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Dam you guys are killing me lol, I still have to finish reading before replying again, it's too much. I did consider people who don't play multiple alts, that was the entire purpose of me saying "Let me correct myself, I'd stay Aransu if you find it easier to get the extra Elysians/Moonstes/Soulstones/Sacreds instead of the extra gold. Since I play multiple alts, I get mats pretty fast" One point I saw mentioned was non-raid not requiring you to raid often, so one of the conveniences of going non-raid path is no longer the case. Thanks to MSP there's an outside source for the Hive Queen Hearts. Off-topic, but this is what really bothered me about the event, it gave an outside source for Grand Celestial Steels, but unlike KR, we could not benefit from it. Anyway, you said Storm Dragon/Aransu 3 are the same, when it comes to requirements to have easier access to higher content, but that's not entirely true. Raven 9 for most classes I believe, outdamages Storm Dragon 3. Some people kick if you're not on the raid path so again, I'd rather get Aransu 3 to get access to more content, then work more on accessories and take my time on the weapon. I'm not prioritizing focusing only on the weapon, never said that, just reaching Stage 3 and working on it over time because at stage 3 they're both still pretty good. As for what I said about spending your Spirit Stones to get hearts, it would limit how many oils you can transmute later and make even more of your excess Moonstones/Elysians go to waste pretty much, but it's not a huge wallet-shattering, Earth-ending deal like some people make it out to be. I see your point Kitsune, but still it's only to get to Aransu 3, not wasting Spirit Stones to go higher than that. It may not be worth it to you, but I found it worth it when Sealed Hive Queen Hearts were 60g+. Oh well, maybe I will regret not being able to make those 3-4 Sacred Oils for a 120g profit a year from now even though it helped me get to where I wanted to enjoy the game more now. Aside from that, I still hold the same opinion as before regarding sticking to the raid path. Going Raven or Aransu 3, I felt less of a need to rush Raven/Aransu 9 because I already get the basic benefits at stage 3. The high AP multipliers on your main skills, the static crit rate/damage rather than chance to proc and the better effect. So you can stay Raven/Aransu 3 for a while and work on accessories, rather than feeling like the weapon is more important to rush and upgrade. Just like I said before, I preferred having the raid path for the immediate dps increase over non-raid, and working on it over time, rather than focusing on a big jump over a longer period of time and probably putting less effort into accessories. I probably should've touched on that sooner. And as for costs, it's not cheap either way, going the non-raid path takes longer to see the big results because you have to reach the end of the path before switching over. For comparison, I'll list the amounts I got for each(only the important things). Like you said, you can get some Legendary Elements from events, but majority you're going to be buying. I'll just take off 30 elements from each side and say those were free from events. Hope you're ok with that. Transformation Stones, I put as 7.2g each since that's roughly the price if you craft them yourself, the rest are just a bit under F5 value since you can usually get them for a bit less in faction chat. Doing 2 amounts, for the gold and sacred/soulstone crystals, for 20g Legendary Elements or 10g elements + 5 Sacred & 10 Soulstone Crystals Raven 9 > Aransu 9 (Raid path) 3780/*4530* gold in Tradeable mats/Legendary Elements/Upgrade Costs 98 Hive Queen Hearts 45 Silver Scales 460 Moonstone Crystals 460 Elysian Crystals 2215 or 1840 Sacred Crystals 2590 or 1840 Soulstone Crystals Raven 9 > Storm Dragon 9 > Aransu 9 (Non-raid path) 4460 or 5610 gold in Tradeable mats/Legendary Elements/Upgrade Costs 38 Hive Queen Hearts 121 Silver Scales 335 Moonstone Crystals 330 Elysian Crystals 1895 or 1320 Sacred Crystals 2490 or 1340 Soulstone Crystals So either spend time farming hearts and mats, which you can get all of them from MSP, or wait to get the extra gold and farm the Silver Scales and you still need a way to get the the 38 hearts. I'd rather just buy 8 hearts, get Aransu 3 and have a much better time doing whatever else. At this point, I wasn't referring to the Rift path. I agree using Rift is cheaper than Raven, but once you get to Storm Dragon it can change for some people depending on how you like to play. And one of the main points I wanted to make is that if you go Raven 3, you don't need to work on your weapon as hard, you can focus on accessories. If you're using Rift 3, at least for me, I'd feel more inclined to get my weapon up over anything else. But again, when I suggest go Raven 3 or Aransu 3 because it has better damage, I don't mean to put off learning your class or not work on your accessories. I'm not trying to make a guide on how to learn your class, that should be given and this wasn't intended to be about upgrade priority. I initially intended to say to all those people who have their alts sitting on Rift 3, or all the newbies sitting on Rift 3 - 9 for a while, to just get Raven 3 if you don't plan to upgrade your weapon further soon. No where did I mean to say focus only on your weapon and to neglect your bracelet, earring, heart, getting the Aransu/Dynasty Badge, and neglect learning how to play your class, and neglect learning boss rotations/mechanics because the weapon is the only thing that matters. Not sure what gave that impression by me saying to just do yourself a favor and get Raven 3 to alts/newbies. And literally stating if you're upgrading beyond that soon, then this isn't for you. You are definitely right about the newbies suffering in dps from now knowing mechs, boss rotations or even their own rotations that comes over time and again, that's fine. I'd help people like that when I come across them, I've said that before. But where is this idea coming from that if you work on getting the starting stage of a raid path weapon that you can't work on anything else? I like the idea of what you guys said, using the raid path to get your weapon quicker, so you can work on accessories, but I just disagree with the big jumps like that. The way I'm looking at it, let's say Non-Raid path is 20% faster, you still need to run the full race before you get anything. But with the Raid path, even though it's slower, you get better damage without having to go to the final stage. So you can run 30% of the way and stop there to do other things. And again, damage isn't everything, but arguing that a newbie won't do much better dps with either weapon isn't a good, you should improve whatever gear you can if it doesn't take much and Always work on improving your playstyle and learning fights.

