How to beat FMs, Assassins and Warlocks as a Summoner? (Also some other questions about PvP)

[Yaong]

Hey guys, how's it going? I know it's lengthy but what about doing your good deed for the day? =P

 

Please, if you came here to QQ about Summoners or classes' balance, save it. I'm genuinely interested in learning about my class. I'm not QQing either, I understand that there are a LOT of skilled players who know how to combo really well. 

 

First of all, let me start off by saying that I don't PvP much. I usually just do the Arena dailies for some Soulstones and that's it, and since it's full of bots I don't really get the chance to challenge real players that much. However, today I was decided to learn a little bit and decided to aim for the 1900s and everytime I got near it (1880+ points) I'd finally duel against a really good player and get owned and laddered down, which is fine.

 

I also might not be getting my skill Tree right, and if I could have tips on that too or if you have any links, it's very appreciated. I lose Focus very quickly and I can't seem to recover it properly/in time, to the point some opponents just seem to wait for me to run out of Focus and start the long cooldowns to attack. An FM actually started dancing in front of me because that's how much powerless I was rendered.

 

So, from all of the classes I faced, the ones I'm absolutely having trouble with are the ones I mentioned on the thread's title: FMs, Sins and Locks. I did some quick research on Google but I really didn't find anything useful, so I decided to ask you guys.

 

FMs: I can't DD at all. Supposedly I should use grasping roots on them and run behind them, no? Or something like that from what I understood. However, by the time I try to do any of that they freeze themselves, myself as well and constantly heal themselves too and for some reason my cat's knockdown, stun and whatever don't seem to be of any help even if the opponent is vunerable. Some of them hit so hard and the AoE is so large that by the time I'm out of its range, I'm almost dead and also really slowed down. And when the duel is over, I barely took 2% of their HP. 

 

Assassins: they're a good opponent. They're the ones I kind of enjoyed dueling against because it doesn't end so quickly, I can fight back and have some fun. However, their constant stealth and running far away from you is kinda difficult to keep up because when I land an attack, they disappear again and attack me while invisible. I can counter that but it's only a matter of time before I lose. Also, when I can actually hit them and get their HP down a little, they start "resisting" the damage and attack back. I really can't seem to find a breakthrough to get them.

 

Warlocks: I simply can't do anything. Even if I use True Friend first, if I stealth, I'll always get chained and owned. It's so fast I can't even blink, as soon as I'm teleported to the match, they summon their thrall and boom, I'm chained and dead. If I use Seed Shroud I can barely survive a few more seconds, because they'll get me eventually and kill me.

 

 

Aside from that, I noticed that some opponents such as Destroyers and KFMs hit REALLY hard with 1 stun "combo" right at the beginning, how's that possible? My last duel was against a Destroyer that wasn't a bot and I simply couldn't do anything, as soon as the duel started she stunned me and spammed some attack that killed me in 3 seconds. My cat was stunned too, I couldn't use backstep either, literally no way of escaping. She just stunned me really fast and spammed the same (rather fast) skill, which wasn't the spinning one and I just died, I couldn't believe it. As for KFMs, they're a good match too and I have no trouble defeating them sometimes but this one KFM did pretty much the same the Destroyer did, he stunned me really quick and took me down in 3 seconds and I had literally no escape.

 

Like I said, too, some opponents (mainly Blade Dancers) wait for me to waste all of my defenses before attacking. For instance, a Blade Dancer would wait for me to try to defend myself from a combo or whatever and whenever I fought back they would get endless "resists" and after my cooldowns started they'd attack back. Is there anyway around this, too? I can defeat them most of the time even if they do that, but I guess I just get lucky because my cat is also completely useless against them.

 

How can I improve?

 

Thank you so much for your time and answers.

[beowolf]

For some actual info.  Once you almost hit plat (actually a bit higher, but whatever, you'll get there), you'll notice people actually know sht.  As in, you cross the "bot threshold" and the "summoner faceroll threshold."  There, you have to know the matchup, counters, cooldowns, setups and all that jazz.  There, at around a bit further in the mid-high plat level, you'll get to the (somewhat) balanced area where honestly, summoners aren't cancer - powerful, but not cancer.

 

FM: FM is a hard matchup if the FM knows what to do.  I have a 1900 summoner main and a 2050 FM alt, so I'm a bit biased.  FMs have stronger CC, burst, and if they spec their static Divine Veil (the big bubble), you're crippled for 15s.  Try not to fight too hard during that time, since you'll lose.  You're going to have to spec into Petal Storm and have a 3s version of their DV, but it's going to be a tough go.  Yes, using Grasping Roots and changing the angles works well, and you're going to have to burst them down when their DV and their Ice Sheath are down...which is tougher because they have better burst, better Petal Storm (in DV) and better Grasping Roots (in their freeze root) than you do.  You have priority on CC (try to "trade" CCs since if they freeze you and you knock them down, you win).  

