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Can the P2W/RNG Upgrades chill out?


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As a whale, who has easily spent somewhere between $10-20k over the years (Yes it's a big gap because I'm really not sure), can all this RNG upgrade and getting closer and closer to P2W stuff stop for the love of god? I don't know if it's KR that's tell you guys to do this because obviously they have the most power or if you guys are trying to kill off NA/EU more than it's already dying but this stuff has to stop if you guys want to keep a lively and happy player base. It's getting ridiculous at this point, and the game is already dying. This is going to kill your game faster, no you're not going to get more players like this, yes people will still spend but those are the people who have no money problems. People who were willing to spend a little here and there to be able to kind of stay up to the whales are getting left behind and it's going to make them want to quit and not spend. You're going to lose more than you gain.

 

Yes, this game is a business, but you can have it be a business while also having more incentives to make people spend while also not screwing over the F2P/Low spenders. I've been defending this game for a while, but now all the stuff that keeps coming out just makes me not want to play anymore. I know me quitting won't hurt too much, but the more this stuff keeps happening the more people will quit. I was hype for the new raid, but the new badges require 60k+ gold to upgrade while being RNG to upgrade and giving you random stages. That's only one badge out of the TWO you get, so you're looking to spend about 120k+ gold for these upgrades, what is the thought process there. We're not KR, stop giving us things like this, this new unity and Ancient system was more than enough to milk your players...Now this? Dumb, completely dumb.

 

@Hime Please shed some light on what's happening. I love this game and I want it to prosper I really do. The combat is unique, the raids are enjoyable, even with the crap optimization I still enjoy it with the 20 FPS I get. Please stop and realize that the game is dying and we need more friendly things not this "if you don't whale you're screwed" type stuff. Please and if it's on KR's side that are making you guys do this, try to fight it please. We just want to enjoy the game, I have no problem spending money as long as it's not getting to where it is right now. BnS has been on a downward slope, but this last update just drove it right down.

Edited by Whyy
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I'll share my limited experience so far. I've been playing for about four weeks, give or take a few days. I started f2p, at level 1, and made it to lvl 60 hm 15 by the time I finished the absolutely horrible story line in four days. My ap was around 1400/1500 at that point. I came across some good players in a clan that helped to show me the ropes and explain a great amount of the systems and how some things worked and now sit at hm 21, nearly 22, with 2300/2400 ap and do an average of 6-8 mil dps (Obviously not enough for end game). I farmed ebon for my first weapon gems, I famed prime for pet gems. I upgraded and got gear via going through dungeons except for my bracelet. I can attest that you can join the 'whales' depending on the time you put in and the amount of farming you are willing to do. 
As for the new content, I am a long ways away from it. I can't even do sc or steel breaker yet (not from a lack of trying), but I can solo the vast majority of daily dungeons hm 16 and below and some of the raids hm 10 and below. I also have a good clan which helps me now. 
I spent a good amount of money on trove, and I can most certainly promise you that there was nothing pay to win about it, as after 2700+ keys not a single super awesome 3 star item made an appearance. 

Now, on a side note, every single mmo out there has a cash shop with useful items. Otherwise they have pay walls with subscriptions so that the company can make money to profit and keep servers up. The cost of running servers for a game like this are absolutely massive. As are the costs for coders, graphic designers, and other staff which keep the game going. Cash shops for games like this are honestly a necessity for them to survive unless you want something like f2p locked to lvl 55 with a sub requirement to play higher levels. Wow does that, and there is a reason for it. 

Does buying stuff from the cash shop make things slightly faster? Yes. There are materials, resets, etc. They don't guarantee you the best or end gear however. 
Does the economy in game with npc merchant need to be fixed to ease the issue of gold for upgrades, yes, most certainly.

But so far, there is absolutely nothing in the cash shop that I have seen that gives anyone a super advantage dependent on the amount of money they spend.
You could spend $20 a month and get a marvelous boost on materials, or you could spend $200 and waste it all on cosmetics. 

If you don't have the money to spend on the game after bills, then you shouldn't spend it. That's called being intelligent and responsible. 

Now, other than the few unity rocks I received from trove, every single stone that I have which has been improved to legendary/awakened was a long, tedious, grind. Gold could be gained easily by farming hard mode dungeons, as could unity stones. Spending several hours for a few days doing that has gained nearly all awakened and some of the higher unity stones after combining them. Yes, it literally took hundreds. 

