What needs to happen to make Des playable

[Duriensbane]

A simple list of things that i have though would make Des playable and no some super pvp machine. All these are looks into increasing our pve damage. This is a wishlist and not a i demand this asap. I know none of this will happen but instead of complaining over and over, i figure id put my thoughts down.

 

Long Division useable while wedge is not during grabs. To up our pve damage, and allow us to do damage for the 6 seconds we are grabbing.

Fury duration increased to 8 seconds.

Mighy Cleave and Gale force moved to RMB instead of leaving it bound to F

Mighy Cleave proc CD reduced to 12 seconds.

Max Boost added to Eradicate Tier 3 stage 4

Stage 1 and stage 3 Emberstomp combined (listed in KR test server notes)

Stage 2 Emberstomp gives party wide crit damage buff (numbers not sure of but to make it useful)

Stage 4 Emberstomp gives party wide iframe similar to hm block but different CD so they do not overlap

 

As well as small movements in numbers on our primary damage abilities. During the 6 seconds of fury we can hang with just about any class, but as soon as its over our dps goes bottom side up. Ani cancel is a clunky mech to balance a class around and shouldnt be used. Players should be rewarded for doing something the class is ment to do, but not be required to do it. The only abilities we have that hit nearly as hard as most other classes are Gale Force proc and Smash on a stunned target. I do know a few are running shadow spec and i respect that but honestly its not the ideal spec to run for single target. And smash is on a 45sec CD and how often do we, during a fight, get a chance to hit a CC'd target with smash? So overall we need a complete power adjust and give our primary abilities a move in the positive direction. Namely Cleave and Judgement. How that would work w/o making us super OP in 1v1 im not to sure. But it really would help us in the long run and not having to wait out for gear.

 

 

[DevilTDriver]

ATM, I'm hearing that top destroyers are getting 20-22k sustained dps. Those changes you suggested might bring the dps up to 25k,

Now in comparison TOP BMs, FMs, WL, and Summoners can do 35k-40k dps. That's turns out to be 50% more power on top of great utility.

BM = Tank + HM block and excellent dps with a rmb multiplier doubling cleave while being mobile and further enhanced with phoenix wing to be an aoe + extra damage.

FM = Ranged dps with next to no downside (If anything cheeses through mechs like knockbacks) and frost sheathe. SB skill better than destro SB skill. (100k burst vs 50k burst)

Sum = Same as above, but with healing support, dandelion, and cat taunt.

WL = SB does more of a dps buff than restraint skill while not having to sacrifice the users dps. Also has the benefits of being ranged.

All of the above classes are frequently and specifically asked for in f8 recruit.

 

I think the Black tower shield and other legendaries need to be buffed up further. 30% on rmb on Cleave is not enough, it should be 50%. 50% CD reduction on Fury and Emberstomp needs to be tacked on as well. I'd also say smash CD needs to drop to 12s too with bonus damage not based on stunned target, but something like 5 stacks of bleed or within emberstomp.

 

I'm noticing a big double standard in the way destro skills are designed vs other classes. They hamstringed them hard. I'll give you an example.

 

If destros were treated like a summoner this is how the skill layout would look like.

Super sunflower = Super cleave (A cleave with 50% more dps and procs under the condition on hit with cleave)

Briar patch 18s CD = emberstomp 18s CD. Super Cleave would proc consecutively. On top of that the dps won't require a Grabbed/KDed target to get access to bonus damage, but a flat 15 multiplier.

Poison ivy bonus damage uptime constant. = Emberstomp 20% bonus damage all the time, not just once every 45s.

Increased attack speed in lmb = no such increased attack speed in judgement. However with rose thorn I seen videos where it's shooting out simultaneously with sunflower. A destroyer like this would have a tomahawk on his left hand doing judgement while cleaving with his axe on his right, doing great speedy damage with focus recovery.

 

This amounts to 50% more dps because you chose the right class. a 600 AP summoner is a 900 AP destro. Recklessness like this makes me not trust a developer anymore and I'll gladly look elsewhere and refresh myself with one who is conscious on what's going on in the game. Players are not stupid.

 

 

 

 

 

[TJXX]

Your numbers are pretty far off there, go to youtube, look up Arashel OuO, tungmath, or mada.  All 3 have Shattered masts solos and other videos and similar gear.  In a solo setting the dps isn't much different.  

[vOrpheus]

1 hour ago, TJXX said:

Your numbers are pretty far off there, go to youtube, look up Arashel OuO, tungmath, or mada.  All 3 have Shattered masts solos and other videos and similar gear.  In a solo setting the dps isn't much different.  

