ahhhhhhhh **** it i m done

[zibouyah]

3 minutes ago, Jamein said:

What exactly are you trying to prove with that? There's no debate on whether summoners are an easier class to PVP on, your complaints were that the pet kept getting in your way when facing them.

 

Well its simple because if you say it s a "learn to play issue " then i shouldn t be able to do better on a champ i would have played for a couple of days . If i do then the "l2p" doesnt stand .

[Erufuun]

I have vastly better ELO on my Level 39 SM than on my L45 KFM even with only a fifth the amount of matches. Probably proves that I'm a bad player - but also that a bad player will do the best with a Summoner.

 

Summoner is also my worst matchup on KFM and while I can get behind the idea that the matchup is fair (if I could play my KFM properly), it still feels far away from actually "countering" Summoners. A tightly played KFM can handle an average SM with mediocre pet handling, but the targetting system is certainly not helping - it feels like an artifical obstacle to be overcome by practice. I can relatively reliably hit the SM if I want to, but sometimes mistakes happen. I tend to do better against Warlocks - because Summoner Pets sometimes look way too similar to their Lyn counterparts. Not a problem with Warlocks, luckily.

 

My point being: Targetting is somewhat clunky against Summoners and Warlocks. That's not a valid complaint in endgame, but it certainly helps badly played Summoners to reach decent ELO fast compared to other classes that don't have built-in protection against not-so-good players.

[Jamein]

14 minutes ago, zibouyah said:

 

Well its simple because if you say it s a "learn to play issue " then i shouldn t be able to do better on a champ i would have played for a couple of days . If i do then the "l2p" doesnt stand .

Summoner as a class is infinitely easier to learn and play than a KFM. I have no idea why we've suddenly moved onto this debate. Your issue was with the pet getting in the way when you were playing against a summoner, and I was telling you to learn to deal with that.

Changing classes to one of the easiest classes to just pick up and PVP with hardly shows your competent at PVP or that you don't need to learn to deal with something. Clearly you do or you wouldn't be on the forums complaining about something so basic.

11 minutes ago, Erufuun said:

Summoner is also my worst matchup on KFM and while I can get behind the idea that the matchup is fair (if I could play my KFM properly), it still feels far away from actually "countering" Summoners. A tightly played KFM can handle an average SM with mediocre pet handling, but the targetting system is certainly not helping - it feels like an artifical obstacle. I can relatively reliably hit the SM if I want to, but sometimes mistakes happen. I tend to do better against Warlocks - because Summoner Pets sometimes look way too similar to their Lyn counterparts. Not a problem with Warlocks, luckily.

 

iframes on the cat, giving you agility stacks and opens up triple kick, rush the summoner and use triple kick and punish him every time, bait out that tab escape and then C the cat (or the summoner if cat is no where near him) so that it ends in a daze on the summoner, watch him F roll then use 4 as a follow up to re-daze. Get in position, watch as the cat comes towards you and stun with Z stunning both the cat and the summoner, searing palm combo, along with applying tremor to restun both targets.

 

Not saying it will always play out exactly like that, but you get the gist, iframes are your best friend in this match up and Q/E are amazing on KFM as well as triple kick punishment after they proc it and Max agility is so easy to get. Summoners also have no counter, so punish them  with 2>R ani cancel when they are on the ground for extra DPS.

Keep an eye out for the usual petal storm and counters and you're golden.

Again, not saying it's faceroll easy, if the summoner is good he is going to do what he can to avoid all of this, but the point is KFM's have a much easier time with Summoners than say BM's/Sins do.

[zibouyah]

7 minutes ago, Jamein said:

Summoner as a class is infinitely easier to learn and play than a KFM. I have no idea why we've suddenly moved onto this debate. Your issue was with the pet getting in the way when you were playing against a summoner, and I was telling you to learn to deal with that.

Changing classes to one of the easiest classes to just pick up and PVP with hardly shows your competent at PVP or that you don't need to learn to deal with something. Clearly you do or you wouldn't be on the forums complaining about something so basic.

 

Ok summoner is easier to learn  but i play my kfm since release ...thats like 2 months . If i can do better on a summoner in less than a week then maybe the problem is not a "l2p" issue right ? or am i wrong ?

Playing summoner will put me on the other side of the receiving  hand of the targeting system .

WHat is your point about summoner ? so playing summoner and getting in the top 3000 players doesn t make me competent at pvp ?

[Jamein]

12 minutes ago, zibouyah said:

 

Ok summoner is easier to learn  but i play my kfm since release ...thats like 2 months . If i can do better on a summoner in less than a week then maybe the problem is not a "l2p" issue right ? or am i wrong ?

Actually the issue with summoners in the sub platinum bracket is other people just can't deal with their skill set. Be it from lack of skill points/HM skills available/level 50 skills not here right now summoner has a pretty strong kit at level 45. That plus the fact people in Mid gold and below just aren't that great (mainly due to lack of game knowledge), so they struggle against summoners. Same situation with destroyers, people in the low gold and below really don't understand the game that well and a destro can literally spin to win, get it to platinum and they aren't such a power house. That's why it won't prove a thing.

Quote

Playing summoner will put me on the other side of the receiving  hand of the targeting system .

