PatchKid

Why is Damage the only measurement to victory?

Recommended Posts

Pikia   
On 2/12/2016 at 4:38 PM, Seyd said:

 Apparently the devs never played a proper fighting game to learn from. Victory always went to the person with the highest health. 

 

Since you decided to use fighting games as an example, there is a reason Elena is currently considered in a tier of her own above everyone else in Ultra Street Fighter 4, one of the reasons is because she has an ultra that heals her for like 30% HP, and if you're good at using your Focus attack to absorb damage for free ultras you can spam heal all match and time out the opponent for an easy win. It's not fun to play against, and its not that hard to pull off.

Giving the round to the player with the most HP in fighting games works because in most cases characters can't heal, so the person with higher health generally outplayed the person with lower health. In Elena's case she has a heal, this tips that system over and most people don't seem to enjoy fighting her.

 

Similar situations happen in this game all the time, if it went by remaining health rather than damage dealt summoners or other classes with superior healing could just do heal builds and never lose. I've had games against summoners and destroyers where I've done 30-40k more damage than them at a time out, should I lose because they can heal way more than my class can? No. People shouldn't be rewarded for doing nothing but blocking, running away, and healing the whole match. Never.

Screenshot_160208_000_zpstps1fdac.jpg~or

 

In no cases should I ever lose with that score.

Edited by Pikia

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's to prevent out-healing your opponent to win by timer. Healing is just to help you stay in the fight to make that turn around, not to help you turtle your way to a win.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/12/2016 at 4:38 PM, Seyd said:

PvP is a disappointment on this game. I expected better but right now it's pretty much classes exploiting the *cricket* out of their advantages. Same goes for this dps meter. Apparently the devs never played a proper fighting game to learn from. Victory always went to the person with the highest health. However, I can also sort of understand why they'd do this since there are classes which can heal through attacking, which would potentially skew the victory in favor of them.

 

That's every game... not just this one, COD always has a best gun... Wow always has a top comp, Hearthstone has it's best card set, League has its top champions... etc etc.

 

Get over it, either exploit them as well or for lack of a better term... "git gud"

Edited by Subpargamer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gamemako   

 

On 2/13/2016 at 5:18 AM, Deuljwi said:

Because scummoners, on top of making the fight 2v1, get a heal to full every *cricket*ing 2 seconds.

 

Even if someone did survive the whole round, damage to the cat doesn't count, so the summoner always wins anyway. If you counted damage to the cat, the summoner would always lose. It's a problem really only solved by changing how decisions are made.

 

12 hours ago, Nyssa said:

Think of it as a boxing match i guess, who do you think will win?

The one getting in the punches and scoring points or the one defending all the time and so now and then getting a hit in?

 

Landing a good hook and then running away for 8 more rounds doesn't win you any decisions.

 

4 hours ago, Ricecrakka said:

It's to prevent out-healing your opponent to win by timer. Healing is just to help you stay in the fight to make that turn around, not to help you turtle your way to a win.

 

That is not a viable strategy for higher-tier players. Offense-heavy builds absolutely wallop defensive ones, and you won't outheal 3/4 of your health being stripped in one combo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Ricecrakka said:

It's to prevent out-healing your opponent to win by timer. Healing is just to help you stay in the fight to make that turn around, not to help you turtle your way to a win.

+1

To all of you that think your remaining HP should decide the match: If you're letting someone beat on you so much to the point they're out-damaging you enough to win, do you really think there's something wrong with the system? Or is it really just something wrong with what you're doing? Stop overthinking pvp. "Sometimes the best defense is a good offense." Stop focusing on defense/survival. You need a good offense and clearly, those of you that are arguing HP should decide the match are completely lacking in a good offense. If you weren't, your opponent would be dead and you wouldn't be faced with turtle matches.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PatchKid   
29 minutes ago, Roxefeller said:

+1

To all of you that think your remaining HP should decide the match: If you're letting someone beat on you so much to the point they're out-damaging you enough to win, do you really think there's something wrong with the system? Or is it really just something wrong with what you're doing? Stop overthinking pvp. "Sometimes the best defense is a good offense." Stop focusing on defense/survival. You need a good offense and clearly, those of you that are arguing HP should decide the match are completely lacking in a good offense. If you weren't, your opponent would be dead and you wouldn't be faced with turtle matches.

 

My original thought was that damage shouldn't be the only deciding factor to a timer victory.  No single component should be the final determining factor as to who did a better job.  Damage dealt should absolutely be part of the equation, but so should remaining health and combos.

