Remove Multitool

[sojaa]

You need to do this. For real same offenders still abusing.

[LaraKelly]

yeah get an actaul anti chest, not this Game Guard which I also donno what it does except cause issue for those who don't cheat.

Or check game guard logs and see who login and don't have gameguard on, and bans those. Those cheaters just ruining the game anyway there is no use to keep them even tho how many they may be. They don't help the game no matter how many they are!

and I thnk it may not just be multi tool but could be others too which can bascially all be avoided if the proper anti chest is done. Main focus is to actaully protect all the .xml configuration or remove the client side xml configurations and leave it on the server.

This game is becoming more worthless as if goes, it has ping issues, perfromeca eissue and now cheating issues making even grinding for gear or even pay to win it kidna worthless since cheaters can do better without need to such gear and gain gear more easily. Even kidna makes spending mooney in  the game useless. On the other hand RU BnS look like they do care to get rid of chaters.

[lillvargen]

I don't know if they even can with current anti cheat, would need a proper one for it to be able to work

CM in game wouldn't be bad either, as long as they don't experience it I don't think they will care

[Amane]

41 minutes ago, LaraKelly said:

yeah get an actaul anti chest, not this Game Guard which I also donno what it does except cause issue for those who don't cheat.

Or check game guard logs and see who login and don't have gameguard on, and bans those. Those cheaters just ruining the game anyway there is no use to keep them even tho how many they may be. They don't help the game no matter how many they are!

and I thnk it may not just be multi tool but could be others too which can bascially all be avoided if the proper anti chest is done. Main focus is to actaully protect all the .xml configuration or remove the client side xml configurations and leave it on the server.

This game is becoming more worthless as if goes, it has ping issues, perfromeca eissue and now cheating issues making even grinding for gear or even pay to win it kidna worthless since cheaters can do better without need to such gear and gain gear more easily. Even kidna makes spending mooney in  the game useless. On the other hand RU BnS look like they do care to get rid of chaters.

 

If they actually cared about this cheating issue, they would've added better anticheat like EAC or even kernel driver anticheat. 

Gameguard is probably one of the worst anticheats out there and doesn't really work at all without the addition of a heartbeat system. 

 

But anticheat only isn't the only issue here... we need a strict ban policy on top of an anticheat. 

Edited December 19, 2021 by Amane

[LaraKelly]

on the login part what i mean was

there  should be a log file for everyone's login
then gamegaurd should have a log too

so compare  the everyone login  and  game guard logs
those who login and has no game guard log  is the cheater
so just ban this 
 

[PervertedLyn]

On 12/19/2021 at 7:15 AM, sojaa said:

You need to do this. For real same offenders still abusing.

What do you want to accomplish with doing this ? Multi Tool is only a quality of life adjustment the cheats can be easily done without any software at all you simply need to put some files to specific locations.

 

So BNS buddy, Mutli Tool and whatever else exists is simply a quality of life to make cheating easier or loggin in faster.

 

Fact is no matter how good the anti cheat or whatever if the company dosent ban the people it dosent matter.

[Injan]

As someone else started to say it lately aswell after haiatus with this (sorry cannot remember your name) SERVER SIDE VALIDATION, i do not mind if it even will take an extra minute to login, as long as 2 thing are sorted

 

- server issue

- people cheating who additionaly put unncecesary load on the server

[Offy78]

8 hours ago, LaraKelly said:

on the login part what i mean was

there  should be a log file for everyone's login
then gamegaurd should have a log too

so compare  the everyone login  and  game guard logs
those who login and has no game guard log  is the cheater
so just ban this 
 

I guess they have to hire people to track this, but we all know the generosity of this company, so this is unlikely to happen.

[LaraKelly]

On 12/20/2021 at 9:25 PM, Offy78 said:

I guess they have to hire people to track this, but we all know the generosity of this company, so this is unlikely to happen.

If BNS actaully the poper staff this query should be very easy.

Other game do use these kidna methods and have no issues doing it.  They also nornmamly post that that found so and so cheaters via their log files and thus ban them.

Edited December 22, 2021 by LaraKelly

[Cupidstar]

On 12/20/2021 at 7:42 AM, PervertedLyn said:

So BNS buddy, Mutli Tool and whatever else exists is simply a quality of life to make cheating easier or loggin in faster.

 

This is not true...

Multitool makes cheating extremely easy.

All you need to do is open it and you can edit the GCD values to cheat your way through.

 

 

On 12/20/2021 at 12:15 PM, Injan said:

SERVER SIDE VALIDATION

 

That was me!

I think anti-cheat is useless without server-side validation.