So far as the end game gear, grind it out. Everyone has to.

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53 minutes ago, Sudhri said:

I spent a good amount of money on trove, and I can most certainly promise you that there was nothing pay to win about it, as after 2700+ keys not a single super awesome 3 star item made an appearance.

Ohhh Poor f2p boy yeaaa sure 2700 keys and you got nothing ofc, except thousands of materials which you could use to boost your character but you are trueee f2p. All you need to grind yeaaaa so easy to say, you need only 10 alts and spend 10 hours a day to not even reach full gear. White knights are soooo funny.

#edit
Oh and thanks for advice about grinding, for sure you did that right? Oh wait a second, you didnt.

Edited by MarjoKun
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1 hour ago, Sudhri said:

I'll share my limited experience so far. I've been playing for about four weeks, give or take a few days. I started f2p, at level 1, and made it to lvl 60 hm 15 by the time I finished the absolutely horrible story line in four days. My ap was around 1400/1500 at that point. I came across some good players in a clan that helped to show me the ropes and explain a great amount of the systems and how some things worked and now sit at hm 21, nearly 22, with 2300/2400 ap and do an average of 6-8 mil dps (Obviously not enough for end game). I farmed ebon for my first weapon gems, I famed prime for pet gems. I upgraded and got gear via going through dungeons except for my bracelet. I can attest that you can join the 'whales' depending on the time you put in and the amount of farming you are willing to do. 
As for the new content, I am a long ways away from it. I can't even do sc or steel breaker yet (not from a lack of trying), but I can solo the vast majority of daily dungeons hm 16 and below and some of the raids hm 10 and below. I also have a good clan which helps me now. 
I spent a good amount of money on trove, and I can most certainly promise you that there was nothing pay to win about it, as after 2700+ keys not a single super awesome 3 star item made an appearance. 

Now, on a side note, every single mmo out there has a cash shop with useful items. Otherwise they have pay walls with subscriptions so that the company can make money to profit and keep servers up. The cost of running servers for a game like this are absolutely massive. As are the costs for coders, graphic designers, and other staff which keep the game going. Cash shops for games like this are honestly a necessity for them to survive unless you want something like f2p locked to lvl 55 with a sub requirement to play higher levels. Wow does that, and there is a reason for it. 

Does buying stuff from the cash shop make things slightly faster? Yes. There are materials, resets, etc. They don't guarantee you the best or end gear however. 
Does the economy in game with npc merchant need to be fixed to ease the issue of gold for upgrades, yes, most certainly.

But so far, there is absolutely nothing in the cash shop that I have seen that gives anyone a super advantage dependent on the amount of money they spend.
You could spend $20 a month and get a marvelous boost on materials, or you could spend $200 and waste it all on cosmetics. 

If you don't have the money to spend on the game after bills, then you shouldn't spend it. That's called being intelligent and responsible. 

Now, other than the few unity rocks I received from trove, every single stone that I have which has been improved to legendary/awakened was a long, tedious, grind. Gold could be gained easily by farming hard mode dungeons, as could unity stones. Spending several hours for a few days doing that has gained nearly all awakened and some of the higher unity stones after combining them. Yes, it literally took hundreds. 

So far as the end game gear, grind it out. Everyone has to.

I'm sorry, but this story to me doesn't make any sense. In just a month you're already scraping HM 22, reached 2400ap, acquired the INSANE AMOUNT OF GOLD AND MATS TO REACH THAT POWER? You must've found some insanely generous whales who carried you thru literally everything and let you have everything. You also spent 2700 keys (+$1300) on trove as soon as it rolled out? Jesus.

Even if this is true, this is unrealistic for the average player to achieve. You just got super lucky.

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6 hours ago, MarjoKun said:

Ohhh Poor f2p boy yeaaa sure 2700 keys and you got nothing ofc, except thousands of materials which you could use to boost your character but you are trueee f2p. All you need to grind yeaaaa so easy to say, you need only 10 alts and spend 10 hours a day to not even reach full gear. White knights are soooo funny.

#edit
Oh and thanks for advice about grinding, for sure you did that right? Oh wait a second, you didnt.