Hive Queen Hearts are a bit easier to get now. Even if you can't do VT after the nerfs, you can get a nice amount from MSP on the weekends from yellow crystals. Aside from that, if you need to just get Aransu 3 to make finding groups for MSP easier, an easy way is to sacrifice some Lesser Demon Spirit Stones to trade your green crystals for yellow ones in Cold Storage. It'll be so long before I find it worth transmuting oils, I didn't mind giving up some of the spirit stones I had saved, but if it isn't worth it for you then simply don't do it. But honestly, it really isn't that hard to get hearts this way, Storm Dragon is significantly more expensive than just going Aransu and farming some hearts. It's a trade off between mats(raid) or gold(non-raid) and I'd recommend just staying Aransu. If you disagree, can you just tell me how much it costs in Legendary Elements + Tradeable materials to go from Raven 9 to Aransu 9 using Storm Dragon instead of Aransu? Let me correct myself, I'd stay Aransu if you find it easier to get the extra Elysians/Moonstes/Soulstones/Sacreds instead of the extra gold. Since I play multiple alts, I get mats pretty fast, so I find it easier to go Rift 9 > Raven 9 > Aransu 3 > Aransu 9

Yet I see plenty of people just sitting on Riftwalk weapons and doing less than the already low minimum requirement for dps in the easiest of dungeons. And I literally say if you're getting a better weapon in less than a week, then don't bother.

A lot of people don't use the correct talents or even play their class well. Improving there would always help, but that's besides the point. I don't get how it's not getting through that big smart head of yours... you're not one of newbies who want to improve their damage, and I guess you don't need to if you can do 200k on your BD using Riftwalk instead of Raven. Would your 200k be higher with Raven 3 instead of Riftwalk 6? Yes it would, so it would have been better for you to use if you need more damage. Do you personally need more dps enough to make it worth getting a Raven 3 weapon? No, you're happy with your 200k using the crappy Riftwalk weapon, good for you. The change would be for a BD using Riftwalk 3-6 and actually wants to increase their dps while doing their daily challenges and event runs until they can get Raven 9 /Aransu / Storm Dragon. P.S. it is not that fast for all newbies to get this. What the hell is the point in telling them not to take a small step for a better weapon as a placeholder until then? Because it's temporary? So are your BT accessories and Dragon/Tiger Bracelet and VT soul shields, but people still upgrade, augment and add crit to those.

This would be more understandable. I figured it's not a big deal if someone sent wings to their main who's running TT, because I mean... you're clearing the raid and just speeding up a tedious process slightly; getting the correct stat Soul Shield or maxing it, but you still earned the achievement to buy them. Still though, it's a fair point.

The wings are supposed to be a slowly accumulated way to buy the soul shield pieces you want. Not clearing bosses in the raid for achievements restricts what you can buy to fewer pieces so you can't complete the set as easily. Weeklies for a while now offered at least a way to get the 3 piece set over time, for completing easy versions of some of the raid bosses. Restricting it to 2, making wings useless without MSP doesn't make much sense, but whatever. If you can't even get a 3 set with them alone, they may as well be account bound. Not sure what your problem is, it's not asking for much.