 

I fought an LBD this weekend that just spun and played 100% defensively the entire match.  3 minute timer each time and they won due to damage done.  In each case I had more HP because I was able to stop their spinning with a knock-down and a grapple.  Nothing I trained would have changed the outcome.  That tactic is extremely valid when damage is the only value that determines victory.

 

Same situation happened with an assassin.  They were getting into trouble because I kept interrupting their stun-lock with a sweep, grapple, and some healing.  Switched back to stun and hide gameplay and let the timer run out.  Nothing I can do, but my HP was 75% and theirs was more like 20%.  Clearly I had the advantage, and if the timer wasn't there I would have worn them down.  Very frustrating to lose when you're obviously going to win...

 

Has anyone here ever gone to the timer with a summoner?  I rarely make it out of the 1st minute against them.  Either they have destroyed me by spamming multiple immunities and CCing me when I get my CC's on them, or they get blown up before the 1st minute.  Not sure if that is a viable counter class to consider.

 

The only class I have seen that has never done much self-healing during 1v1 is Assassin.  Everyone else seems to have some kind of healing.  BM heals very well.  KFM heals if they spec grapple (which means they lose some strong skills).  Dest heals with their shield out.  Summ obviously has powerful heals.  FM can heal pretty well (especially if you're stupid enough to hit them when they ice block).  LBD might be able to heal, but mostly they just have a ton of iframes and immunities to lots of CC. 

 

I don't think the amount healed is important, but if you design a build that counters super aggressive builds, then that strategy should be just as capable of winning if the numbers show they have the advantage.  It's really stupid to think that someone with 10% HP is going to beat someone sitting at 50%+ HP just because they did 20% more damage, but had zero defensive skills.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TBH. If they could, they would have removed ALL healing from arena. That's why the prevent potion use in arena. The skills that heal you are most likely meant for PVE content. So in order to remedy the fact that they can't BAN skills outright from arena, they make it so that healing doesn't count towards your score. However, you can still use healing to your advantage by keeping yourself in the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Apolenge   

Had an issue with an assassin for the first time where they stealthed / ran and only came in for small combos. Kinda feel like a cheesey way to play. Most of my matches are usually really good against them and maybe I'm just not used to that "tactic" yet. But it still felt very cheesy and would def like more than just damage being part of the win factor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Archess   
On 12-2-2016 at 10:32 PM, PatchKid said:

Does it bother anyone else that the only measurement to victory in a 1v1 (or even 3v3) duel the person who did the most damage?

 

If the timer runs out, it does one thing.  Counts total damage dealt and awards the player with the most damage the victory.  That seems absolutely stupid.  In every other game with dueling involved, characters sacrificed damage or utility for some variety of healing, and that was their edge.

 

I prefer playing classes that are "out-lasting" types.  I loved Paladins, Priests, Crusaders and various other durable/defensive classes.  I picked KFM because it was very interesting and had some similar options with healing, but I feel penalized playing "smart" in the arena because if I can't finish my opponent off before the timer runs out - even if my HP is 100% and theirs is at less than 10% (happened to me probably a dozen times now), they get the victory.

 

Doesn't it say something to a person's lack of skill to defend against healing mechanics?  Especially since the KFM heals through grapple (mostly), and if you time your ground counters properly you can easily defend against - why is that player then punished because they "out-played" their opponent?

 

 Just saying, but in a real boxing match the boxer that keeps his defense up and acts as a punching bag to the other more active boxer trying to knock the other guy out, at the end of the match even when the defensive boxer is still standing, the offensive guy will win by points.

 

The only way the defensive boxer can turn this point diffrence around is by KO'ing his opponent.

 

Just staying alive in the ring doesn't get you points.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So you would rather see people avoiding fights, only coming in when its advantageous and specing into cc or full heal? Its already cancerous and we only have 3minutes pair round. This game rewards PLAYING not avoiding interractions. Every classes has good damage. Some classes struggle against some and they do use different builds to last the game timer and avoid all unwanted interaction so they don't die before that. That playstyle is very negative and antiplay which is why this game don't reward you for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Treach   

The system is fine the way it is. If you want to win learn to do damage not pull the same air grapple combo over and over. BTW good kfms do not even use grapple.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is action rpg. In action rpg you expect for fast paced and active gameplay. If we would start taking healing into score calculation we would promote more passive gameplay which would be total oposite to current fast paced gameplay. Therefore taking healing into score calculation would slow down game a lot and thats not only problem. Like other ppl said - some classes have stronger heals than others. Summoners would beat anyone when it comes to healing. They dont need to swap other skill so it would heal instead of giving some cc or defense - its an always attack type skill which provides dmg and healing. While other classes have to spec their skills for healing in exchange for something

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think damage should be favored when winning a match, but remaining hp should at least be counted with a reduced value.