Apparently you didn't read the entire post or comprehend it. I started as f2p, after making my way through the story I decided to go premium. 
By the time I finished the story I was 60 hm15. If you think you need ten alts to grind materials, well I am pretty sure you're wrong. As for the time, yes, 18-20 hours a day of running and re-running dungeons will get you the scales and gold that you need to up your gear. 
Did I get loads of soul stones, moon stones, and orbs from trove, of course, probably around 800 - 900, but if you think that's all you need well. . .I'll leave it at that. 
On a side note, sorry your feelings were hurt.

 

5 hours ago, Dexyn said:

I'm sorry, but this story to me doesn't make any sense. In just a month you're already scraping HM 22, reached 2400ap, acquired the INSANE AMOUNT OF GOLD AND MATS TO REACH THAT POWER? You must've found some insanely generous whales who carried you thru literally everything and let you have everything. You also spent 2700 keys (+$1300) on trove as soon as it rolled out? Jesus.

Even if this is true, this is unrealistic for the average player to achieve. You just got super lucky.


The amount of gold need to upgrade things would be around ten k give or take for the gear I have, but I am no where near end game stuff.  If you think that's a great deal of power then kudos, but I've seen first hand so far that it barely cuts it in dungeons such as hh, hoi, and so forth, and certainly wont cut it in raids like steel breaker and scarlet, let alone the new raids.  I've seen the dps of some of the better geared players running between 40 and 60 mil, I can barely scratch around 6-9. 
Obviously no one should expect anyone to spend the amount I did on trove, but the trove didn't upgrade my gear before hand to where it is now.  Nor did the cash shop, especially since it's fairly random with the daily change. 

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Okey, dont get this wrong but it's kinda funny that you, a new player to the game who has roughly spent a month playing (from what you're saying) claims that you don't actually need alts to farm gold and materials.  

 

That's not the case at all. Running dungeons with Alts is actually 10x more efficient than running the same dungeon with 1 character because of the Daily quests. You don't make any gold at all (unless you get a rare drop/scales and people start bitting gold for it) you only farm some materials up. Also why do you compare yourself with people who are better geared ? You literally say you are a new player, do you presume you can match up to any high tier geared player in just 1 month of playing? 

 

As a result, i can't really understand what the point of your post:

1) To complain because you couldn't get high enough gear (to match the 40-60 mil dps players) because you payed 1.5k Euros on trove?

2) To bash the game because of the insane p2w (i agree with you on that, btw) ?

 

I was playing BnS daily for 2 years straight between 2017-2019 and i can tell you from experience that the best way to make progress is to have a dedicated group of people (static) for raids and to farm you weekly/daily missions.  Alts are also a super good way to make money. And of course, Trove. Trove is worth it though if you have a specific goal for what you need to upgrade, im quite surprised you managed to figure everything out as to what you need to buy and focus on to use Trove efficiently to your advantage. 

 

This game is heavily pay to win. However, you can still play casually and still have a decent gear, if you want to go hardcore and be top-end gear prepare to waste half of your fortune on it. That's pretty much it.

 

 

 

Edited by Exuberance
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This is the saddest thread I've ever read. If you got to almost hm22 in 4 weeks then you have issues. I've been playing this game since it's western release and I can tell you that getting gear being a whale doesn't mean ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤. Most fun I've ever had was when I was running dungeons with friends and laughing my ass off, same goes for raids. Grinding each day to upgrade each accessory like a madman was really fun, grinding 100 runs for new accessories, doing hardmode for the ap achievement. Sadly the game's current state is questionable, I'm not surprised people are just throwing thousands of $ within their first month of playing. SAD.

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On 3/23/2021 at 12:18 PM, Sudhri said:

I'll share my limited experience so far. I've been playing for about four weeks, give or take a few days. I started f2p, at level 1, and made it to lvl 60 hm 15 by the time I finished the absolutely horrible story line in four days. My ap was around 1400/1500 at that point. I came across some good players in a clan that helped to show me the ropes and explain a great amount of the systems and how some things worked and now sit at hm 21, nearly 22, with 2300/2400 ap and do an average of 6-8 mil dps (Obviously not enough for end game). I farmed ebon for my first weapon gems, I famed prime for pet gems. I upgraded and got gear via going through dungeons except for my bracelet. I can attest that you can join the 'whales' depending on the time you put in and the amount of farming you are willing to do. 
As for the new content, I am a long ways away from it. I can't even do sc or steel breaker yet (not from a lack of trying), but I can solo the vast majority of daily dungeons hm 16 and below and some of the raids hm 10 and below. I also have a good clan which helps me now. 
I spent a good amount of money on trove, and I can most certainly promise you that there was nothing pay to win about it, as after 2700+ keys not a single super awesome 3 star item made an appearance. 