The OP is about wings specifically, not just any source of the soul shields. I'm referring to the fact that you cannot buy above TT 2 with wings unless you actually run TT, which makes it seem stupid that they're character bound with such a limited use.

They will be eventually, but given that we can't even get a 3 piece set at the moment without running TT, I think it's dumb that we can't already.

Can't defend NCSoft's actions, but just to touch on a few things you mentioned to hopefully help you out. The Brilliant Keys are not supposed to be purchased with HM or NC Coin, that's a complete and utter ripoff. Even the gold price is high unless you're desperate. They're either from events, daily dash, or solar energies in the Dragon Express so save your gold/coins for something actually worth it. As a Warden, Dawnforge is the most useless weapon you can choose. Riftwalk is arguably ok for the Blade Ward cd reduction, but I would still just make a Raven 3 weapon on the side for the Attack Power bonuses instead and just use a different weapon appearance. Personally, I'm not welcoming someone who trades performance for aesthetics and holding back the group because they choose not to do what they can to pull their own weight. But, to each their own, do what you enjoy, that's most important at the end of the day. Sacred Vials do not have a chance of failure to transmute, but they are not meant for people still working on beginner/mid-tier gear. The value of the processed + tradeable mats is more than the oil you're transmuting IF you still need Moonstone and Elysian Crystals. The soul is meant to be an end-game grind, so if the Moonstone/Elysian Crystals are worthless for you, then the tradeable mats may be worth less than the oil, only then are they worth transmuting. That's why we get a few from every event, it's something we slowly work on over time. Where I do agree with you is the cost, it is unfair and ridiculous how much it takes to progress your soul, which is becoming an essential upgrade for enough dps to do the higher end content. Should it be free? No. Should it be a handout? No, before some smartass tries to put words in my mouth. I'm asking for a fair amount of effort required to reach at least the now earlier stages. Stage 6 to Stage 10 should not cost any oils at this point of the game. Stage 10 to Awakened Hongmoon/Ascending being the most basic soul and pretty much free for those fortunate enough to get them from events, should only cost 2 or 3 oils. It's a beginner stage soul, make it accessible for beginners. Awakened Hongmoon/Ascending to True Hongmoon/Ascending should be reduced to maybe 5 oils, and the rest is fine as is for now, you'd have the basic buff to help, and can work on it over time.

Oh.. well yeah it's confirmed, it's something almost every player in the game with an 8 gem slot weapon has done.

I think you misunderstood. I said you farm the 3 mini bosses for Naryu Silver, and then you use those Naryu Silver to buy the Light or Dark Weapon Boxes from a Naryu Coin Exchanger and then the boxes give you a weapon with a random number of slots. Keep trying until you get an 8 slot weapon.

Is that a bird? No, it's a plane? Nope, it's the topic going right over your head.

That's you, but I've met a few who can't even do Yunsang with Rift/Dawn 3. That's knowing mechs and being efficient at playing through skill more than sheer damage. My suggestion is to increase damage and help your efficiency as you improve.

Don't those drop the regular Naryu Coins? It takes 20 of those to get 1 silver, much faster to just get the Silvers directly, but correct me if I'm wrong. And what you consider good enough for your alt, I may not consider good enough for my party, so you'd be kicked. But at least you'd look good.

Honestly, they should've just given Raven 3 with 6+ slots, the Riftwalk feels like a newbie trap. If it doesn't get gem slots, it's trash and they end up needing to evolve one anyway unless they take the gamble and get lucky or mistakenly work on it without knowing about the gem slots then they end up being milked for hammers. I remembered getting Naryu Tablets from the main quest, just wasn't certain how many, so I looked it up and you get a total of 25 from Act IX: Chapter 3/11/15. You either need (18 Naryu Tablets, 2 Raven King's Souls and 1 Raven material) OR (28 tablets, 1 Raven material and no souls), I'd prefer to just use the 2 souls, but let's stick with 10 tablets. On my latest alt, after doing the extra 3 quests Know Thine Enemy I, The Dead Refuse to Die, and Know Thine Enemy II, I have a 20,000 peaches. You would need to buy 31 more Naryu Tablets to reach Seraph or Baleful 12 twice, which will cost 9300 peaches, and you need 10k for the Syrok and Ujara weapons. Then the rest you can get on your daily grind, learning dungeons as you save up mats and Legendary Elements to evolve the rest of the way. And you would have the Raven 3, which gives you great AP multipliers by hundreds of percent, making it much more enjoyable to run those dungeons while working on your Riftwalk weapon. Not saying I'd kick someone for using Riftwalk, but 6 newbies with Raven 3 have a much better chance of doing Cold Storage than 6 with Riftwalk because of the difference in damage at that stage of the game. And I noticed that majority of the people I see doing under 70k dps in higher dungeons are using Rift, not Raven. I see plenty of people bragging about doing 200k+ dps with Raven 3, which is also kind of annoying, but at least it's easier to get things done with them.