 

reasoning;

some classes are able to turtle up and spam defensive skills like spin or stealth while landing the occasional 'fluff' hit that wont really affect your hp and is easily healed. By playing defensively and repeating this tactic they can improve damage on the scoreboards while being unable to move your hp bar with no chance of killing you, thus securing a win without playing well even if you land a nice combo on them that leaves them with much lower hp. (*cough* sins) 

 

some other info to consider though;

1, combos shouldnt count at all, because some classes rely more on poking and escaping combos rather than performing them (summoners compared to kfm/destro will almost always lose on amount of combos)

2, classes have different survival skills that directly affect the score, take bd for example, their main defense is spinning which avoids the damage of a lot of skills vs a smn or FM who is naturally squishier, but has the defense of healing that damage back... take them both to the 3 minute mark and the one that avoided the damage will score much better even though they both performed equally and ended with equal hp, this makes the current 3minute score unbalanced towards certain classes.

3, clearly the healing itself shouldnt be counted, as that would skew the score in favor of classes like summoner.

 

 

tldr- should score people on how close they were to victory, not just how much damage they did. 

 

Edited by Cascade88

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AyeAye   
On ‎2‎/‎13‎/‎2016 at 3:29 AM, PatchKid said:

 

Amount healed shouldn't matter.  Total HP at the end of the round should matter.  That's very different.  I can heal myself a bunch of times, but if I can't even make a dent in the target's HP, what's the point?

 

Look at the equation and consider it for balance.  If I am losing to someone when my HP bar is 80%+ and theirs is less than 10% - that's not accurate.  I did 90% of their HP and successfully countered them by restoring my own HP through using tactics and sacrificing other skills to support those tactics.

 

Total Damage Done + HP Remaining + (#of combos completed * 1000). 

 

So, look at say an Assassin that has next to no healing options.  They can sit in stealth, deal out lots of damage, and kick out a bunch of combos.  Lets say they do 95,000 damage, have 10% HP left at the end of the match, and did oh 12 combos.

 

That's 95,000 + 4300 + 12000 = 100500 score

 

Their opponent, let's say it's a KFM because I know what they're capable of at least.  They did 38,700 damage, had 85% of their HP left, and landed say 7 combos.

 

That's 38,700 + 39950 + 7000 = 85650

 

So you see here the Assassin would clearly win the round because they did more than 2x the damage of the KFM.  However, had the KFM managed avoid taking 1/3 as much damage, but still maintained the HP pool by the end while landing a few more combos they could win a technical KO.  That isn't currently possible.  It's just raw damage and nothing else factors into the equation.

 

Very reminiscent of the whole "only kills matter" issue that is still a problem in modern MMO PvP where people give up utility and support to go full blown damage bots because getting kills is all that ever matter. 

 

The timer situation happens only like 10% of the time for my matches, but most of them go to BDs, Dest, and Assassins.  BDs/Dest just spin around and don't even bother to engage a lot of the time after they've done substantial damage.  Assassins get very picky about engaging if they aren't 100% certain they can get back into stealth.  Most of my timer losses are to Assassins.  I actually find BDs and Dests to be my best matchup (as KFM).  Summoners and FMs never go to the timer.  Rarely do they even get to the less than 1 minute mark.  There's no time to be technical against those opponents.  BMs are just very good at dishing out burst damage, and very easy for a KFM to setup for burst damage, so I don't experience this much against those opponents either.  I've gone to timer a bunch of times when it's KFM vs KFM.  We're just dancing around and counter spamming so much time just ends up disappearing.  Always sad when my opponents get a win and I clearly had the advantage if the match had lasted just 30 seconds longer.

 

Well I'm not sure if your new or just bad.

 

But you know how long it would take for a sin to do 95,000 dmg?

 

The reason that healing and total HP is not factored in to the equation has already been answered, BY YOURSELF.

 

1. Not all classes can properly heal.

 

2. ALL CLASSES can properly DPS.

 

Favoring the ones whom can heal is absolutely 1 sided and ignorant.

