Returning player, dailies and dungeons (easy mode) too hard

[chilegamerz]

Also lower the difficulty to the only dungeons because also doing them daily is very complicated more when the skills still do not work properly they take a long time to launch a skill and that costs to do the mechanics.

 

in the end they just complicated everyone instead of improving

Edited September 11, 2021 by chilegamerz

[Rejji]

13 hours ago, healiha said:

I don't understand why the NC team feel that this was an issue. I've returned on an old character, playing with the gear we're being given through the CtA and easy mode feel totally fine.

 

Seriously people, it seems that you always want someone to carry your ass even in lower difficulty. I've run easy mode dungeons with parties full of ungeared players and we just managed fine.

 

Take the opportunity to learn both how to play your character and the dungeon mechs instead of whining about content being "too hard" for new people.

 

The idea being easy mode should be to learn mechs, proper positioning and of course, learning how to use your fingers. A boss fight which is 120s long isn't hard, it's just what it should be.

 

As an example: I had no idea how TC mechs worked, we spent 1 hours doing the same fight against the 1st boss again and again until everyone managed to do it properly. What's so hard about this? Don't you want to feel some sense of accomplishment? Is being hard carried by geared people so fun?

 

I would really be ashamed if I was asking for such a thing. If you can't even do it right in easy where mechs do not wipe your party, do you really think people will give you the time to learn mechs in normal/hard mode?

 

Sorry, but I really don't get it. Most people can't even follow on a CC when you get a FREAKING HUGE alert telling you what skill to use when someone has used a CC before you. You can even, in most cases, just press "space".

 

////// Edit

 

Beside, there is no point running easy mode for too long as the rewards are poor. You get the accessories (well, not the Silversteel ones) that we'll receive from the CtA.
Get them and start doing NM.

 

This is the most egotistical, self-serving, and self-righteous take I've ever had the displeasure of reading on this topic.
Maybe stop jerking yourself off by saying garbage like "you always want someone to carry your ass" and "whining about content being 'too hard'", seriously who do you think you are? The CEO of dungeons?  Arm-chair game developer that thinks he's hot sh*t and knows everything there is to know about everything, seriously, the worst type of person who could possibly exist in MMO communities, there's always one like you.

 

Making "easy mode" dungeons harder than +10 mythic WoW dungeons in terms of boss hp, mechanics, and personal dps is not something in the best interest of a company that just spent millions of $$ remaking a game in a new engine trying to build the playerbase and plan for the longevity of their game.  Not like you have enough braincells in your head to work out any sense of the situation other than, "it works for me so f*ck everyone else that isn't me"

Edited September 11, 2021 by Rejji

[Mewling]

9 hours ago, Uldrum said:

She will leave her new job at warcraft and rush back here just to answer this one question.

 

Every one tag @Liinxy now!

What's a Liinxy?

[Sparten]

16 hours ago, Qwyurte said:

I just hope that this change is enabled only for the duration of the event :3

Where is the sense in that? After the event it'll be even harder for people to get the "entry level" gear for the easy mode of the dungeons?

 

Also @Himeit's not just Easy mode, of course Normal mode and Hard mode are supposed to be a challenge but they are at the moment too hard, we are missing the breaker system for which the difficulty of those dungeons is tuned - ALL the difficulties are too hard for what they were intended to be.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Sparten

[Uldrum]

4 hours ago, Mewling said:

What's a Liinxy?

It's one of the previous community managers

 

"Bethany Stout" https://twitter.com/liinxy/with_replies

[Zini]

Last time they changed the difficulty it was a lie. Introduced a easy-mode.
It turned out, the new easy-mode was actually the normal-mode. Former normal-mode got harder.

 

This time, easy-mode mostly without mechs, but much more boss hp. Annoying and not doable with low gear.

 

Very bad is, we are getting the KR Changes, but not the items/gear to play them.
They did the same with the failing-weapon-upgrade. Always said: KR has much more and better items, cheaper, better drop, but also a failing system.
US/EU has less items, cost more,  low droprate, but no failing. We got now the sh... failing system too. Of course, nothing changed with the items.
We have now bad+bad.