Now, on a side note, every single mmo out there has a cash shop with useful items. Otherwise they have pay walls with subscriptions so that the company can make money to profit and keep servers up. The cost of running servers for a game like this are absolutely massive. As are the costs for coders, graphic designers, and other staff which keep the game going. Cash shops for games like this are honestly a necessity for them to survive unless you want something like f2p locked to lvl 55 with a sub requirement to play higher levels. Wow does that, and there is a reason for it. 

Does buying stuff from the cash shop make things slightly faster? Yes. There are materials, resets, etc. They don't guarantee you the best or end gear however. 
Does the economy in game with npc merchant need to be fixed to ease the issue of gold for upgrades, yes, most certainly.

But so far, there is absolutely nothing in the cash shop that I have seen that gives anyone a super advantage dependent on the amount of money they spend.
You could spend $20 a month and get a marvelous boost on materials, or you could spend $200 and waste it all on cosmetics. 

If you don't have the money to spend on the game after bills, then you shouldn't spend it. That's called being intelligent and responsible. 

Now, other than the few unity rocks I received from trove, every single stone that I have which has been improved to legendary/awakened was a long, tedious, grind. Gold could be gained easily by farming hard mode dungeons, as could unity stones. Spending several hours for a few days doing that has gained nearly all awakened and some of the higher unity stones after combining them. Yes, it literally took hundreds. 

So far as the end game gear, grind it out. Everyone has to.

BRUH straight to CUT THE 🐃💩, 4 weeks old and have so many knowledge about game, you decide to buy 2700 trove keys aka 27x55$ =1485$ as a 4 weeks old player ?

Bruh 

Bruhhhh

Bruhhhhhh come on, we are not idiots here, trust me, nobody defend Ncsoft .

Also TIPS for 4 weeks old player that your "clan" didn't gave you >

- with that money you could buy 3-4 you know what exactly 


 

 

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19 hours ago, Exuberance said:

Okey, dont get this wrong but it's kinda funny that you, a new player to the game who has roughly spent a month playing (from what you're saying) claims that you don't actually need alts to farm gold and materials.  

 

That's not the case at all. Running dungeons with Alts is actually 10x more efficient than running the same dungeon with 1 character because of the Daily quests. You don't make any gold at all (unless you get a rare drop/scales and people start bitting gold for it) you only farm some materials up. Also why do you compare yourself with people who are better geared ? You literally say you are a new player, do you presume you can match up to any high tier geared player in just 1 month of playing? 

 

As a result, i can't really understand what the point of your post:

1) To complain because you couldn't get high enough gear (to match the 40-60 mil dps players) because you payed 1.5k Euros on trove?

2) To bash the game because of the insane p2w (i agree with you on that, btw) ?

 

I was playing BnS daily for 2 years straight between 2017-2019 and i can tell you from experience that the best way to make progress is to have a dedicated group of people (static) for raids and to farm you weekly/daily missions.  Alts are also a super good way to make money. And of course, Trove. Trove is worth it though if you have a specific goal for what you need to upgrade, im quite surprised you managed to figure everything out as to what you need to buy and focus on to use Trove efficiently to your advantage. 

 

This game is heavily pay to win. However, you can still play casually and still have a decent gear, if you want to go hardcore and be top-end gear prepare to waste half of your fortune on it. That's pretty much it.

 

 

 

Actually, e. fleet supply chain has a pretty decent coin drop per mob, much higher than the upper tier dungeons per mob. At 50 + copper per random trash mob.  A five hundred or so an hour adds up after a while, plus the mini bosses. There are ways to farm coin. I wont disagree that the dungeons are fun and worth while with clan mates and friends, but I find that since I have all day farming gold in an easy manner is quite efficient. 