I could probably help you get into BT runs for the accessories if you're interested, it wouldn't be an issue. If you're worried about not knowing mechs or not doing well enough, don't be, it's pretty much as easy as MSP 1-3 these days for dps, nothing at all that you'd have to worry about doing.

Previously, simple mode could not be used in PvP without BnSBuddy, this was just changed the maintenance before last, if not the last one, so that's why he accused you, he might not have known yet. But still, people will get mad for it regardless, it benefits some classes more than others and the flow it has from one skill to the next beyond what a player can do on their own, so if it helps you more than them, you can't honestly argue that it's fair just because it's usable. They have reason to be upset, but it is partly misdirected, they should be aiming at NCSoft for allowing it in arena when PvP is supposed to be skill based on what a player can do, not macros or any form of auto play.

Personally, I don't really care one way or another, so don't bother arguing with me, I won't reply to that. But, to explain how the person you beat views it... simple mode is cheap, just because the game has it, doesn't make it fair. He feels PvP should be about skill and rank should reflect your skill level, knowing how to play your class well enough and outperforming your opponent earns you a higher rank. Simple mode, while allowed, defeats some of the purpose(not all, just some) of playing your class efficiently because it does some things for you, and it does them well for some classes, leaving less that you have to do on your own. Now again, I'm emphasizing the some, because you said yourself, simple mode won't earn someone gold or platinum, but he finds it unfair at any rank because the player isn't using his own ability for everything. Also, you said you did no such thing, but you also said holding RMB down in simple mode, so were you using simple mode or not? "So being good at anything = cheating." where is that coming from?

When I revised the post initially, I mistakenly removed both parts that would have suggested keeping both weapons like in the video. And as an older player, you're seriously saying for newbies/alts that Raven 3 vs Riftwalk isn't a worthwhile upgrade, but the accessories are? Some of the weapons are now 100% drop chances and always drop your class-specific weapon, sparing some peaches for tablets is fine, you don't have to grind weapons like you used to, just run the easier dungeons once, and buy the harder ones with peaches/buds if you really can't do them. And this is assuming they have all the mats already and the weapons are the last things they need before getting something that make Raven 3 obsolete. At that point, this suggestion isn't really necessary for you. It's for the large number of people I see using these Riftwalk weapons for weeks. Getting Raven 3 does not take away from upgrading your accessories, but the dps increase is comparable to that of the bracelet, if not even more, and it hardly sets you back from upgrading your Riftwalk weapon. It has almost no requirement to get Raven 3, you can get it fresh out of story just by doing Midnight Skypetal Plains(MSP), Heaven's Mandate(HM) and Cold Storage(CS) and farming peaches for a day or completing the quests Know Thine Enemy/The Dead Refuse to Die and getting some tablets/silves. Rather than waiting to get 1200g worth of mats, and 180 Elysian/Moonstone Crystals, you can get Raven 3 in a day for a nice upgrade.

People like you are the ones I'd enjoy helping, playing with and learning with. My gripe is with the ones using Riftwalk 3+ and doing under 100k dps on something as simple as MSP stage 1. Lost a lot of my patience one MSP run where quite literally over half the raid was sub 100k. If it's a group of people new to the game, learning their rotation and in story gear, but improving, I'd be 100% fine with that and even offer advice if I can, but this was not the case. P.S. finding a nice group to practice with helps a lot. Muscle memory and knowledge for attack patterns and mechanics can help a lot to make up for slower reaction times, you can still do great in a lot of the higher content with enough dedication.

Good point on the gem slots, I'll edit that out, for some reason it went right over my head lol. As for everything else, did you read or skim through the post and miss the main point? I'm saying to get a Raven 3 weapon and stop there, because it's cheap and cost effective for the dps increase and just better gameplay experience over using a Riftwalk weapon. I am promoting upgrading Rift because it's cheaper, but saying while you upgrade that, to use Raven 3 so you don't have handicapped damage. And as for my case, when I was upgrading Raven 3+, I preferred to stay Raven and upgrading when I could, rather than waiting longer until I could jump straight to Aransu or Raven 9, this was before the updates, so I guess it may be less relevant now. The way this trend seems to be going, I feel newbies are almost being mislead to constantly gimp themselves on damage until Aransu 6/9, which even with the cheaper path takes a significant amount of time to reach. I think it should at least be considered whether or not it's worth just using the raid path weapon for better damage so you can have more fun while progressing at least at the earlier game.