 

For the easy-mode: I saw it only once. A former CtA Event. We could run the lower dungeons solo.
Easy-Mode should be like this.
Normal-Mode with mechs, "normal" boss hp, "normal" timer.
Hard-Mode with mechs + wipe mechs, higher boss-hp, shorter enrage timer.

 

Well, today i tried again Sandstorm Temple. This time with a low gear group hm14-17. Annoying but no problems with the timer.
3x frozen at 1st boss. But no one died again. So, its still easy to do.

 

Then Brood Chamber. And that was very annoying. Half the group low-gear again. Hm14-17. Other around hm20-22. 3-4 dead, so we beat him with 2-3. We somehow made it. And i'm playing Fire-FM, the most bad class for cc, kd, stun, resist, + very long cooldown. It's the second lowest dungeon in the list and already not doable with low gear. I would say you need hm18/20+ (1800-2000ap+) and high Defence or a good melee class with good resist + fast cooldown. I will not play BC again. Tomorrow i try Cathedra Cliffs.

 

[mochun]

20 hours ago, Hime said:

Thanks for your feedback. We are agree Hard should be... hard. We'll let you know what we end up going with.

anyone saying make hard harder is ridiculous and clearly aren't the ones doing the hard dungeons, inflating HP is adding artificial difficult when the enemies shouldjust be hitting us harder, since a lot of us got defensive options nerfed  (I.E no sheath on FM anymore). 

it's very clear that these hp values were supposed to be here along side the breaker system and other changes that are supposed to com in november. since the training dummy in F12 has the breaker mechanic on it.

if you gotta make hard harder ad 2 more CC's and make the bosses do more damage dont make us suffer the same monotonous thing even longer with inflated HP we can't even buy the gear anymore with clears so the hp will be too high to even clear with lesser gear. and party utility like Blue buff Alpha Call and Sheath on FM removed from party benefits this already lowers the parties DPS. 

Another side note 9 dungeons is also absolutely pitiful for an mmo there's so much dead content that should be revived and enter over geared players in with scaled down stats like the blackram chain supply event. all the new players are going to be bored really quickly when they get bottle necked on 3 dungeons and no way to advance further other than slogging through day by day dailies. the old content needs to be revived as alternate ways to obtain scales evolved stones and what not. or the game is just going to lose all the new players  9 dungeons not enough .

[FeralStripes]

23 hours ago, Santa Anna said:

Normal and Hard keep same as are now, Easy mode just reduce HP with like 20-30% and all good,  Easy mode doesn't kill you is brain dps and stay close to boss.

You are wrong, only Hardmode should be stay the same, I tried soloing all F8 dungeons with IA stage 9 weapon/gear on normal mode & it was almost impossible. Both Normal mode & Easy mode need to be nerfed, ATM it is very hard for new players to be able to clear the current content.

 

Please read "WhySoSeriousBro" they said it best, we got KR content this patch while the entire playerbase is still missing KR mystic buffs.

Edited September 11, 2021 by FeralStripes
Spellcheck

[Toxxxin]

So after all the effort and expense of rewriting the game, adding content, reworking combat, launching a new engine, and advertising, when a player shows up, eagerly makes a brand new character in this wonderfully OP new class you've got, hops in an easy mode dungeon and dies repeatedly....  fixing it next week is a good idea?

 

This dungeon screw up is a big "go play something else" sign to all those new and returning players. And we're just going to let it sit there for a week?

 

There'll probably be another "sorry we blew it" box for free on F10, but the players who left this week won't know or care what's in it.

[Edensia]

Just give us the same stats as the korean easymode. 

With all the mechs, but super low hp and damage from enemies. 

That was the point easymode was introduced in korea.. so new players can learn the mechs.

[Minimihi]

It is not hard.