U realize Arashel is a Blue Whale right? A bm with that lvl of gear wud hav done over 100k to the twins and they recorded that Taikhain solo with the new p2w soul. Try comparing Arashel to HeHe in dmg there will b night and day difference. Destroyer is just a weak piece of garbage in pve and everyone knows it. I'm sick of these threads. Just wait till tower(If u hav the patience for that) or reroll and it's not JUST bm. Arashel has almost 900 AP.

[Duriensbane]

On 12/7/2016 at 6:37 PM, Duriensbane said:

This is a wishlist and not a i demand this asap. I know none of this will happen but instead of complaining over and over, i figure id put my thoughts down.

 

 

pretty sure you missed the point of the post....this is a WISHLIST. So plz keep it in the idea of what we would wish for instead of compairing apples or oranges. Also not everyone can bank out 900ap, they are outliners...you shouldnt add them into a comparison...that would be like compairing an olympic wrestler to a kid in the peewee league. This is more of a bounce ideas of what we NEED to be playable and inline with other classes. So ideas are welcome but plz keep the rest out.

[vOrpheus]

Sad fact is Duriensbane we aren't going to change cuz KR doesn't care about our balance they care about wut's balanced in their region. We"re gonna keep getting the same skill updates a month after KR even tho we're like 2 yrs behind and it's gonna further bastardize the NA balance. Fun fact: BM's r getting buffed even more in KR. U think if they cared a mod wud hav said something by this point after like 7 threads of this shit. Ik Jon said some stuff, but that's about it. It's too much work for them to class balance based on region it's already a nightmare to do it as it is. Ppl aren't annoyed des is weak. We all knew this pretty much since launch. Wut irritates me for example is linear progression is the only way des "catches up". We get fancy new badges and soul shields, but guess wut u still hav to play and gear and deal with that shit for months cuz u can't leave and come bac that's not how this game works. I hav 8 billion gold on Vindictus i can come bac wenever i want. Having 50k gold on BnS isn't gonna catch u up cuz u hav to actually play the game to get stuff like untradeable weapons and the soul shields etc, which is gud and bad. It is wut it is

[TJXX]

All 3 solos are from last patch.  They all have/had the same gear.

[vOrpheus]

23 minutes ago, TJXX said:

All 3 solos are from last patch.  They all have/had the same gear.

Oh, my mistake. I've never seen those procs they were getting. Just assumed the 1m one was the soul. i didnt look at the date. Still 26k sustain during the first 30% wen Tai barely even moves is laughable. a kfm running solo boo buff can get more than that with scorpio with 700 AP. In any case my point still stands that Arashel has gear that welp pretty much no one else has being on top of bnscoffee and all. Ik i always sound so bitter, but it's just cuz i love destroyer. Maybe i just picked the wrong class since i only pve, but the last couple months hav been very frustrating. Kicked constantly from pugs just cuz of my class and ik PLAY with friends/clan etc so u don't hav to deal with the cancer in f8, but sadly i play 12 hours a day wen i can so not even my clan or friends can b with me that whole time. It just wears on u. I even asked for a gear transfer once. Luckily they said no

[Stensatsu]

DevilT, some of that shit would be insane lol. Especially 12sec smash in pvp. And BT hardly needs to be buffed when it is the gear that makes us on par with other classes.

 

As far as OP, we are getting mighty cleave cdr baked into wrath so that will be similar to a reduced cd. I agree about moving it to rmb since you pretty much always want to use it asap, especially once we have the cdr amulet. Probably don't need a dmg buff for s4 stomp since we have restraint as our offensive boost. It would be cool to have it give an iframe shield similar to BD, though it'd likely have to share the same cd as hm blocks. Would be cool to be able to do damage to grabs, though later our damage seems balanced around not being able to do anything during grab and getting the 3sec of wrath after. They are basically buffing us in the best ways to avoid messing with arena pvp. Stuff like gear/pve stomp/mighty cleave/shadow spec. We'll have to see how it all shakes out after 12/14 patch, but at least we are going to get BT way sooner than many probably expected thanks to getting foundry so far so we will be on par in a few months.

[Duriensbane]

13 hours ago, Stensatsu said:

Probably don't need a dmg buff for s4 stomp since we have restraint as our offensive boost. It would be cool to have it give an iframe shield similar to BD, though it'd likely have to share the same cd as hm blocks. Would be cool to be able to do damage to grabs, though later our damage seems balanced around not being able to do anything during grab and getting the 3sec of wrath after.

