Ebon Realm + PVP alternative ideas

[NorbertTheOpinionated]

Shackled Isles, Moon Refuge: Racoon area, Hunter's Refuge, Ebon Realm... it is obvious NCsoft wants to add some kind of new pvp function to try to revive it. I have ideas for this, but first:

 

My review of the ebon realm:

 

It's bad. I hope it gets removed or changed at the end of this event period April 22, 2020.

 

1) B&S's system of open world pvp is that you cannot be forced into open world pvp unless you put on the appropriate uniform. That was a good system. That is the way it should stay. This is a bad experiment. Don't blame it on the Ebondrake. It's not the Ebondrake's fault. It is NCsoft's fault. They designed this. Open world pvp is involuntary? That is an absolutely terrible idea. Involuntary pvp is one of the main reasons I don't play black desert. NCsoft starts implementing stuff like this repeatedly and gates progression of ANY kind behind it? I'll just quit. Game won't be any good anymore. What is the point of having pvp in the ebon realm anyway? There is no reward for it. "Killing your afk character makes me feel like a big man. That is why I do it. I should probably be in a mental institution." At least with the prestige system there was a reason to pvp (not that it was good).

 

2) Auto farming? Why not just mail us the resources in weekly installments? A game that play's itself for you defeats the purpose of a game - to be fun; something that you WANT to play for yourself. Autofarming is basically a recognition by the company that we don't even care enough anymore to muster the force of will to progress because it is that boring. If you are making a system where the game play's itself for us, you have a serious problem, and auto farming is a bandaid, not the correct solution. The correct solution: Make the game fun. Make us WANT to play the game. If NCsoft doesn't have any ideas on how to do that, then NCsoft needs to get some new people. Fresh blood. New perspective.

 

Those are the two main aspects of the ebon realm - auto farming, and involuntary nonequalized pvp. Both are bad ideas. PVE and PVP grinding should be separate.

 

 

 

 

 

If NCsoft wants to revive pvp or add a new pvp system so that people are actually interested in pvp: Equalized 6v6 battlegrounds MIGHT be a good idea... maaaaybe, but only if it does not reward progress faster or slower than anything else in the game. If you put 4 hours into it, it should reward in-game resources to progress your character at the same rate as doing dungeons for 4 hours. If it rewards better than everything else, people will get mad because NCsoft will be perceived as twisting their arms to do it. If other stuff rewards better per hour, people won't do it because it is inefficient. It has to be equal in terms of character progression per hour invested!

 

1) It would be isolated from the rest of the game similar to 6v6 now.

2) It would be voluntary. You don't HAVE to go in there for any specific form of character progression. ALL the resources you can get by doing it can be obtained in other ways too. It is purely another gameplay option if you WANT to - not any more or less efficient than other options.

3) Since it would be equalized, it would be skill based.

4) People who pay more wouldn't be at an inherent advantage. In other words, it would actually fit in with NCsoft's "philosophy" that they totally lied about when advertising the game originally at launch to get us to play, but then changed the game later on.   https://www.bladeandsoul.com/uk/news/business-model-revealed/

5) This PVP mode should allow you to choose to advance PVE or PVP gear in terms of paying the reward points for PVE or PVP currencies from a merchant.

6) NCsoft should let us buy PVE progression resources for doing 1v1, and 3v3 equalized PVP too.

 

There are multiple reasons pvp isn't popular. One reason is because if you look at ANY MMORPG, the PVP community is almost always tiny compared to the PVE community. However, in B&S's case there is another barrier that makes pvp less popular: People don't want to split their focus between PVE and PVP lest they fall even further behind in PVE than they already are.

 

B&S's design is to let you get sort of close to the end, but then ramp up the difficulty exponentially to where you CANNOT hit hard cap for PVE progression without paying literally thousands of dollars to max out just 1 character... for a few months until they add an even better tier of items that you will also need to pay for or lose hard cap status because you can't grind hard enough to maintain hard cap. Ok... now... consider that system is designed to make you feel like you are always behind the curve. It is designed to make you constantly feel like you are never good enough, and reinforces it by showing you people who are always notably more powerful than you.

 

What sort of psychological effect do you suppose that would have? It makes people want to continue to focus on getting better at the pve path right? "I don't have time for pvp! I have to focus harder at pve! THEN after I max out PVE gear I will consider doing PVP" except... they never actually reach that point because the game is designed that way and as a result, they never get around to pvp even if they otherwise would. B&S wants you to pvp too, but the design of B&S sets up a psychological barrier that artificially makes PVP less popular than it otherwise would be.