Influx of new and returning player that are just bad at the moment. Now they have only starting Call to Arms gear but by the end of it they will be better and so much stronger. Making HP nerf irrelevant and only introducing faster power-creep and killing F8 once again.

  

12 hours ago, Toxxxin said:

wonderfully OP new class you've got, hops in an easy mode dungeon and dies repeatedly....  fixing it next week is a good idea?

Class that is hard to play as Shifting Blade

Class that has suicide skill in its starting rotation which leaves low geared players 1 attack till death

Class that they do not know how to play

Players that do not know anything about dungeons since they just started playing.

Lets have them become zombies instead of giving learning experience. If they do not want to learn, I suppose MMOs are not meant for them. Maybe go play FPS shooters.

 

1 hour ago, Edensia said:

That was the point easymode was introduced in korea.. so new players can learn the mechs.

Noone will or event attempt to learn mechanics in easy mode. You're fooling yourself, if thinking otherwise.

 

17 hours ago, Zini said:

Then Brood Chamber. And that was very annoying. Half the group low-gear again. Hm14-17. Other around hm20-22. 3-4 dead, so we beat him with 2-3. We somehow made it. And i'm playing Fire-FM, the most bad class for cc, kd, stun, resist, + very long cooldown. It's the second lowest dungeon in the list and already not doable with low gear. I would say you need hm18/20+ (1800-2000ap+) and high Defence or a good melee class with good resist + fast cooldown.

How about telling them that they need to jumps so they don't die?

Event new players survive till end of phase if boss does not spam range check (aggro holder being far).

If you are experienced player just put on Threat points and tank it. Will be much better experience for everyone. Can side step everything and w/e you need to iframe you would have to even when not tanking.

 

Running F8 LFP since start of event. Only problem I ran into is some players leave if everyone is low gear.

Though there is no reason to. Full party of Call to Arms starter gear is enough for all Easy modes. Never left myself and I ask to recruit to fill up party.

Even so it's around 4 minutes per boss fight, well within timer.

Talk to players. Ask if tanks can or will try to tank. Point out some stuff if needed, like: ST share; BC jumps; CC feathers; Forest Hong just hug wall; Forest Jinsoyun CCs (preferably KDs, shorter cooldown).

Edited September 12, 2021 by Minimihi

[chilegamerz]

On 9/10/2021 at 3:41 PM, Hime said:

First, I want to think you all for sharing your feedback and experience on this. We'll be further reducing the Boss Health and AP to the dungeons for all 3 difficulties. The change will go in next Wednesday during the maintenance.

I am free to play and I only stay as premium, please reduce the difficulty of the only dungeons and all the dungeons even the hard mode since not all of us are pay to win and it costs us more to those who play the free to play mode Take that into consideration, I've been playing for years and it really costs a lot if you're not a whale.

[Ketsura]

On 9/10/2021 at 6:58 PM, Yolaaaaaaa said:

Not gonna lie, that's a unnecessary nerf.
People should learn how to do all dungeon mechs to clear it instead just press their face on keyboard and burst everything. The game now is ok, just active the ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ anti-cheat, because theres still cheaters around. 
You can let EASY mode only for new and return players complete the daily for their call to arms event, anything else is literally unnecessary.

its not really that simple to "learn mechs", the game isnt intuitive in dungeons it offers, we dont have articles saying  how it supposed to be on our website. We rely entirely on guides posted by someone or videos. It gets worse because the second option is even harder to get, since nobody is really doing guide videos anymore. Me for example: I only really learn anything watching guides. If I read written guides, most likely Ill not remember half of the things right after I read.

[SomeRandhundo]

On 9/10/2021 at 8:41 PM, Hime said:

First, I want to think you all for sharing your feedback and experience on this. We'll be further reducing the Boss Health and AP to the dungeons for all 3 difficulties. The change will go in next Wednesday during the maintenance.