 

Fun fact, Sins big damage dealers only do 2500 crits at best, and come in 2 second stun intervals.

 

KFM can hit you for 20k in 2 seconds. And also has hella viable healing options.

 

Summoner can hit you for 40k in 2 seconds while disabling your escape.

 

Destoyer can hti for 20k IN A SINGLE ATTACK.

 

The list goes on, Damage reliant classes are already at an extreme disadvantage since they can't heal.

 

Shafting assassins whom can't heal or deal huge burst damage is not going to help the arena.

 

The reason its based on damage done and not hp bar is because not all classes can deal 50k dmg in half a second.

 

You can literally just play defensive, save your tab buff as KFM or whatever. And just do one combo at the end of the match to win.

 

That's retarded when I have precisely used every move I have, but probably only been able to chip away minor dmg because you have a defensive build and Sins don't have and moves that hit for 30k dmg.

Edited by AyeAye

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, AyeAye said:

You can literally just play defensive, save your tab buff as KFM or whatever. And just do one combo at the end of the match to win.

 

Agreed, if remaining hp was the primary score then certain tactics like this would wreck pvp. Thats why in my post I suggest that damage should be the primary score but remaining hp should have at least some impact on it.

 

That way if youve been dominant the whole match and the enemy just landed a lucky combo at the end, you would still win. It prevents classes abusing fully defensive builds that will never kill you but instead slowly rack up points vs the more healing heavy classes, and it rewards skillful play.

 

 

Example;

damage+(hp remaining/2)=

Sin does that ridiculously careful play where he hits once or twice then runs away, gets 50k overall damage but leaves KFM with 30k hp remaining after some heals. KFM lands 2 nice combos during brief period of visibility doing 35k damage and leaving the sin with 5k hp remaining.

Sin gains 52.5k points

KFM  gains 50k points

Sin was dominant for most of the match, so is the victor, but the kfm is close because he got the sin low by timing things correctly. Hell of a lot more balanced than the sin winning with a big lead in damage even though its much much closer to death.

Edited by Cascade88

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PatchKid   
On 2/17/2016 at 6:33 AM, Mariester said:

So you would rather see people avoiding fights, only coming in when its advantageous and specing into cc or full heal? Its already cancerous and we only have 3minutes pair round. This game rewards PLAYING not avoiding interractions. Every classes has good damage. Some classes struggle against some and they do use different builds to last the game timer and avoid all unwanted interaction so they don't die before that. That playstyle is very negative and antiplay which is why this game don't reward you for it.

 

This is exactly what BDs do against me.  They just run away and avoid combat because they unload 20-35% of my HP at the start of the round with a double stun / air combo that can do 15-20% HP (depending on crits).  Then they just spin and run away, use their iframe / invulns and avoid fighting for the next 2.5 minutes.  In the end, the only CC I can use against BDs is knock-downs, and when I knock them down I grapple them so I can restore some of that lost HP they can easily burn off my character in the first 30 seconds of the fight.

 

This is extremely common against mostly BDs, and sometimes Destroyers.  They are the ones playing defensively.  They get in super quick damage, and when they see I can reset the HP meter against them they go on the defense until the timer runs out.  Why?  Because they get to win the match that way.

 

Assassins have employed this tactic non-stop as well.  The difference is that I rarely get an opportunity to grapple Assassins, which is why I don't spec grapple vs. them (ice to bring them out of stealth is much more useful).  However, they play the "I did enough damage to win" game all the time.

 

Again - the people abusing the system are the ones playing defensively.  Get enough damage in to win, and then turtle the rest of the match.  This isn't about playing defensively.  It's about playing strategically.  Any time a match goes to the timer and my HP is significantly higher  than my opponent's HP, and they were at the disadvantage, the round ends and they get the victory is complete bullshit.

 

MMA and even Boxing take more into consideration than just "hits landed".  It's part of the consideration, but this game is not boxing it's MMA by definition (mixed martial arts in a fantasy setting).  These are the considerations used when a decision is made in MMA:

 

1. Effective Striking - game translation, damage done

2. Effective Grappling - game translation, every successful CC landed

3. Control of the Fighting Area - game translation, this to me translates into HP management in this game

4. Effective Aggressiveness and Defense - game translation, landing counters and avoiding attacks (abilities activated by defensive action, counter, block, parry, Q/E SS dodges where the attack is negated)

 

In MMA you get points if you get a take down, and you also get points if you defend against a take down.  The guy who holds the center of the arena and keeps the opponent from taking control of the timing also gets more points.  The person who is able to block and avoid being hit gets points for blocking and avoiding hits.