Obviously I doubt that anyone would get gear enough to match the top players no matter how much they spend on trove.
I obviously acknowledge that you can get materials such as scales on occasion via the daily f10, though I don't think it's going to advance your gear as much as everyone seems to say. Five to ten scale might make a small difference, but since I am able to solo cc on down I don't see why farming the dungeon alone nine of ten times to get the same amount over the course of a few hours would make that much of a time difference. As for raids, I can solo some, others I join my clan in when they do them. I would say that time might be my critical factor, being retired I literally have all day to play if I so desire. 

I actually find the game rather enjoyable, well, minus the story line. Bit too dark and tragic for my tastes, but it's basically over since the lake isn't restored. 

 

 

17 hours ago, Santa Anna said:

BRUH straight to CUT THE 🐃💩, 4 weeks old and have so many knowledge about game, you decide to buy 2700 trove keys aka 27x55$ =1485$ as a 4 weeks old player ?

Bruh 

Bruhhhh

Bruhhhhhh come on, we are not idiots here, trust me, nobody defend Ncsoft .

Also TIPS for 4 weeks old player that your "clan" didn't gave you >

- with that money you could buy 3-4 you know what exactly 
 

Ah, knowledge about the game, yeah that typically comes from asking people things and reading. Would I say that I know a good amount about the game, no, not at all. But I have learned enough so far as from my clan mates on how I should spec my gear to do damage and to be able to solo a great many things should I have to. 

As for what you're referring to buying, I honestly have no clue. I might suggest using detailed sentences to clarify. 
On a side note, I fail to see how this mmo is any different from any other, aside from controls and story line. Mabinogi, wow, ddo, swotr, etc. You will pay for things you want, cosmetic or p2w. If you don't want it then you don't spend money on it. 


As for Ncsoft, well I use to play city of heroes when they were running that. Guess what, some of the mechanics for this game are pretty similar. While they may be trying to make money, it seems to me like people are simply trying to get something for nothing. But, I could be wrong. If you dislike the game or company so much then just leave. No one is forcing you to play, pay, or stay. 
 

17 hours ago, EternalLoneR said:

This is the saddest thread I've ever read. If you got to almost hm22 in 4 weeks then you have issues. I've been playing this game since it's western release and I can tell you that getting gear being a whale doesn't mean ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤. Most fun I've ever had was when I was running dungeons with friends and laughing my ass off, same goes for raids. Grinding each day to upgrade each accessory like a madman was really fun, grinding 100 runs for new accessories, doing hardmode for the ap achievement. Sadly the game's current state is questionable, I'm not surprised people are just throwing thousands of $ within their first month of playing. SAD.

I got to level 60 hm15 in four days, simply by doing the yellow, orange, and some blue quests and dungeons. Then there was of course the chocolate event, which allowed me to get to  unity 91, I was quite happy about that. 
As for grinding dungeons, I do that. Slowly working my way through each one. So far I'm at twenty + runs for the vast majority of the lower end ones, and breaking just past fifteen for the upper tier ones. 
I also run dailies with my clan, and weekly raids with them since I joined them. I already hold some of the achievements for increased hp, ap, dmg, and so forth. I took care of the lower end ones after I finished the main story line.  I've also managed to acquire several outfits and collections from farming, which of course add more random stats to ones character, but take quite a few runs. Still working on the outfits from naryu labrynth, I think I'm over twenty runs now with only one piece from the two sets of outfits. 
I fail to see what the issue is with raising my level as I have, as in order to do so I've also had to farm for things to constantly upgrade my gear. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the hm level doesn't determine how well you do in dungeons, raids, etc. And having to ask about, read about, and watch videos on mechanics is a must before attempting any new dungeon. Thankfully, I have a helpful group of people to assist me and show me how to do things more efficiently. They have years playing this game, and quite honestly I wouldn't be where I am now had I not met them. 

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You play 4 months and you bought 2700 keys on trove. This exclude you from the possibility to say anything about farming in bns. You dont know what the real suffering is for players f2p, especially those who played from the beginning. Play 1-2 years more without paying and then let us know how fun farming is.

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4 hours ago, MarjoKun said:

You play 4 months and you bought 2700 keys on trove. This exclude you from the possibility to say anything about farming in bns. You dont know what the real suffering is for players f2p, especially those who played from the beginning. Play 1-2 years more without paying and then let us know how fun farming is.

