Deflect Bug?

[PatchKid]

So, one thing that truly drives me crazy is that as a KFM using Counter when a Blade Dancer starts spinning results in getting dazed.  When trained into Counter, it says:

 

User is resistant to Stun, Daze for 2 sec on Counter

 

So, I counter, successfully - it does reflective damage - that reflective damage gets me dazed?  WTF?  I think this is a bug and broken.

[Kutsuu]

I've experienced this as well. It says "on successful skill" so I think it's not counting the counter as successful because it got deflected - similar to how you can attack into a (non sin) ground counter and counter it. I've been meaning to try elbow counter against my next BD match up. 

[PatchKid]

The counter can't be deflected.  Deflection only occurs on attacks, and the counter does attack after it successfully counters.

[Kutsuu]

Well I certainly don't see the counter attack hitting them... it gets deflected and gets me stunned. You are just countering one of their spin ticks, and essentially launching an attack into deflect. 

 

The attack says "Deals X damage on counter" - it does not mention piercing deflect. Of course nor does elbow counter so I'm not sure if it will have the same result. 

[PatchKid]

Correct.  The Counter ability does not do damage to anyone unless they attack into the counter.  Therefore - order of operations is

 

1. They Spin

2. I counter

3. They attack INTO coutner

4. My counter reflect damage

5. I should gain 2s resist to Daze and Stun

6. I get dazed anyway...

 

Very dumb!

 

If you use elbow smash, it turns counter into a damage attack, so I can see how the order changes in that scenario.  I'm not talking about elbow smash though.  Just straight up counter.

 

[Kutsuu]

I know exactly what you're talking about. I was saying that elbow counter may be a better option against BDs, and that I want to test that myself.

 

I guess I should apologize - I have this nasty tendency to try solving issues instead of simply empathizing with them. I can say from experience that it makes some people furious when you talk about solutions carelessly. 

 

Let me try this again!

 

Yeah bro WTF it's unacceptable I'm quitting if they don't fix it within 48 hours. 

[Elfae]

This is not a technical error. You need to read and understand your skill carefully.

 

KFM counter can be considered offense skill depending on which upgrade you use. Look at the tags below the skill chart, it will list which category the skill fall in.

The only first and left branch of KFM counter is defensive only. The rest of the 3 upgrade route are "Offense-Defense." This is why you can get deflected with you counter BD too quickly.

 

To avoid deflect, wait 0.5 second after they start spinning then counter. A sure way to counter is to use your KFM Q/E which are the best dodge compared to all classes in game.

 

So now hopefully you can calmly evaluate your skills before raging about it.

 

[PatchKid]

26 minutes ago, Elfae said:

This is not a technical error. You need to read and understand your skill carefully.

 

KFM counter can be considered offense skill depending on which upgrade you use. Look at the tags below the skill chart, it will list which category the skill fall in.

The only first and left branch of KFM counter is defensive only. The rest of the 3 upgrade route are "Offense-Defense." This is why you can get deflected with you counter BD too quickly.

 

To avoid deflect, wait 0.5 second after they start spinning then counter. A sure way to counter is to use your KFM Q/E which are the best dodge compared to all classes in game.

 

So now hopefully you can calmly evaluate your skills before raging about it.

 

 

Do you have a clue what you're talking about, or did you just ignorantly reply to the thread without actually reading anything...

 

I'm using the first branch.

 

Counters a frontal attack for 1 sec

Deals 18 ~ 21 [1.50] damage on Counter

Generates 3 Focus on Counter

Increases Defense by 100% for 8 sec on Counter

User is resistant to Stun, Daze for 2 sec on Counter

Decreases the cooldown of Searing Palm by 1 sec on Counter

 

Now, why does this ability generate a deflect when it does absolutely nothing until the swords or axe spinning into it causes it to reflect damage?  The 2 second resist to Daze should automatically kick in.

 

It's extremely buggy.

 

Also, how the hell is tree's 2 and 3 offensive?  The stun is REACTIVE.  Once again - it doesn't activate until you actually counter an attack.  And the 3rd tree adds threat to the counter.  Why is this so hard to grasp?

 

If you're using elbow smash, that isn't counter.  It's not the same ability.  It has a new name, new icon, and it actually attacks.

[Elfae]

And you can't use your Q/E then triple kick them instead? If your counter doesn't work then figure out something that does instead of whining. KFM got plenty of tools to put spinner on the ground.

 

Second, it's a counter move, not block. When you counter, you always send some damage back. If you want to block, then get a Blade master.

[PatchKid]

This is not a whining thread.  This is a bug inquiry.  You have no clue what you're talking about.

 

1 minute ago, Elfae said:

And you can't use your Q/E then triple kick them instead? If your counter doesn't work then figure out something that does instead of whining. KFM got plenty of tools to put spinner on the ground.