Just my 2 cents, maybe it can help some newbies out, linked a nice in depth video below as well in case you'd rather just watch that. To make it clearer for some people. I'm suggesting to use 2 weapons. Saving your Riftwalk/Dawnforge weapon since it makes it cheaper to reach Raven 9 or Aransu, so this is the weapon you'd be upgrading. And at the same time, you'd be playing with a Raven 3 weapon for the better damage, but not upgrading it. If you aren't getting Raven 9 or better within a week, then reaching Raven 3 isn't costly or hard and the damage increase it'll give over Riftwalk/Dawnforge is more than worth it. You don't have to give up any mats like Moonstone or Elysian Crystals to obtain Raven 3, the story quests and the 3 starter quests: The Dead Refuse to Die, Know Thine Enemy I, and Know Thine Enemy II provide everything you need to get Raven 3 and most of what you'd need to reach Riftwalk/Dawnforge 3 if you have to reroll another weapon to get the 8 gem slots. Acquiring the Baleful/ weapon, if you weren't fortunate enough to get an 8 slot one from the story, can be purchased with Naryu Silver from a Naryu Coin Exchanger like in Jadestone Village. If your main has the Naryu Silver/Tablets, just mail some over, if not then: You can farm Naryu Silver from the 3 mini bosses in Celestial Basin(The ones that respawn every minute) and keep buying Dark/Light boxes until you get an 8 slot weapon. The Naryu Tablets to upgrade from Baleful/Seraph can be purchased with Celestial Peaches in the same area. If you don't have peaches or can't get them from The Dead Refuse to Die or Know Thine Enemy, then you can farm peaches and buy tablets for 300 peaches each. Lastly the Raven material and Raven King's Souls can either be obtained from BT(Skybreak Spire), Moon Refuge or purchased in F5. The market is currently bugged, and even Exact Match doesn't work for these. To find the Raven King's Souls, open F5, click on the Chest category, then just browse through the 1st couple pages. For the legendary material(orange name), search the Chest and Crafting categories and set your filter for Legendary & Above. Check both to find which is cheaper. The Sealed Trace of the Skybreak King Box let's you choose which Raven Material you want, so make sure that it's not cheaper than directly buying the specific material you need. Prices range a lot throughout the week, cheapest on Tuesday/Wednesday. If you need more details on how to check F5, just check the picture here.

You failed to realize the difference, it's not the same effort. And you don't speak for me or some others saying that we'll learn to immediately hit J and remember to accept the quest. Press J, go to Quest Letters, scroll to the bottom, select Zavnar Zeal, accept it, and remembering to do so at that because there's no notice to warn you that you need the quest again. Repeatable dynamic quest that pops up on its own, so it's much more noticeable, you can easily just click and accept right after turning in. A quest that you have to turn in much less frequently because it takes any number of kills rather than 20 every 2 minutes. Idk about you, but I'd take the last 2 options hands down. I will also mention, it's not a necessity, it's not a change I'll beg for or complain about not getting, I'm fine with the system as it is. I'm only suggesting something to make it more convenient before some smartass tries to say I'm being entitled.

While I appreciate it, even that is tedious, I often forget to retake the quest after turning in. I think it'd be much more efficient as a dynamic quest that pops up again every time you turn in if that's possible, or maybe an unlimited quest where your reward is based on how many kills you get. For example, 20 kills you 1 chests, 40 kills you get 2 chests, 80 kills you get 4, etc.

I commonly hear people say mats are cheap from trove, but it seems I took what you said wrong, my bad. Where did you get 0.49 NC coin for 1 key, or 1/100 NC Coin for HM coin? It's 49 HM Coin or 49 NC Coin for 1 key, same price with either currency. Currently in F9, 49 HM Coins would cost you 32 gold, but back during trove it was 28 gold. NC Coin is more valuable than HM Coin especially during trove because there NC Coin doesn't have the 20 key daily limit like HM Coin. In my opinion, it's only worth 20-30% more than the rate in F9, but sadly the ones in control don't feel the way and force the rate to nearly 1 gold = 1 NC Coin. At that rate, you're better off buying the 20 keys a day with HM Coin.