WHat is your point about summoner ? so playing summoner and getting in the top 3000 players doesn t make me competent at pvp ?

A lot of people could play summoner to a fairly decent rank but would fall infinitely short on another class, it's just the ease of the class and the way it fights vs other classes as well as the fact some classes just don't have vital HM skills yet. Summoners tool kit at 45 is strong.

If you're out to prove something go get a BM to platinum or above, no one will question your skill level after that.

 

Like I said, all this has nothing to do with your original problem, being unable to target properly which is purely an experience kinda thing.

[Erufuun]

39 minutes ago, Jamein said:

[...]

 

Again, not saying it's faceroll easy, if the summoner is good he is going to do what he can to avoid all of this, but the point is KFM's have a much easier time with Summoners than say BM's/Sins do.

 

I'm not disagreeing with that. I'd rather be KFM than Sin against a Summoner.

 

But that's why I like KFMs - they are an overall fair class with fair matchups all across the board. We aren't hard countered but we don't hard counter either.

A well played KFM will win because he's a good player, not because he's playing a faceroll class. A bad player will not have success with a KFM because he's a bad player, not because his class choice was bad.

 

But I disgress.

[VRock]

change the targeting sensitivity in options 

[zibouyah]

43 minutes ago, Jamein said:

Summoner as a class is infinitely easier to learn and play than a KFM. I have no idea why we've suddenly moved onto this debate. Your issue was with the pet getting in the way when you were playing against a summoner, and I was telling you to learn to deal with that.

Changing classes to one of the easiest classes to just pick up and PVP with hardly shows your competent at PVP or that you don't need to learn to deal with something. Clearly you do or you wouldn't be on the forums complaining about something so basic.

 

iframes on the cat, giving you agility stacks and opens up triple kick, rush the summoner and use triple kick and punish him every time, bait out that tab escape and then C the cat (or the summoner if cat is no where near him) so that it ends in a daze on the summoner, watch him F roll then use 4 as a follow up to re-daze. Get in position, watch as the cat comes towards you and stun with Z stunning both the cat and the summoner, searing palm combo, along with applying tremor to restun both targets.

 

Not saying it will always play out exactly like that, but you get the gist, iframes are your best friend in this match up and Q/E are amazing on KFM as well as triple kick punishment after they proc it and Max agility is so easy to get. Summoners also have no counter, so punish them  with 2>R ani cancel when they are on the ground for extra DPS.

Keep an eye out for the usual petal storm and counters and you're golden.

Again, not saying it's faceroll easy, if the summoner is good he is going to do what he can to avoid all of this, but the point is KFM's have a much easier time with Summoners than say BM's/Sins do.

 

 

Now there is somethign i only saw 1 summoner do against kfm .. and i only played against taht guy today . I ve been thinking about it for weeks while i dotn even play summoner and yet its  only today that i played against a summoner that sued his brain .

The easy max agility against summoner is NOT meant to be ... thats just because most summoners just randomly press buttons and expect shit to happen .

Now let me tell you how i saw that match up weeks ago and how i think its meant to be played by the summoner .

Start of the match you send your cat now if the kfm uses e or q   you taunt with the cat.

Now if the kfm got his triple kick he will have to use his rbm ... press counter and move away now  as a kfm you re pretty much *cricket*ed in therms of getting to the summoner .

You have your tripple kick up but you are not in range of the summoner .

 

Now if the kfm opens with a penta slash ... just eat it and way  i see so many summoners breack that .  Eat the cc and taunt with your cat  and w8 for the stun . Once the stun hits you call back your cat with his knockdown ... rinse and repeat .

The match up is simple  if the kfm goes on you  you use taunt so your cat doesn't come near you and you w8 for a stun before calling him back . The kfm cant deal damage without blowing cooldowns and he wont blow cool downs unless the tab is down or to cc both the cat and the summoner .

Once the summoner understand that he doesnt need his cats damage to win he gets the edge .

17 minutes ago, Erufuun said:

 

I'm not disagreeing with that. I'd rather be KFM than Sin against a Summoner.

 

But that's why I like KFMs - they are an overall fair class with fair matchups all across the board. We aren't hard countered but we don't hard counter either.

A well played KFM will win because he's a good player, not because he's playing a faceroll class. A bad player will not have success with a KFM because he's a bad player, not because his class choice was bad.

 

But I disgress.

 

Yup kfm vs assassin is a fair match up ... and ask force masters if they think that their match up against kfm is fair ... lol

[Erufuun]

Not every matchup can be 50-50. But we're better off than FMs (hard countered by BMs) or BMs (hard countered by everything else (hue, joke)). We don't have a heavily lopsided matchup like Sin vs. Summoner. We're closer to 50-50 across the board than Summoners, whose WORST matchup feels like 50-50.

 

Tell me a class with generally more balanced matchups. Maybe Destroyer?

[zibouyah]

2 hours ago, Erufuun said:

Not every matchup can be 50-50. But we're better off than FMs (hard countered by BMs) or BMs (hard countered by everything else (hue, joke)). We don't have a heavily lopsided matchup like Sin vs. Summoner. We're closer to 50-50 across the board than Summoners, whose WORST matchup feels like 50-50.

 

Tell me a class with generally more balanced matchups. Maybe Destroyer?

 

Blade dancer and destroyer