 

This is why equalized PVP that lets you progress PVE gear at the same rate as doing PVE in terms of hours invested is a good idea. You see, it doesn't conflict with the current pve system since, due to it being "revenue neutral," it won't allow people to max out their PVE gear any faster than they already can by simply running dungeons all day, so it makes no difference whether they want to grind PVP or PVE all day, but they ARE getting character progression either way at the same rate.

 

1) It IS pvp, but it is equalized, so people aren't just smashing their face against an opponent that feels practically indestructible like in present unequalized 6v6 PVP, which is extremely discouraging, and drains the fun right out of it. Equalized means even a fresh max level character can jump right in without being at a disadvantage other than them needing to learn how to fight the other classes, making it a viable option to anyone.

2) A player could use this mode as a stepping stone to get good PVP gear THEN go into the unequalized PVP battlegrounds to soften the curve.

3) You can also use it as a new game mode for something else to do instead of grinding that same old dungeon for the 200th time.

4) Since it is pvp, and you are against real people who will play differently than someone else of the same class, it adds replay-ability to B&S.

 

 

 

 

How is this any different than 1v1 equalized right now, and why would it be any more popular?

 

1) The 1v1 and 3v3 equalized pvp modes lost popularity because they aren't efficient ways to advance your character. Indeed, you need to pay people for it, or they won't do it very much, instead opting for the most efficient progression method. This is why equalizing progression rates is important.

 

Add something like the "angler's upgrade pouch" to the PVP merchants in exchange for zen beans that let people upgrade their gear at the same rate they can by running dungeons and 1v1 and 3v3 will regain some popularity. Maybe you can buy hongmoon gem powders too? Maybe evolved stones? Legendary Elements, Legendary Jewels, or a trade in that lets you buy them from the dragon express? Maybe just normal jewels/elements? Various Scales? Base gear pieces like Junsori sells, except it is for a pvp currency instead? Perhaps NCsoft introduces a PVP "core" similar to Drakon cores, Hellion cores, Imperial cores, Sovereign cores, etc, except it is a PVP core that lets you buy base PVE items? It probably shouldn't make gold though or... bots will happen. Maybe the PVP daily quests hand out a heavy gold amount like the better PVE dailies, but you can't grind them because they are dailies so there is a limit to how much gold you can make from PVP per day? Maybe you can buy stacks of 100 gold from the PVP merchant in exchange for zen beans or whatever, but you can only buy a stack 10 times per week or whatever is appropriate. Here is the design that needs to happen: Look at the grocery list of stuff that people need to upgrade their gear. Let people buy that stuff from the arena merchants in exchange for zen beans, or a new currency.

 

2) The 6v6 battleground just needs an equalized version. It isn't popular because it is too exclusive due to people that dominate it due to having better gear. If it is equalized, then having good pvp gear doesn't matter though, so how would you entice people to go in there? Again, let them progress PVE or PVP gear by making purchases from the merchant. Just make sure it isn't any more or less efficient than grinding anything else.

 

3) Look at the current rewards for pvp. Now look at the pvp gear upgrade paths. If all you do is PVP, where are you planning on getting the Elysian crystals, or sacred crystals to upgrade? You still have to pve to get what you need to upgrade your pvp gear even if that is all you care about. Even more reason to update what the pvp vendors hand out.

 

 

 

 

IN SUMMARY: Equalized 1v1 and 3v3 can be revitalized by adding decent rewards. (I love how you can trade zen beans for bloodstone fragments. This is good.) Add a 6v6 equalized battleground mode. Use the existing 6v6 maps. Use the 1v1 equalized stats the game uses right now. This stuff can be done pretty easily without inventing new zones or costing a bunch of developmental effort. All that needs to be done is change the reward structure to allow players to advance PVP OR PVE gear at the player's choice at a rate equal to running dungeons by using PVP merchants. Angler's upgrade pouch maybe? You do not need to re-invent the wheel here. Would it actually be a problem to let people PVE for PVP gear or PVP for PVE gear as long as the rate of collection of resources is the same both ways? PVP gear should probably remain cheaper than PVE gear because it is less relevant though. I would probably run equalized BGs, and 1v1 if I could get PVE advancement resources handed to me as fast as grinding MSP or running the daily purple dungeon train. Is this needed? Not really, but it seems like NCsoft wants to add some kind of new pvp, or to renew interest in the existing ones, but has failed repeatedly so there you go.