 

HOWEVER - They also get points for landing hits!

 

I, in no way, believe that damage done is an invalid metric of success in PvP.  It is not the only valid metric for success in PvP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, PatchKid said:

 

This is exactly what BDs do against me.  They just run away and avoid combat because they unload 20-35% of my HP at the start of the round with a double stun / air combo that can do 15-20% HP (depending on crits).  Then they just spin and run away, use their iframe / invulns and avoid fighting for the next 2.5 minutes.  In the end, the only CC I can use against BDs is knock-downs, and when I knock them down I grapple them so I can restore some of that lost HP they can easily burn off my character in the first 30 seconds of the fight.

 

This is extremely common against mostly BDs, and sometimes Destroyers.  They are the ones playing defensively.  They get in super quick damage, and when they see I can reset the HP meter against them they go on the defense until the timer runs out.  Why?  Because they get to win the match that way.

 

Assassins have employed this tactic non-stop as well.  The difference is that I rarely get an opportunity to grapple Assassins, which is why I don't spec grapple vs. them (ice to bring them out of stealth is much more useful).  However, they play the "I did enough damage to win" game all the time.

 

Again - the people abusing the system are the ones playing defensively.  Get enough damage in to win, and then turtle the rest of the match.  This isn't about playing defensively.  It's about playing strategically.  Any time a match goes to the timer and my HP is significantly higher  than my opponent's HP, and they were at the disadvantage, the round ends and they get the victory is complete bullshit.

 

MMA and even Boxing take more into consideration than just "hits landed".  It's part of the consideration, but this game is not boxing it's MMA by definition (mixed martial arts in a fantasy setting).  These are the considerations used when a decision is made in MMA:

 

1. Effective Striking - game translation, damage done

2. Effective Grappling - game translation, every successful CC landed

3. Control of the Fighting Area - game translation, this to me translates into HP management in this game

4. Effective Aggressiveness and Defense - game translation, landing counters and avoiding attacks (abilities activated by defensive action, counter, block, parry, Q/E SS dodges where the attack is negated)

 

In MMA you get points if you get a take down, and you also get points if you defend against a take down.  The guy who holds the center of the arena and keeps the opponent from taking control of the timing also gets more points.  The person who is able to block and avoid being hit gets points for blocking and avoiding hits.

 

HOWEVER - They also get points for landing hits!

 

I, in no way, believe that damage done is an invalid metric of success in PvP.  It is not the only valid metric for success in PvP.

Yah it is pathetic and annoying, it prevents the other one from actually playing but I would rather lose in 3mins to a DMG time out than lose to a 5min time out. Unfortunetly there's nothing that can be done to prevent this sort of build because in the end even if it was a 5min fight, they would still win because resist > you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hazgaz   

Using HP as a source of victory will just create more Attrition Battles.  Long drawn out fights based on HP.  No.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PatchKid   
1 hour ago, Hazgaz said:

Using HP as a source of victory will just create more Attrition Battles.  Long drawn out fights based on HP.  No.  

 

Why does everyone assume that HP would be the only variable?  Do you folks not understand that you can combine more than one variable into an equation?

 

HP remaining, Combos landed, CCs avoided, CCs landed, Hits, Damage done - sooooo many variables could be used to determine victory.  Right now the system uses one variable.  The only variable is damage done.  It should continue to include damage done.  Damage done is super important.  No one should ever argue that damage done shouldn't be part of the equation.


Have I mentioned that DAMAGE DONE IS IMPORTANT enough yet?  Should I bold that damage done needs to be part of the equation so that it is understood that the suggestion is not to eliminate damage from deciding victory?

 

I recommend that if the only "skill" that matters is dealing damage - remove the timer.  Then it becomes gladiator battles, and not a "sport".

Edited by PatchKid

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AyeAye   

It's just pointless man.

 

Look at the average game where it goes to a 'time out'

 

I play Sin, when I "Time out" a Destroyer, Summoner, Or BD, the Score usually goes something like this.

 

69,000 - 43,000 (Sometimes this is considerably less, but I normally ALWAYS get near 60k) Sometimes my enemy barely can hit 30k.