@Hime, please tell to the team to not nerf them too hard. I think if people manage to get 10 DoT stacks from range check and what not they should deserve to be in danger and eventually dying. They just ignored the boss rotation completely (or have a tank who can outlive all of this and doesn't care about rotation and killing teammates, but that's another issue). Do not turn EM into UE3-NM, it's not gonna solve anything once people start attacking NM.

 

As Minimihi said, if EM becomes braindead it's not going to be the place to learn anything about the fights and the game, and you'll have an influx of players running into NM and ruining it for a lot of others. You must find the balance so that the fights still take some time, but just don't instakill bad players anymore (I outlived them with much worse gear than C2A starter, lol). It should, imo, still kill if the run goes terribly bad (as pointed in my first paragraph).

 

Also, please don't nerf HP by 66% (like that one person mentioned), boss is going to enter into mech by his 2nd move & is going to die before completing the first mech. It's pointless.

Edited September 12, 2021 by SomeRandhundo

[zeritox]

idk man i've so many ez mode parties disband because there were not enough dps on some bosses, just sad. Easy should be so easy that even 4 new players not knowing their rotation or the boss mechs at all should finish the dungeon, because trust me that's how everyone is out there right now, which is fine imo.

[healiha]

On 9/11/2021 at 11:31 AM, Rejji said:

 

This is the most egotistical, self-serving, and self-righteous take I've ever had the displeasure of reading on this topic.
Maybe stop jerking yourself off by saying garbage like "you always want someone to carry your ass" and "whining about content being 'too hard'", seriously who do you think you are? The CEO of dungeons?  Arm-chair game developer that thinks he's hot sh*t and knows everything there is to know about everything, seriously, the worst type of person who could possibly exist in MMO communities, there's always one like you.

 

Making "easy mode" dungeons harder than +10 mythic WoW dungeons in terms of boss hp, mechanics, and personal dps is not something in the best interest of a company that just spent millions of $$ remaking a game in a new engine trying to build the playerbase and plan for the longevity of their game.  Not like you have enough braincells in your head to work out any sense of the situation other than, "it works for me so f*ck everyone else that isn't me"

 

Sorry if my message made you feel like this, but I still stand on my PoV, even if you don't agree with me.

 

I'm in no way the best player here but can still manage to do easy mode with people having the currently attainable CtA gear. Sure it takes more time than before, but it doesn't necessarily makes it harder - my opinion though. You'll always have people having different takes on things, it's the two sides of the same coin.

The only thing that currently triggers me is when people don't take the time to learn the basics of the game and the skills of there own classe. It takes time learning bosses patterns, and I can understand the frustration this can cause when you can't stay alive during a boss. When that happens, the logical thing to do it learn from the errors we made so it doesn't happen again. (and it's the same with WoW since you decided to use this as a compareason)

 

Have your made some groups through F8, be it LFP or making announces? Most of the time, people don't really bother staying after you enter the dungeon if there isn't someone with 3k+ AP to clear the content fast (which is fine, but those people shouldn't expect the same to happen later on when they want to tackle harder content). Eveyrthing aside, if this has never happened to you, kuddos then, you're quite lucky and I'm envious. 😕

 

Don't get me wrong here, I don't believe things should stay as they are. NM/HM might be fine but for new people or undergeared ones, EM do feel too hard.

There will always be people like me who enjoy having content scaled the way it currently is but yes, it's an issue when you join for the first time and you don't know the strat. None of us want to feel like a carpet during a boss fight.

 

Not sure the compareason with mythic keys is right here since those are timed content (iirc, most keys have a 35min limit for it to be timed), but I do get your point here. But once again, before going for M+, usually you go through normal/heroic/mythic (at least, that's how it goes at the start of an extension) and learn the mechs of the bosses. Even then, I'm not sure comparing games that are drastically different in terms of gameplay is the best here, but we have to start with something.

Where does BnS currently stands in terms of difficulty? Again, I agree that HPs should be downscaled for EM content.