 

No, I'm sorry I can't Q/E and triple kick them when they spin spam because they are immune to stun.  I especially can't Q/E them after trying to counter because 90% of the time it lands a deflect for no reason at all except that the game is bugged.  You are the one trolling a perfectly reasonable thread asking a question about why the mechanics of the game - which are clearly spelled out - do not seem to be working.

 

I'm guessing you're a blade dancer and really don't like when people question how the class operates because frankly the ability to deflect into a daze passive / defensive abilities is 100% broken.  Argue with me all day long.  No one who actually reads the abilities is going to agree that it makes sense to allow Counter, Block, Parry or any other defensive skill to trigger daze.

 

Especially when the ability in question makes you resist daze to begin with.

 

Also, this isn't just about blade dancers.  This happens against Destroyers as well.  They're not nearly as annoying because they don't immediately get to Air Combo you for 20% of your HP after it happens, but it a deflect daze after a defensive counter - especially when the skill specifically gives you a buff to protect against being dazed - sounds like a bug.

 

Now quit whining about people identifying broken mechanics in a game that definitely has a bunch of them.  You whiny whiner!

[Elfae]

What's with you simpletons' logic? If I'm defending something, it must mean I am related to the subject somehow? Oh your honor, I am a lawyer for this scumbag because I too once raped a 7 years old boy.

 

No, I did not mean to stun them with I use triple kick because it does more than just stun.

 

And use your Q/E when they spin. I don't expect you to use it after countering it.

 

And do you considered a counter that couldn't hit its target a successful counter? Most of the buff require to successfully blocked or counter. So do you think a deflected attack a considerable successful attack? If not, then you would not receive the buff you were promised.

[PatchKid]

13 minutes ago, Elfae said:

What's with you simpletons' logic?

 

And do you considered a counter that couldn't hit its target a successful counter? Most of the buff require to successfully blocked or counter. So do you think a deflected attack a considerable successful attack? If not, then you would not receive the buff you were promised.

 

I question your logic, so resorting to name-calling is genius.  And yes, I believe you play a blade dancer...

 

Either way, the question remains.  Why does Counter inflict a Daze when you're supposed to be buffed for 2 seconds after successfully countering.  No where does it say that dealing the damage applies the buff.  Not to mention, if I Counter while a blade dancer is resistant to all attacks, I still get buffed by the Counter even though it did not damage.

 

Similar to how when I counter an Assassin in stealth, it doesn't remove their stealth, but it gives me all the buffs from Countering.  In fact, if I successfully Counter an Assassin using their sneak attack, I don't get dazed or stunned!  Amazing!  Yet somehow, countering a Blade Dancer or Destroyer's spin causes me to get dazed or stunned.

 

Broken?  Sounds broken.

[Elfae]

Again, is a deflected attack a considerable successful attack?

 

BD's spin deflect any damage for 0.5 second. If you hit the moment he spins, and damage bounce back to you, when that happens did you hit or miss?

 

A simpler test on the definition of "on Counter" is to test the focus gain. Do you gain focus if no body hits you? And do you get focus if you hit no body, assuming you able to counter but miss the hit?

[PatchKid]

4 minutes ago, Elfae said:

Again, is a deflected attack a considerable successful attack?

 

BD's spin deflect any damage for 0.5 second. If you hit the moment he spins, and damage bounce back to you, when that happens did you hit or miss?

 

A simpler test on the definition of "on Counter" is to test the focus gain. Do you gain focus if no body hits you? And do you get focus if you hit no body, assuming you able to counter but miss the hit?

 

Yes, if the attack is blocked by counter, whether the damage lands or not you still get focus and buffs.  Another good example is when a destroyer or an assassin use their iFrame attack that makes them resist everything, you can still activate counter buffs and get focus when you counter during those attacks.

 

In the end, the counter is blocking the attack, reflecting damage, and if the damage doesn't land it is irrelevant.  The fact that blade dancers and destroyers can bypass the daze resistance is still very buggy.  Unfortunately this is NCSoft's forums, so there's no one that will ever read this except the players.  If there are other KFM players who have checked into this issue in the past (as I imagine it's been around for years), then maybe they have some dev feedback, but it definitely looks broken.

[MantaZ]

its all about skill priority. KFM have lowest of all classes. So when such situation happens, BD skill will work while KFM's not. Same happens against BM when using 2 (sommersault kick) when KFM is knocked down. BM can cancel it, yet description says that opponent is dazed on successful skill, which automatically should daze him but that never happens. BM's skill have higher priority so in that situation his skill gonna work while KFM's not. 

Something like that.

[Lawltack]

This all seems to boil down, yet again, to the skill descriptions being so awful and not accurately describing what the skill actually does in practice. I have heard that they are fixing this but it is all beginning to seem pointless as hordes of players continue to leave each day thanks to a multitude of additional issues plaguing the game like server instability and no content. I really, really want to stay with this game as it has such amazing potential but this is just another problem added to the ever-growing list of motivators for me to quit.