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  1. Don't use Beckon (E), as the KD won't work as a joint attack. Use Thorn Strike and Anklebiter, make sure their white bars are gone, and you have to hit them before they start to spin, as they deflect attacks while spinning.
  2. All of this is true, but while it is true, s3 bees WITH these current limitations you list is STILL significantly higher than sunflower in PvE single target. Yes, standing in melee and moving constantly is more difficult, but if you can do it, you'll deal much higher damage with s3 bees than with sunflower. Rosethorn working on hit rather than on use (which was changed in July KR patch) does not "stop it from being useful" right now, it just means you have to be close and move. It will be stronger when the skill changes come in, but that doesn't mean it's not higher damage now.
  3. That's really interesting! I spend a few hours this afternoon testing myself, and posted my findings in detail here Maybe we can discuss there, I don't want to drag this thread more off-topic. I'll reiterate though that, since in my testings bees s3 performs very highly, HM seed shroud is well worth it imo. I should do some tests where I use it and see how high I can get!
  4. What this thread is for: PvE parses of the summoner s3 bees spec and the sunflower spec. Discussion of the parses, and these builds in PvE, based on the data provided here by myself and others. What it is not for: QQ, conjecture, discussion of what is better in PvP, "well this is clearly better because I say" posts without data. There's plenty of threads for that already. Thank you! *** When the last skill change patch hit, I did my own testing and found that bees s3 did a lot more damage than sunflower for me. I decided to do some more
  5. Where did you test? Did you move constantly while using it, and stay within 1-2m of your target? During my testing (on Profane Jiangshi boss solo in Necro 4m) I didn't use HM seed shroud at all, only using s3 bees with constant movement in melee vs using sunflower, and s3 bees was over 1k DPS ahead, without the HM seed shroud buff. In a party, with equal gear, I out DPS assassins, warlocks, KFM and blade masters (I haven't run against a FM lately). In addition, I think bees scales better - with 740ap I reached 51k dps on the final boss in Lair, with KFM blue buff and soulburn,
  6. I thought it wasn't working for a while, because I assumed the buff effect happened only when you use party seed shroud, not regular seed shroud. Turns out it's on regular seed shroud, which is awesome since the cooldown is only 8s. Spec down the left-hand side, s3 bees, counter with regular 4, and you should glow and see the bees buff.
  7. This patch was a fantastic buff for single target DPS for summoners. In equal gear, I can out DPS assassins on single target bosses, even though their restraint skill hits about 20% harder than ours does. I will sing the praises of s3 bees forever. Try it. S1t5 rosethorn, 3st5 bees, s3t3 flying nettles, get on a dummy and try LMB+RMB spam while constantly moving in melee range. The cast speed and damage is bananas. I only hope the upcoming damage reduction on s3 bees will be offset by the awesome upcoming changes to s1t5 rosethorn, which will also make being in melee unnecess
  8. s3 bees is the strongest single-target summoner DPS right now, by a large margin. Many people don't realise this, because in order to get max DPS out of it, you have to move constantly, and be in melee range. So for all dungeons in PVE when you don't need AOE, and can be in melee range (this is pretty much every boss except for 4 specific encounters) s3 bees is king, giving summoner massive single target DPS. The HM seed shroud, which gives you 550% ap bonus on your bees for 3s potentially EVERY EIGHT SECONDS if you can counter enough, is a huge DPS gain. To say it is worthless is to real
  9. Damn, that's going to be a nice buff! Once I retried bees (s3) with constant movement in melee, the DPS shot up, it's by far the highest DPS spec for me. I love it. It can be annoying, meleeing without the decent Q E iframes melee have that keep them in melee range, but I'm able to match DPS with an equally geared assassin while still giving out huge party heals. I can't wait for the upcoming change though! Even faster bees, woohoo! Edit to add: Testing s3 bees with both left and right-hand flying nettles path, I found that, although the left-hand nettles was bett
  10. I was wrong - I just tested s3 bees while moving constantly and while standing still. 16-17k standing still, 21k+ while moving. Moving really does make more instant-cast bees happen (or maybe it makes them happen faster because it doesn't waste time starting and stopping a cast? idk).
  11. I haven't had a chance to test this yet, but I would strongly suspect that the reason you think moving around lets you cast bees instantly is just because, when moving, you cannot see the castbar for the failed attempts at bees instant-cast, so it appears like they're all instant. If you could test it with a DPS meter, both moving and not moving, I think the DPS would be the same. But like I said, I haven't had a chance to test that yet.
  12. Naryu Lab doesn't have a 4man mode, thus no meter. EDIT: After reading what someone wrote in another thread about needing to move to cast cancel s3 bees, I ran a test with s3t5 bees again - this time I came up easily 21-22k range, while constantly moving. It was jiangshi so I didn't get an opportunity to use HM seed shroud more than once. I'll do more testing with it vs sunflower, and with it with s1t3 nettles and s3t3 nettles, since it suffers badly from focus starve.
  13. I did my testing on soloing Jiangshi in 4man necro, rather than in Mushin, because I wanted longer parses and mobs with higher defense. I tested s3t5 bees, s1t5 bees and sunflower, using s1t3 flying nettles each time, and doing no cc. My rotation was basically LMB RMB and keeping 3 (petal storm toss), 2 (s1t2 thorn strike), 1 (s2t2), flying nettles and Doom n Bloom on cd (obviously with endless RMB spam for saturation). Sunflower out-performed everything else, with 22k-23k even on parses when I messed up and got knocked down for a sec. s1t5 bees came in second, average
  14. Ahh thanks for figuring that out! So I guess the travel time of Rosethorn is the issue. I'll do some tests in melee and see how it fares vs the other bees spec.
  15. Honestly even before they removed it, it was worth paying to get HM anklebiter for quality of life. Doing the E-tab-V thing while dodging lightning bolts on Iruga was absolutely no fun.
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