 

Ass: I think you're favoured, even if they permastealth and know what they're doing.  It's tough, but a legit good matchup as you mentioned.  You do have more tools to deal with those guys than say FM or Dest.  Weedwhack poison, Doom/Bloom poison flicker them out of stealth.  Spec'd Bomb V is an AOE stealthbreaker, and spec'd Beckon also is a "get out of stealth while they're whacking you free" card.  They're going to probably play for time, so you're going to have to go aggressive on them.  

 

Warlocks: I haven't seen many locks in Plat, but while climbing after reset I've noticed that while they have amazing burst, their sustained is horrible.  Again, because they're a ranged class spec your Petal Storm to the health regen (like you should be doing vs FM and other summs).  I don't have much advice for this one unfortunately, aside from maybe don't waste your escape when they chain until they're raining hell on you?  Yeah I'm lost here.  

 

Destroyers and KFM: DON'T WASTE ESCAPE.  Destroyers are tough and are another counter like FM.  You can't waste escape, or be prepared to get o100-0.  Ditto even more for KFM.  Destroyers especially are your counters as you know.  Micro the cat to not attack during spin, don't attack yourself during spin, run like hell when he turns red, Q the cat before he grabs it and it becomes a 1v1, and in general run like hell and 4 until he runs out of spins, CDs and focus.  Then you have a 50/50 chance.  As for KFM...just don't blow the tab before they commit.  

 

Overall, if you're heading for plat, you're still going to get sht hate, but that's the BnS communitards and things will even out.  Good luck.

[Yaong]

@beowolf Thank you so much for sparing some time to read all of that. What you said makes a lot of sense and I was not considering a lot of things, such as using Bomb and flicking Sins out of stealth. But I still think FMs will be my biggest challenge. The only problem, too, is that sometimes I can't grasp them, I use grasping roots but it still doesn't hold them, and I have noticed that it happens against summoners as well: they can easily root me on the ground, and for quite some time actually, but when I do it, it doesn't work most of the time. Would you know exactly which Grasping Roots "version" should I use? I'm using one that says it does grasp, but not AoE, just single target, yet it doesn't grasp opponents a lot of times when it should (the version I'm using requires 3 skill points, should I downgrade it to the AoE one that requires only 2 points?)

[beowolf]

Hmm.  Honestly I think you are grasping them, but they're escaping.  FMs can movement Q, E or SS out of soft CCs like snares (you can too, but only with SS), which allows them to escape without burning tab.  If you want more info, google either a Blade and Soul All Escapes guide (youtube) or Blade and Soul Crowd Control guide (just google it, some blog or site).  I use Grasping Roots 3:1 as one of my last skills (finally got HM5!) almost entirely for the penetrate deflect trait - feel free to spec out of it to the single target Weedwhack vs someone who doesn't deflect anything back at you (ie FM, Sum, Warlock, especially Ass).  And yeah, I sometimes think FM is tougher than Dest as a Sum (FM have their own real bad matchups though).  Yeah it's not your 1 not working though; they escape real easy.

 

Edit: Either that, or some summs are bots.  I think it's likely they're just escaping, but who knows nowadays

 

[Yaong]

17 minutes ago, beowolf said:

Hmm.  Honestly I think you are grasping them, but they're escaping.  FMs can movement Q, E or SS out of soft CCs like snares (you can too, but only with SS), which allows them to escape without burning tab.  If you want more info, google either a Blade and Soul All Escapes guide (youtube) or Blade and Soul Crowd Control guide (just google it, some blog or site).  I use Grasping Roots 3:1 as one of my last skills (finally got HM5!) almost entirely for the penetrate deflect trait - feel free to spec out of it to the single target Weedwhack vs someone who doesn't deflect anything back at you (ie FM, Sum, Warlock, especially Ass).  And yeah, I sometimes think FM is tougher than Dest as a Sum (FM have their own real bad matchups though).  Yeah it's not your 1 not working though; they escape real easy.

 

Edit: Either that, or some summs are bots.  I think it's likely they're just escaping, but who knows nowadays

 

Hmmm I see. That's odd, though, now that you mentioned SS, I can't use it in the arena for some reason. No matter what I do, even if I have no debuff on me, it won't work even if I press SS nonstop. I'll be checking your suggestions, though. Thanks a lot! =)