 

It's like covering a hole on your car with noodles and super glue.

It works fine ... for 5 minutes ... until it rains and makes it all worse.

 

That's exactly what happened with Game Guard.

It was added to the game, it broke F5, broke logins, stops working and kicks people out of the game randomly with error 40xx...

 

This could all be avoided with server-side validation.

And could be done a lot faster and easily, assuming the server code isn't a total mess, like the UE4 client...

[LaraKelly]

Actaully it quite easy to check it from the server, you could mostly find stuff from just the log files.

Game like DCUO that I used to play mainly just uses log files to find and ban cheaters, they don't need useless game guard. When I used to play the game cheaters get banned like within a day or so of tme cheateing, where it be in the forums.

I used to also be a network admin and I just check log files and find all kidna trojens (that some downlaoded not knowingly) etc tryng to hack the network or external site trying ti break in  and block/remove them. You could also write scripts to auto query certain key poinst and do certain action when it happens. Many posibilties and very easy to do if you know what you are doing.

Like for exmaple the super jump cheat, just see who actvates it and since no more Shackle Island you know whoever use it is a cheater.  You coudl also log things that you know BnS buddy or muti tool chnages by default that normal no cheating players dont do and thus find all the cheaters easily.

Unless you have more advance cheaters who try and actaully mess with logs files, just looking at logs files on the server may be all that needed. But I dont think these cheaters in BnS have tried to hack the server.

and that's just log files , could also add more tools on the server too.

Edited December 30, 2021 by LaraKelly

[LynMasterRace]

Won't happen in a million years. The only way to destroy Multi Tool and BNS Buddy would literally be to sue their developers into the ground, and there are indications at least one of them is not living in America. International lawsuits are extremely expensive...more so when you consider the ripple effect of people quitting if these tools are disabled or prohibited. Those facts are what keeps them around: it would cost NCSoft more to combat then it would to just passively ignore.

 

Alternately...if NCSoft provided a similar toolset, that could mitigate the 'need' to use them for performance reasons. Provide us per class animation and effect disabling in the game itself, and you eliminate one of the compelling reasons to use alternate launchers.

[Cupidstar]

9 hours ago, LaraKelly said:

Game like DCUO that I used to play mainly just uses log files to find and ban cheaters

 

Too much work, NCSoft would rather spend time on ....

 

9 hours ago, LaraKelly said:

useless game guard

 

 

 

9 hours ago, LaraKelly said:

I used to also be a network admin and I just check log files and find all kidna trojens (that some downlaoded not knowingly) etc tryng to hack the network or external site trying ti break in  and block/remove them.

 

That's different.

 

 

9 hours ago, LaraKelly said:

Like for exmaple the super jump cheat, just see who actvates it and since no more Shackle Island you know whoever use it is a cheater.

 

There's better ways to do this, like, checking where the whatever are in the air, when they were hit.

 

If it was hit outside a threshold, for a few hits, it's a cheater.

 

 

 

9 hours ago, LaraKelly said:

You coudl also log things that you know BnS buddy or muti tool chnages by default that normal no cheating players dont do and thus find all the cheaters easily.

 

This is a lie and you know it is a lie.

 

Just because someone uses a competent launcher doesn't mean they are cheating.

 

Also, just because multitool makes cheating EXTREMELY easy, doesn't mean people who use it are cheating.

 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, LynMasterRace said:

The only way to destroy Multi Tool and BNS Buddy would literally be to sue their developers into the ground, and there are indications at least one of them is not living in America.

 

Yes, because suing people who have nothing to do with cheating will really fix cheating...

 

Suing BnSBuddy wouldn't stop cheating at all.

Suing multitool would slow down cheating, but a competent cheater doesn't even need multitool.

 

Instead of suggesting wasting money on things that won't do any good to anyone and won't fix anything, how about you suggest investing the name in proper tools against cheating?

 

You do know you can cheat with just Cheat Engine, and nothing else, right?

 

 

 

5 hours ago, LynMasterRace said:

Alternately...if NCSoft provided a similar toolset, that could mitigate the 'need' to use them for performance reasons. Provide us per class animation and effect disabling in the game itself, and you eliminate one of the compelling reasons to use alternate launchers.

 

For NCSoft to provide a similar toolset to BnSBuddy and multitool, they would need to:

- implement safely saving logins and automatically logging in
- allow multiple clienting

- allow editing XML files (except the files inside .bin files)

- add modding support

- add splash-screen modding support

- add GDC manipulation (cheating, as multitool does)

- allowing disabling effects and animations per-class

- add functionality to fix the FTH problems

- real-time ping calculation

and other functionalities that NCSoft will never implement.