 

In my opinion, which I never asked you to agree to, if people take time to ask what they should know before a boss fight - though they might not get an answer... -, even a 120s long fight isn't hard per say. Shouldn't we all strive to learn something while having fun?

 

Quote

knows everything there is to know about everything, seriously, the worst type of person who could possibly exist in MMO communities, there's always one like you.

 

I never ever said I knew everything, so calm down instead of rampaging against someone who's sharing his opinion on the current state of things and which has seen the game deteriorate through the years for differents reasons - and I can only speak of what I've seen. I do like to learn things when running dungeons, this is what I can agree on, and I also like sharing what I know to new players so they can advance with a better understanding of the dungeons they just ran through. I don't mind people making mistakes, it's how we learn. If you think that's being "the worst type of person", I don't know what you expect the average player to be then...

 

As for the last part of your message, I do agree I might have gone overboard with the way I wrote my message but don't try to make me say things I didn't. Also, since you don't know anything about me or what my work actually is, assuming I don't have enough brain cells to reflect on things is quite far fetched.

 

On a side note, judging from the way you answered my message, you don't seem to want to learn things by playing a game - which is fine -, it should be fun before anything. It's just that I still feel kind of sad seeing people mentality changing through the years over how a game should be. I'm not saying it's wrong in any way, it's just that making things "(too) easy" is in my opinion, detrimental to a game as it makes it harder for the devs to increase difficulty on later content without having to downscale it afterward. Games are made to target specific kind of players, there is no "all including" style as everyone is different and will be attracted to different gameplay. 

 

Edit: forgot to mention that current content should have been released with the next part of the story as it gives you enough gear to clear EM content. Sadly, something went wrong there as always and we didn't get everything we should have gotten to make it enjoyable for everyone.

Edited September 14, 2021 by healiha

[Kittyaura]

...Before the UE4 update I had 3 (once current) dungeons I could solo easily, and that was from lvl 17 on. I worked hard to get to lvl 23, and improve my equipment and weapons. Now those 3 are much harder, and  I get wiped out in one of them, but only because I run out of time. The "TOTAL DEATH" time limit is a joke. Why should the devs (DEVilopers ) care if it takes me longer to complete a dungeon solo, or in a party.? The boss cannot kill me(or us in a party) in fair combat, but its like, oh, I (we) died just because. Don't treat me like I'm trash and my hard work means nothing. If you're going to make the bosses stronger, then we should get a similar growth ratio, base on our previous player to boss status. Or at least post a storyline  explanation as to why our world has evolved, but we as players in that same world have not. Respect the players and the world you have created that we play in.

 

...As it is now, I worked hard to get where I am now, and it was all for nothing, as, the Devilopers) apparently could care less about players having fun for a few hours a day. Before, I was doing 7 to 10 daily runs (3 solo), now, I'm lucky to do 5 (2 solo-1 taking twice as long now). It really kinda takes the wind out of your sails when you reach plateau after plateau, only for it all to mean nothing.

 

...As for longed for UE4 update, its messed up in a few ways. I cannot change the graphics mode in game, and the fonts in many areas (which cannot be changed save in a few like the dungeon lobby) are soooooo small you'd need the Hubble telescope to see them. Trying to get the cursor over a minute treasure box reward trigger is hard on the eyes at best. And the input pin number box to start the game is now the size of a postage stamp... The triggers which used ti=o be clear,large and colorful are now teeny tiny small, dull and monochrome.

 

...Also, my player pictures are gone from my player screen, and although retake and re--register them, they stay blank. Graphically, parts of my character and bright and vivid, while other parts are dull and without detail. Consistency would be nice. My weapon, which I changed the image on for instance, was bright, colorful and flashy after that image change, and now its dull and no longer glows with electrical energy like it did before UE4.

 

...There's more but that's enough for now. Hope that things get better soon, and that the DEVilopers) get their act together and stop trying to (apparently) ruin an otherwise great game.... Comment as you will, but, my purpose here is to post my experiences for whatever good they may do. 'Nuff said...