 

 

Edited April 15, 2020 by NorbertTheOpinionated

[ImoutoMaster]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb NorbertTheOpinionated:

If NCsoft wants to revive pvp or add a new pvp system so that people are actually interested in pvp: Equalized 6v6 battlegrounds MIGHT be a good idea... maaaaybe, but only if it does not reward progress faster or slower than anything else in the game. If you put 4 hours into it, it should reward in-game resources to progress your character at the same rate as doing dungeons for 4 hours. If it rewards better than everything else, people will get mad because NCsoft will be perceived as twisting their arms to do it. If other stuff rewards better per hour, people won't do it because it is inefficient. It has to be equal in terms of character progression per hour invested!

And how do you calculate the ammount ? If i run SP currently for 4 horus and it drops 3 times the box i can earn alot but if i do 4 horus Shadowmoor i probably get nothing.

I wouldnt mind being able to farm as much as we can in 1v1 currently but without theese stupid PVP box keys you can only get via PVE outside of the PVP 1v1 daily.

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2) It would be voluntary. You don't HAVE to go in there for any specific form of character progression. ALL the resources you can get by doing it can be obtained in other ways too. It is purely another gameplay option if you WANT to - not any more or less efficient than other options.

Cause Shackled Isles already did a good job right ? Shackled isles had nothing you couldnt obtain another way guess why most people didnt even boother with this gamemode ?

You need to be able to farm something inthere for example 1v1 Soul stones, 6v6 Moonstones, but thoose things need to drop in a quantity that non PVP Players can buy it off F5.

Thats how PVP generates income and dont come me with "but we are getting forced to PVP" thats not true F5 exists but PVP cant simply Buy Elder scales, Accesories etc. PVP gets forced to PVE while PVE dosent need to PVP at all.

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3) Since it would be equalized, it would be skill based.

Well i see a problem here. No gear needed = no income for NCsoft + Community theese days dosent want skill based PVP. Look at all the tournaments every single one of them is 6v6. You see like 2 actual good PVP Players others are simply pay to win in thoose.

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4) People who pay more wouldn't be at an inherent advantage. In other words, it would actually fit in with NCsoft's "philosophy" that they totally lied about when advertising the game originally at launch to get us to play, but then changed the game later on.   https://www.bladeandsoul.com/uk/news/business-model-revealed/

If they dont give an advantage its not gonna give them income. NCsoft is no company to program stuff if they are sure its not gonna generate income.

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5) This PVP mode should allow you to choose to advance PVE or PVP gear in terms of paying the reward points for PVE or PVP currencies from a merchant.

Its already like this with every PVP mode. Soul stones are used for PVE and PVP stuff, Moonstones aswell.

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6) NCsoft should let us buy PVE progression resources for doing 1v1, and 3v3 equalized PVP too.

Soul stones.

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There are multiple reasons pvp isn't popular. One reason is because if you look at ANY MMORPG, the PVP community is almost always tiny compared to the PVE community.

Awakening, Third specs, Time restrictions. Game was alive before Awakening but people saw you can now one shot with 1 button and for most "pro" players it got boring they quit.

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However, in B&S's case there is another barrier that makes pvp less popular: People don't want to split their focus between PVE and PVP lest they fall even further behind in PVE than they already are.

I see the biggest problem in a learning curve. Since Awakening etc. killed of so much PVP Players the good players are usually very low ranked without the event it would have been impossible for a new player to reach gold but now since the event pushed alot of nubs into PVP its getting more popular. Just look at 3v3 ladder. You are not forced to 3v3 in anyway but still we got nearly double the player count. They either need to keep events like the current one or force them any other way into pvp otherwise there will not be a chance for new player to learn PVP and they will simply stop and start to hate it.

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B&S's design is to let you get sort of close to the end, but then ramp up the difficulty exponentially to where you CANNOT hit hard cap for PVE progression without paying literally thousands of dollars to max out just 1 character... for a few months until they add an even better tier of items that you will also need to pay for or lose hard cap status because you can't grind hard enough to maintain hard cap. Ok... now... consider that system is designed to make you feel like you are always behind the curve. It is designed to make you constantly feel like you are never good enough, and reinforces it by showing you people who are always notably more powerful than you.

I do agree its way to hard to reach max gear but i dont see a reason to have it in PVE. Most partys even for the newest dungeon only want 2K AP even with Aransu 9 weapon you can get 2K ap thats not hard. Current max ap is 2660 or something but you can do any content if you are 2K which is around mid tier Gear. Its all about your mindset in PVE do you really need to do 20 Million DPS or is 4 Million fine aswell if you dont get kicked by other partys ?