 

 

 

I strongly recommend informing yourselves before talking about something as if it was a fact, when all that was said only shows a complete lack of knowledge of the subject matter.

Edited December 30, 2021 by Cupidstar

[LynMasterRace]

2 hours ago, Cupidstar said:

stuff

I am reasonably informed, and I am not wrong: lawsuits would quickly destroy BNS Buddy and BNS Multi Tool. I did not once say anything about cheating myself in any capacity. Ending cheating will never happen as long as a lot of the games files are exposed to the end user and there is no server side validation...and even that would not be flawless and could not defeat macros.

[Cupidstar]

1 hour ago, LynMasterRace said:

lawsuits would quickly destroy BNS Buddy and BNS Multi Tool

 

Lawsuits would quickly destroy nothing.

 

In USA, you can sue anyone for anything, yes, but doesn't mean you win.

 

However, there's absolutely no reason to waste any time on that, at all.

 

 

1 hour ago, LynMasterRace said:

and even that would not be flawless and could not defeat macros.

 

Well, macros are extremely useful for people with disabilities.

 

And no, just because they are disabled doesn't mean that they can't play the game.

This is one of the reasons why (besides preference and NCSoft showing how lazy they are) that people complained about the missing gamepad functionality.

 

There are macros that allow you to do stuff like implementing copy-paste into the game, which the lazy devs didn't implement because ... lazy.

 

There's also macros for botting, which I'm against with.

 

Or just macros for convenience.

 

 

 

In general, most people think that just because someone uses a tool that can enable cheating, that they are using it for cheating and therefore they are cheaters.

Which is so far from being the reality.

Anyone that disagrees with this is completely disconnected with the world.

[LynMasterRace]

6 minutes ago, Cupidstar said:

In general, most people think that just because someone uses a tool that can enable cheating, that they are using it for cheating and therefore they are cheaters.

Which is so far from being the reality.

Anyone that disagrees with this is completely disconnected with the world.

Don't get me wrong, I actually agree with you. Many people use it for performance reasons, hence why I suggest that if BNS were to get some of the PERFORMANCE stuff incorperated into the game, it may eliminate some tool usage.

 

As a note, the devs of Multi Tool and Buddy would absolutely lose a lawsuit: NCSoft actually has a few ways they could go about it. Trademark infringement could be one of them, violation of the terms of service, or simply putting forth the theory that it loses them profits (lol).

 

But it absolutely would cost them far, far more then they'd ever gain from it. So they let it slide instead. Maybe they ban the odd person that's so blindingly obvious that even NCSoft's staff can read the logs and go 'that person is CHEATING', but there's some proof that no staff really knows how to manually read the server logs.

Edited December 31, 2021 by LynMasterRace

[Cupidstar]

2 minutes ago, LynMasterRace said:

if BNS were to get some of the PERFORMANCE stuff incorperated into the game, it may eliminate some tool usage.

 

That's a very reasonable thing to assume, yes.

 

I do believe that a good part of the need would be reduced, yes.

 

However, the launcher is still garbage-tier.

Even the server part is so bad that it randomly says your password is invalid, even when it is valid!

 

And when the email server randomly dies and doesn't send the pin emails....

It's so much fun!

 

 

 

But with this being said, I disagree with the stance of the post of "remove multitool".

I believe that quality-of-life tools shouldn't have easy-to-use cheating facilities, and multitool should make its cheating methods harder to use or remove them completely.

[Lazypen]

Remove DN

[PervertedLyn]

After reading all this conversation happening here i still dont get what the point of this thread is.

 

Remove Multitool etc ? fine for what ? Multitool per se is a launcher nothing more. If you want to use Addons etc. it orginizes it in a convenient format thats all it does.

 

Cheating is done with 2 small files you put into your game and all you have to do is create another place with your addons no launcher needed at all.

 

Removing Multitool would acomplish nothing expect creating another inconvenience for non cheating people since they would have to use the Retail Launcher again which is a hassle. Cheaters would just use their addons without using an additional launcher.

 

The only thing that could help would be an actual support staff that bans people permanently but that wont happen it would still make more sense to create a thread about this topic which has been talked about enough already thou.

[swordin]

the NC launcher works just use that.

 

perma-ban any account that has logged in from anything else.

 

how about that.

 

then finally you can submit requests/ideas from a legitimate account for how they could improve their ToS compliant launcher.

 

let them start over from scratch, gear doesnt matter anyway. Devs continue raising the high and low bars; its about enjoying what they make available to their players and not taking advantage of vulnerabilities like latent rapists.