[lillvargen]

I've not had any party give up in easy mode, Idm getting new players in party, the more the merrier, just pls listen to advice given by more seasoned player?

[Minimihi]

On 9/12/2021 at 2:46 PM, Ketsura said:

the game isnt intuitive in dungeons it offers, we dont have articles saying  how it supposed to be on our website. We rely entirely on guides posted by someone or videos. It gets worse because the second option is even harder to get, since nobody is really doing guide videos anymore

Why would there be guides on game's official site? It would be strange to find any of in depth guide in game's official site.

Black Desert Online: no World / Field bosses guides and those will pop even geared players in a few hits.

Archeage: noting about dungeons, raid / open-world  bosses.

FFXIV: did not see any guides while playing it for few weeks.

 

There are plenty of guide sources (videos included), if anyone bothered to look for them. 

It is usually fan made sites, videos, community guides shared in discord servers (for BnS can find all of them listed in r/bladeandsoul).

Easiest of them, literally works for pretty much any game. Just searching for dungeon name with word "guide" in google. I just tired it 😄Did you? Was there no guide how to not wipe in easy mode?

 

It's sad Eckogen moved on. I depended on his video guides a lot.

Edited September 15, 2021 by Minimihi

[Belido]

1 hour ago, lillvargen said:

I've not had any party give up in easy mode, Idm getting new players in party, the more the merrier, just pls listen to advice given by more seasoned player?

I had one in BC, it was early, wo coffee. I got killed by boss 1 mechs, everyone left after, so I had to solo it after. 

[SmokeSauce]

I think people forget that they can easily obtain the gear needed to do any of the dungeons at their current difficulty from Mushins Tower and Outlaw Island after they complete the story. Sure it can be tedious, but it really isn't difficult. From what I see, the current easy-mode dungeons drop gear a tier higher than Mushins Tower, so it seems clear that obtaining gear from Mushins Tower first was the intended way for new players to be able to do their daily dungeons in F8.

 

On a side note, I would like to ask if they could add the ingame gear progression menu again, so we can see what materials we need for higher gear tiers again.

[galuKisaya]

On 9/10/2021 at 2:43 PM, healiha said:

I don't understand why the NC team feel that this was an issue. I've returned on an old character, playing with the gear we're being given through the CtA and easy mode feel totally fine.

 

Seriously people, it seems that you always want someone to carry your ass even in lower difficulty. I've run easy mode dungeons with parties full of ungeared players and we just managed fine.

 

Take the opportunity to learn both how to play your character and the dungeon mechs instead of whining about content being "too hard" for new people.

 

The idea being easy mode should be to learn mechs, proper positioning and of course, learning how to use your fingers. A boss fight which is 120s long isn't hard, it's just what it should be.

 

As an example: I had no idea how TC mechs worked, we spent 1 hours doing the same fight against the 1st boss again and again until everyone managed to do it properly. What's so hard about this? Don't you want to feel some sense of accomplishment? Is being hard carried by geared people so fun?

 

I would really be ashamed if I was asking for such a thing. If you can't even do it right in easy where mechs do not wipe your party, do you really think people will give you the time to learn mechs in normal/hard mode?

 

Sorry, but I really don't get it. Most people can't even follow on a CC when you get a FREAKING HUGE alert telling you what skill to use when someone has used a CC before you. You can even, in most cases, just press "space".

 

////// Edit

 

Beside, there is no point running easy mode for too long as the rewards are poor. You get the accessories (well, not the Silversteel ones) that we'll receive from the CtA.
Get them and start doing NM.

 

Totally agree, the game is not the issue, there are a lot of player that just want kind of mindless resources, doing no effor at all, no mech, bosses getting killed in seconds, they get a wipe and just leave the team looking for a strong team to do everything for them, i dont find the fun part of that, enjoy the game, the mechanics, the amazing gameplay this game has. 

 

NCSOFT Staff, please dont consider some complains as something that the whole comunity wants, becouse its not like that.