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What sort of psychological effect do you suppose that would have? It makes people want to continue to focus on getting better at the pve path right? "I don't have time for pvp! I have to focus harder at pve! THEN after I max out PVE gear I will consider doing PVP" except... they never actually reach that point because the game is designed that way and as a result, they never get around to pvp even if they otherwise would. B&S wants you to pvp too, but the design of B&S sets up a psychological barrier that artificially makes PVP less popular than it otherwise would be.

Again this is about your mindset. If you have PVP gear its not gonna take long till you earned back what you invested via PVP. But i do have to agree most people dont think about this. They simply see the cost of decent PVP gear and think thats to expensive.

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1) It IS pvp, but it is equalized, so people aren't just smashing their face against an opponent that feels practically indestructible like in present unequalized 6v6 PVP, which is extremely discouraging, and drains the fun right out of it. Equalized means even a fresh max level character can jump right in without being at a disadvantage other than them needing to learn how to fight the other classes, making it a viable option to anyone.

Have you ever played 1v1 ? like 90% of playerbase will not be able to beat third specs that play even okish if they dont have op gear. Its gonna be hated by all the 6v6 players.

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2) A player could use this mode as a stepping stone to get good PVP gear THEN go into the unequalized PVP battlegrounds to soften the curve.

We have 1v1 and 3v3. You get bloodstones and gold income via Soul stones. You can get till Incenerator 9 + Full PVP accesories before entering 6v6 for the first time but most people are to lazy for that.

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3) You can also use it as a new game mode for something else to do instead of grinding that same old dungeon for the 200th time.

Well this works aswell so why should they boother if they can just smack in 1 dungeon after some months and the income will be generated. Just look at naryu sanctum new accesories but old dungeon. They have litterly no work creating something new but it will generate income. Why create a whole gamemode then ?

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4) Since it is pvp, and you are against real people who will play differently than someone else of the same class, it adds replay-ability to B&S.

Yeah sure thats why we have so much PVP Players. People simply go into gear balanced PVP get smacked and never play again. Gear carried PVP on the other hand is a different story.

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How is this any different than 1v1 equalized right now, and why would it be any more popular?

 

1) The 1v1 and 3v3 equalized pvp modes lost popularity because they aren't efficient ways to advance your character. Indeed, you need to pay people for it, or they won't do it very much, instead opting for the most efficient progression method. This is why equalizing progression rates is important.

Well i earned 3K in 2 days with 1v1 but ok.

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Add something like the "angler's upgrade pouch" to the PVP merchants in exchange for zen beans that let people upgrade their gear at the same rate they can by running dungeons and 1v1 and 3v3 will regain some popularity. Maybe you can buy hongmoon gem powders too? Maybe evolved stones? Legendary Elements, Legendary Jewels, or a trade in that lets you buy them from the dragon express? Maybe just normal jewels/elements? Various Scales? Base gear pieces like Junsori sells, except it is for a pvp currency instead? Perhaps NCsoft introduces a PVP "core" similar to Drakon cores, Hellion cores, Imperial cores, Sovereign cores, etc, except it is a PVP core that lets you buy base PVE items? It probably shouldn't make gold though or... bots will happen. Maybe the PVP daily quests hand out a heavy gold amount like the better PVE dailies, but you can't grind them because they are dailies so there is a limit to how much gold you can make from PVP per day? Maybe you can buy stacks of 100 gold from the PVP merchant in exchange for zen beans or whatever, but you can only buy a stack 10 times per week or whatever is appropriate. Here is the design that needs to happen: Look at the grocery list of stuff that people need to upgrade their gear. Let people buy that stuff from the arena merchants in exchange for zen beans, or a new currency.

If you limit the farmability of PVP alot of people will simply stop PVP after they reached that goal and it dosent matter what this goal is it will be reached. I do like the idea of something like Draken cores in 1v1 to buy pvp gear or evolved stones etc. the critical thing here is Evolved stones are used for Oils and Oils are probably the most profitable Items for NCsoft so its not gonna happen.

 

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 Look at the current rewards for pvp. Now look at the pvp gear upgrade paths. If all you do is PVP, where are you planning on getting the Elysian crystals, or sacred crystals to upgrade? You still have to pve to get what you need to upgrade your pvp gear even if that is all you care about. Even more reason to update what the pvp vendors hand out.

I always arguement that PVE Players can buy Soul stones and Moonstones via F5 so i have to say the same for PVP Players they can buy Elysians of F5 same with Sacred crystals