 

IDGAF if you healed for 200,000,000 hp, Not only did I control the fight, I also MANAGED my hp better as a resource instead of mindlessly letting it be taken away.

 

And there was NO strategy or purpose behind turtling and healing, other then not wanting to die, infact, if you didn't have so much healing, you wouldn't have lasted until the time out. (Even though it seems like I'm the one pushing for the time out) I really just CANT KILL YOU because you heal to much.

 

so my counter argument is to remove healing from the Arena PERIOD.

 

Also remove Jumping its to glitchy.

 

Thanks.

 

TLDR: Your wanting to add in a bunch of extra variables that will be harder to track, make things more difficult, and only effect 1% or less of the games that are won by decision in the first place.

 

The dmg (score) is so lopsided on most 'time out games.' you would have to inflate healing to such a strong amount to consider closing that gap to the point healing score would be over powered.

 

Not to mention, it doesn't take skill to heal yourself.

 

It takes skill to land a hit.

 

You don't resist your own heals.

 

Any sense of scoring Healing near the level of dmg, plays in to reducing the skill cap of the game. Which trust me is not a good thing, there are plenty dumbed down enough classes to play now.

 

If you don't make healing worth an unfair amount of points, then its irrelevant to even consider it in the first place.

 

1 dmg would have to be worth 1 point.

 

1 healing would be worth .5 (Probably less to be fair .25, when you factor in difficulty of healing vs damaging.)

 

Now show me a single score sheet this would tip the scale on, its the way it is now to SIMPLIFY things, and ADD skill while REMOVING cheese tactics.

 

No one who deserves to have a chance at wining the fight is going to allow their enemy to stall for 3 minutes. This only works against poor players.

 

Example - A player who you are far better then, but he has a severe advantage that does not leave you wanting to fight.

 

Best example - Destroyers, I can fight this guy for 2 minutes straight without getting hit, combo'ing him down chipping away 30k hp, Just to be hit once for an equal amount.

 

PLUS he is out healing me the entire fight, resising most of my attacks, so on and so fourth.

 

I already had to out play the guy by 500% to get a time out in the first place.

Edited by AyeAye

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PatchKid   
On 2/17/2016 at 10:18 AM, AyeAye said:

 

Well I'm not sure if your new or just bad.

 

 

 

And I'm not sure if you just can't read, or you're just a troll.  Either way, your post is irrelevant and has nothing to do with the conversation.  Thanks for bumping though!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hazgaz   
2 hours ago, PatchKid said:

 

Why does everyone assume that HP would be the only variable?  Do you folks not understand that you can combine more than one variable into an equation?

 

 

It's not the only variable, but it's the variable that causes the most trouble.  Remove all forms of healing from 1v1 and go with boxing rules for voting.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PatchKid   
37 minutes ago, Hazgaz said:

It's not the only variable, but it's the variable that causes the most trouble.  Remove all forms of healing from 1v1 and go with boxing rules for voting.  

I do think that would be a more fair method than the current incarnation.  Especially if they can add in values like countering and dodging skills as part of the score calculation.  The only concern is that it dramatically reduces playstyle options and limits players to basically pure DPS builds when most games with PvP elements support diversity in playstyle.

 

Having some ability to restore HP has been a game changer for me in many situations.  I've recovered from being down to 365 HP in one match, and pounded my way back to 10k HP then stole the victory because my opponent got too confident.  Without the healing mechanics, that kind of comeback opportunity gets eliminated, and it really does become whoever draws the first TAB escape wins the match 90% of the time.

 

After browsing through the skill trees, it's apparent that every class has a means of healing.  Some of them are far more passive, but those classes also tend to be the lower skill curve classes (Dest and Summ mainly).  Everyone else has a method of healing in some way if they chose to train that method, and most of those methods require you to sacrifice something else (DPS or Utility).

 

Just to make sure the point of this thread is 100% clear - I don't think HEALING should have anything to do with score.  The amount healed is irrelevant.  I think your HP PERCENTAGE should matter.  There's a major difference, and that is the problem with all these replies talking about heals.  Very few healing options deal much damage.  Many of them do ZERO damage.  If someone is focusing on healing the entire match, odds our the opponent still has significant HP Percentage by comparison, and did substantially (3-4-5x) more damage.

 

So someone who "turtles" and heals the entire time isn't going to hurt their opponent enough for them to win after the timer. They will still be substantially lower in damage done, and even if their HP% is higher than the opponent, it won't be very much higher to matter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now