[PervertedLyn]

3 hours ago, swordin said:

the NC launcher works just use that.

We know how bad it is. Also i am still asking what do people want to accomplish in removing multi tool ? multi tool is not the thing used for cheating its used for organizing it.

3 hours ago, swordin said:

perma-ban any account that has logged in from anything else.

Looking at how many players this game has currently it would be better to just close server then.

3 hours ago, swordin said:

then finally you can submit requests/ideas from a legitimate account for how they could improve their ToS compliant launcher.

I am serious i guess around 90% of players use some kind of 3rd party launcher its more efficent to just close the servers then. Also you would ban every single whale. Its unlikely they will just start over if you ban their main char.

 

Pls dont ignore my question i want to know what would it bring to remove 3rd party launchers ? The whole purpose of this thread seems to make the live of the playerbase worse.

[Cupidstar]

7 hours ago, swordin said:

the NC launcher works just use that.

 

It barely works. It's put together with spit and glue.

 

 

4 hours ago, PervertedLyn said:

multi tool is not the thing used for cheating its used for organizing it.

 

Multitool makes cheating so stupid easy: you can just go there, edit the GCD values and done!

 

 

4 hours ago, PervertedLyn said:

The whole purpose of this thread seems to make the live of the playerbase worse.

 

It feels like it is just someone crying "wolf" because someone else did, without seeing the "wolf".

 

The whole thing started from a place of pure ignorance, and the ones that are wrong just stick their fingers in their ears and sing "can't hear anything!".

You can't get anything through because they just don't want to actually know what they talk about.

 

Feels like a troll post just to entice drama, instead of actually bringing some value with constructive reasoning.

 

[swordin]

programs are not “spit and glue” 

 

you have to use what the developer makes available for public use otherwise you might as well get permanently banned because they already drew the line, you agree to it when you start the game.

 

99% of the “90%” you keep

mentioning will follow the rules once the  judgement is made. There will

never be any competitor to Blade & Soul.

 

if there are features that are worth asking for and worth implementing, the developers will add them in when they get a chance, otherwise its too bad you ruined your perspective on what is part of the game.

Humble yourself before you get it done to you.

[Cupidstar]

6 hours ago, swordin said:

programs are not “spit and glue” 

 

It's an expression...  🤦‍♂️

Please read a little: https://english.stackexchange.com/a/36206

 

 

6 hours ago, swordin said:

There will

never be any competitor to Blade & Soul.

 

LOL!!!! Really??? There are other MMORPGS out there, you know it, right?

 

 

6 hours ago, swordin said:

the developers will add them in when they get a chance

 

No they won't.

EU/NA doesn't have voice chat, despite being available since 2012.

 

 

6 hours ago, swordin said:

you ruined your perspective on what is part of the game.

 

I know more about this game than you do.

Probably more than some of the developers.

 

There's a lot of people that know a lot more than me, yes.

I won't deny it.

 

[PervertedLyn]

On 1/3/2022 at 5:03 PM, Cupidstar said:

Multitool makes cheating so stupid easy: you can just go there, edit the GCD values and done!

Well yeah but like i wrote its litterly put in the files you downloaded from Discord in the right folder. Its not exactly science. My point here is removing third party launchers would have no effect since cheaters just do it manually then.

21 hours ago, swordin said:

you have to use what the developer makes available for public use

So NCwest employees are an exemption ? they have been using bns buddy themselfe on stream.

21 hours ago, swordin said:

99% of the “90%” you keep

mentioning will follow the rules once the  judgement is made. 

Yeah sure motivation will be high if your char got banned that you invested houndreds if not ten thousands of €€€ into. The only logical reason there is why they refuse to ban people is their income would be destroyed. Thoose people will simply stop playing the game completly.

21 hours ago, swordin said:

never be any competitor to Blade & Soul.

There are severals and Blade and soul is one of the worst rated MMORPGs at this point.

Low Playerbase, Cheater infested, Performance Issue, Pay to win, huge pvp balance issue.

 

If i wanted to give 1 example Final Fantasy.

21 hours ago, swordin said:

if there are features that are worth asking for and worth implementing, the developers will add them in when they get a chance,

like they did in the last 5 years ? few things got into the game but mostly not cause we asked for them but cause KR already had them.

21 hours ago, swordin said:

otherwise its too bad you ruined your perspective on what is part of the game.

Dont get me wrong here i am just occasionally ingame to do some pvp matches and hope to read here in forum someday that the cheater problem is gone so i can play pve again but in this state of the game ive quit the PVE aspect completly after 5 years of playing. Ive quit it just before this tower with the floors released.