WL/Sin/KFM all buff, all get that damage as well. Wrath is a little better then cleave, but no 20k a hit worth. And honestly most WL screw us over by using SB during grab. Since they like to see crits but forget that we give them crit. 

 

and if 3sec of wrath can level out 6sec of restraint then people are screwed in pvp since you can pretty much melt someone already in 6 sec, id hate to hear people say we can do it in 2.

 

That is why i suggested allowing us to actually do support like things. Buffing/Shielding party, since ive been in plenty of groups where all we had were like 2-3 BM's a WL, myself and some other class like KFM or something. HM block can only be used once, but thats it.

Now if were given the ability to buff the party like a WL and have an ability like SB then i could see us as being quite popular. As WL is not a high pop class and SB is so good.

[DevilTDriver]

23 hours ago, Stensatsu said:

DevilT, some of that shit would be insane lol. Especially 12sec smash in pvp. And BT hardly needs to be buffed when it is the gear that makes us on par with other classes.

 

As far as OP, we are getting mighty cleave cdr baked into wrath so that will be similar to a reduced cd. I agree about moving it to rmb since you pretty much always want to use it asap, especially once we have the cdr amulet. Probably don't need a dmg buff for s4 stomp since we have restraint as our offensive boost. It would be cool to have it give an iframe shield similar to BD, though it'd likely have to share the same cd as hm blocks. Would be cool to be able to do damage to grabs, though later our damage seems balanced around not being able to do anything during grab and getting the 3sec of wrath after. They are basically buffing us in the best ways to avoid messing with arena pvp. Stuff like gear/pve stomp/mighty cleave/shadow spec. We'll have to see how it all shakes out after 12/14 patch, but at least we are going to get BT way sooner than many probably expected thanks to getting foundry so far so we will be on par in a few months.

KFMs can do 10 consecutive comet punches and that can do 50k each time. A WL can drop speeding dragon calls in PVP and no one bats an eye. Destroyer's whose gimmick is supposed to be bursting is already outclassed.

 

The only reason smash seems OP is because it's calibrated specifically for pvp. Anytime you stun someone you follow it up with a smash, doing good damage. Yet in PvE namely bosses where it counts, that bonus damage almost never applies cause you got to grab a boss when it's stunned and if you are hitting a grabbed boss, smash is overridden with long division.

 

Making it under a condition like 5 stacks of bleed makes it less OP cause how many times can you maintain 5 stacks of bleed in pvp? Mobs however with take in the full punishment. This justifies the lower CD. If people are still paranoid about destroyer "insane burst" we an adjust the smash multiplier where it's a mere 5 multiplier outside of the bonus but a 20 multiplier within the bonus.

 

This is a big deal because I examined the breakdowns of other classes and they got good secondary skills as well as a primary skill. KFM's got their tiger strikes and like 6 to 7 other skills doing good damage. FM's likewise with Blaze beam, blaze palm, inferno, and meteor shower. Dual dragons an 18 multiplier skill gets a CD reduction with blaze beam which is a 10 multiplier.

 

Destroyer's is like 60% cleave, 20% wrath, 15% mighty cleave and everything else fizzles out.

FM's got DPS shitting out everywhere with their skills, enabling 800 AP FMs to do 50k sustained damage. Their breakdown looks like

15% Blaze palm, 15% Blaze beam, 12% meteor shower, 12% inferno, 10% multiple blaze, 10% dragonblaze, 10% dual dragons, 8% force blast etc.

 

A similarly designed destroyer would have Emberstomp and Smash CD lowered significantly. Higher wrath uptime, at least 80% of the time. Mighty cleave would have a way to naturally reduce CD along with galeforce. Hell why not doing something about stage 3 ram and triple the multiplier. It's a 2.5 atm, rendering it worthless. 7.5 bare minimum. perhaps make it a 10 multiplier upon 5 stacks of bleed. That would make it on par with KFM multipliers.

Up the stage 3 blitz from a 1.5 to a 15 multiplier. Scorching strike needs to be not a 9, but a 18 multiplier and needs to have 0 cd because of how harsh the conditions are to pull it off already. I'd make it more universal but having it proc on any iframe.  This would really solve the lack of secondary skill issues.

 

No it would not be broken in PvP because people will spec into CC spec for Arena. Changes like this is just like giving us PvE 5-point strike vs PvP 5-point strike. Bottomline I want destroyer's have to OPTIONAL CC specs like OTHER CLASSES!