a 3 (+2.7 for Tiger) AP/cast loss vs using a Blazing Beam.

That's what I thought. So the badge is useless as I thought. I have no idea why people think this and green badge will be fused. The blue badge is so much better.

[Mirryn]

Thing is, blue badge is only 0.75 AP/sec but any Legendary reset reduces that to 0.

(1.28 with BT amulet)

 

So the Dual Dragons badge is better than the blue badge as long as you get at least one reset every 45 seconds or so? something like that.

[sephy Kun]

22 hours ago, Mirryn said:

and the losses are similar on moving bosses.

not even close. frost build relies heavily on cold snap. it is the core skill of the build. and you need the target to stay in it so you can reduce it's cool down with ice rain with the badge, otherwise you'll have to wait for the full cool down duration of the skill (minus the CD reduction from snow ball) or be lucky enough to get a cd reset from the weapon. without it your damage is worse than even a current destroyer

all you're losing from meteor shower is a few ticks that won't be too harmful to the overall DPS. with future items the first hit is the most important one (because of 3000x ap damage increase), and that can never be missed.

[sephy Kun]

how exactly is it 25 ap/s without cold snap? lol

[Mirryn]

If you haven't done the math or studied the build, you should just stop talking.

 

The losses are even across builds if you're playing them right.

 

 

You don't wait for Cold Snap cooldown when something moves out of Cold Snap - you immediately begin reducing Cold Snap cooldown instead of spamming 2, using skills that otherwise would go unused since you can get enough CD reduction without them.

 

And without Cold Snap, Frost damage is still pulling 25+ AP/sec which is still more DPS than Blazing Beam currently does kappa

 

 

Also there is no such Ice Rain badge that alters the cooldown of Cold Snap... not sure WTF you're on about there.

(because I'm talking about AFTER the skill patch...)

Magnum badge is:

On Cold Snap hit, increase ice damage for 15 seconds
On Cold Snap hit, enable Magnum Effect for 6 seconds
During Magnum Effect, Glacial Beam (new ice rain) does 300% additional AP damage

[sephy Kun]

8 minutes ago, Mirryn said:

Also there is no such Ice Rain badge that alters the cooldown of Cold Snap... not sure WTF you're on about there.

Magnum badge is:

On Cold Snap hit, increase ice damage for 15 seconds
On Cold Snap hit, enable Magnum Effect for 6 seconds
During Magnum Effect, Glacial Beam (new ice rain) does 300% additional AP damage

i'm talking about the blue badge

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JOQK34BUTR_55XwnbJOk388gjokrtLZFdhi3vIwXjZc/edit#gid=1585737947
 

and this is the first time i hear about magnum badge O.o

[Mirryn]

Magnum is the Blue badge kappa

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tpgl2YdB6cNjsb2CTrIRqesa1wVs4x0fHfAnzLtgisw/edit#gid=0

 

 

Why are you linking level 50 badge documents when we're talking about 55 skill patch builds? ...

[sephy Kun]

huh i didn't realize they changed it lmao

that's pretty interesting 

[Zedonia]

9 hours ago, Mirryn said:

Thing is, blue badge is only 0.75 AP/sec but any Legendary reset reduces that to 0.

(1.28 with BT amulet)

Nope, just nope. Blue badge resets inferno after ~ 25s. That means you will get an additional 100x ap (with BT ss) every ~ 25s. That's 4 ap/s if you want it this way. Plus it reduces cd of meteor what means even more damage especially with BT mystic badge. The only thing you get from F20 badge is that you safe some tiny damage because you dont have to press F once for dragonblaze. What is if you have bad crit luck and your focus runs out? Then you decide "I use the free dragonblaze instead of Beam now to recover focus." It would make your badge useless aswell. Yes, weapon resets means blue badge is useless but after testing that, it doesn't happen too often (means not before 25s passed).

 

Blue badge is better but everyone who wanna waste dps can go with the F20 badge, of course.

[Mirryn]

Legendary reset will still reduce it to 0.

 

And you can't run out of focus with BT gear.

 

But yes, you're right, my math was underestimating the blue badge - Raven still will tend to nullify its effect fairly frequently though

[Zedonia]

3 hours ago, Mirryn said:

Raven still will tend to nullify its effect fairly frequently though

It will, definitely. But for at least 50% of the time it won't and that is much better than saving one dragonblaze here and there. Trust me, you won't even notice the dps difference with and without dragonblaze but double inferno or not is a huge difference especially together with soul proc.