I don't see how it excludes me from talking about things I do. 
Auto fishing = materials while sleeping
Panda refuge bit in moon water = materials
Auto farming in prime wild = materials
Running through areas while looking for the highest coin drop from trash mobs and using that to farm coin. 

While I haven't been playing for 2 years or more, I would expect some one who has, free to play or not, to be vastly above my gear and level. I would also expect them to have figured out a great deal more about the game itself, such as farming locations, how to spec and gear a character, and to be able to work with their clan on raids and dungeons to farm harder materials and continue to move forward. When I started the game; after reading reviews, most of which were praising the game and rather inaccurate, I realized that like any mmo I would have to put in at a bare minimum of 4+ hours a day to make any significant advancement progress. 
Obviously, a casual f2p player with limited time may not be able to do this, thus they could turn to the subscription for a small boost in daily things received or drop a one time payment for a bundle. Will it get you to some amazing level, no. But it would help a little. 
Otherwise you will have to grind for hours at a time once you learn or are told about the areas and ways to get things. If you run into a good clan, then all the better for you, at least in my experience so far a good clan can expand your knowledge and guide you in the right direction while helping you advance your gear through multiple dungeon runs each day or what not. I wont say that farming is minimal, exciting, or not needed. It really is boring and grueling, but that's how it is in any mmo unless you can by a full max level and gear pack, and yes some mmos offer that. Honestly, other than the boredom of spending 4 or 5 hours in an area to farm a few hundred gold, I don't see the issue with it. There could be an npc game world economy, but that obviously wont work with the 1 copper per item and 1000 item sell limit each day. Not to mention the 40 quest limit for daily quests. Yes, I repeatedly hit the daily limit on both parts. 
I am sorry if it's causing you suffering though, it should be fun although grindy. 

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I simply can't imagine spending 10-20K on this game and then having the gall to come onto this site and complain about P2W and RNG.  YOU sir are the problem.  NC is just milking you to the detriment of the rest of us.  YOU know, I know it, they know it.  You are addicted, at our expense.

 

Edited by Tufa
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To be honest i could not care less about "p2w"...since its your choice if you want to spend money or noit. But what always heavily annoys me are rng upgrades.

Guess we can expect everything to have rng upgrades like kr....

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Posted (edited)
On 3/27/2021 at 6:20 PM, Tufa said:

I simply can't imagine spending 10-20K on this game and then having the gall to come onto this site and complain about P2W and RNG.  YOU sir are the problem.  NC is just milking you to the detriment of the rest of us.  YOU know, I know it, they know it.  You are addicted, at our expense.

 

I can understand how you can think like this, but let me explain why you're not 100% right. Lets say I spent the 20k that I said I could have spent, that's about $11 a day over 5 years. Is that a lot, I would say yes but also depends on who you talk to, some people spend way more than that a day on things daily but that's neither here nor there. I was also spending this much money because I enjoyed the game and wanted to support the company while also helping myself gear faster. I liked how our upgrade system worked and the fact it wasn't RNG like KR and how the game was going. I'm upset now that we're getting RNG upgrades from KR that we were never supposed to see due to our region being free to play while KR was pay to play, but I don't know if you even knew that. As well as I spent 10-20k over 5 years, so a low 5 figures. I know people who have spent 5 figures this last week on BnS, so if me spending at most 20k over 5 years is being the problem then by all means blame me, but I think there are people with a lot deeper pockets that are really the problem feeding these types of issues. People spend 4-5 figures a month no problem, I doubt me spending roughly $330 a month over 5 years is the problem, but I could see how it's easy to point blame at me. 

 

Edit for clarity: I'm upset with the new badges from raid which has KR upgrades which we should have never seen. We haven't seen this type of upgrading throughout 5 years and just got it now. There is zero reason for it as our regions are different. That's what I'm upset about.

Edited by Whyy
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18 hours ago, USER X986 said:

In one sentence: As long as it works, why should you change something?

It's not working though. Sure in the short term there's some money coming in, but there is always money coming in. These upgrade paths will kill the game faster than it's already dying. As well as make people who were willing to spend a little here and there not want to spend because the upgrades are now RNG. They are going to lose more than they gain.

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