Starting or Joining 12-Man Raids

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I'm frustrated to no end at how this is done, and the worst part is I've probably asked this question before and got answered.  Please someone explain to me how to join or start a 12-man raid.  I'd deeply appreciate it.

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Starting: You get people to apply at you and when you reach 6 person the next person will automaticlly give you the option to open an aliance which makes your group 7/12.


Joining: Rightclick on the name of the player recruiting for the raid and press on "apply for party" if you guys have atleast 7 people you have an aliance. (you can also get invited also via rightclick on ur name)


But seriously i dont get how you cant know this.

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